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The word "Shaheed" and dead Indian soldiers

Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam etc all religion have some sort of term to describe brave soldiers deaths and sacrifice of life, But unfortunately Indian constitution and Army Act or regulations do not recognize any of those terms.

at personal level in India, Muslims or Sikhs can call their loved once , sons, brothers or friends as Shaheed or veerghati or whatever they want but state and army has no distinction, all are casualties of war, conflict or accident.

India Muslims and Sikhs are minorities and do not dominate or control or have this representation in constitution and Armed forces. personally they can call whatever but officially at state level and media is not suppose to, because they have to follow constitution and Army regulations.

My understanding from all this rolla rappa.



does your state and Army recognize these terms?

My state and Army are not authorities on recognizing terms - the state does not recognize French as an official language - would people in Pondicherry stop speaking French?
 
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My state and Army are not authorities on recognizing terms - the state does not recognize French as an official language - would people in Pondicherry stop speaking French?
you keep saying it, but your Army and state says NO .
This is what i said in my post what you quoted. so agreeing with me but do not want to admit it.
 
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Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam etc all religion have some sort of term to describe brave soldiers deaths and sacrifice of life, But unfortunately Indian constitution and Army Act or regulations do not recognize any of those terms.

at personal level in India, Muslims or Sikhs can call their loved once , sons, brothers or friends as Shaheed or veerghati or whatever they want but state and army has no distinction, all are casualties of war, conflict or accident.

India Muslims and Sikhs are minorities and do not dominate or control or have this representation in constitution and Armed forces. personally they can call whatever but officially at state level and media is not suppose to, because they have to follow constitution and Army regulations.

My understanding from all this rolla rappa.

The point of contention is the use of the word Shaheed for dead hindi soldiers.

The "Muslims" soldiers serving in the hindi armed forces can still somehow justify, although deviantly, the use of this word Shaheed due to it's very obvious religious connotations. Why would their media or the people call their dead hindu soldiers Shaheed? Surely the much touted "ancient history and religion" must have produced some sort of concept of martyrdom with a specific term for their dead?
 
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The point of contention is the use of the word Shaheed for dead hindi soldiers.

The "Muslims" soldiers serving in the hindi armed forces can still somehow justify, although deviantly, the use of this word Shaheed due to it's very obvious religious connotations. Why would their media or the people call their dead hindu soldiers Shaheed? Surely the much touted "ancient history and religion" must have produced some sort of concept of martyrdom with a specific term for their dead?
this is what i said, Muslim and Sikhs can call them Shaheed on personal level but State, ministries, media and any state governed and follower of state policies can not.

Media calling them Shaheed is wrong, and they are not following state rules.

Concept might be there but not adopted by State and Army.
 
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Its an Arabic word and it has nothing to do with Pakistan as Pakistan is not an Arabic race.
India has all rights reserved of this word since the mugal era. India is using this word for independence heros since before pakistan took birth on India's land.
its a Quranic word and specific for the Muslim . do you believe in shahadat?
 
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We would keep fatwas anywhere including where sun doesn't shine. But the thing is we would keep reminding you of how fake you and your nationalism is.

The thing is you are free to use Islamic terms for your dead but then we are also free to mock you and your dead for calling themselves shaheed even though they are far from it.We would laugh at the fact that your dead didn't get a proper title of their own after laying down their life and got a title which is complete anti thesis of the cause that they died for.

We both have options and we would definitely apply our option whenever every single time. Hope you don't whine then. :)

Sometimes I really do not understand this inferiority complex of Indians.

The constant delusional state they live in is mind boggling.

I fail to understand how giving a pure Muslim title to deceased hindu soldiers, hence a desperate effort to somehow making them equivalent to Muslims soldiers, will elevate their stature?

This is totally against hindu teachings these fanatics sitting in govt are so eager to implement everywhere in India.

Chanakya tactics?
 
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Sufism had a great impact on United Punjab and Northern India. People followed Pirs irrespective of whether they converted to Islam or not. Another word commonly used is "RABB" Sikhs use it liberally and I don't see Pakistanis raising a hue and cry over it.
It has nothing to do with sufism. Indians never used this term until some years back ever since pakistan started losing soldiers in wot and news headlines about departed soldiers would appear calling them shaheeds to honor them.

It was a recent indian media phenomena that indians started after watching how much worth and respect muslims and pakistanis gave to shaheed soldiers.

Also those who say shaheed is an arabic word,then word shaheed in arabic has a different sense to the word shaheed mentioned in Quran, in arabic shaheed is a word with a certain meaning. But in quran Shaheed is used as a CONCEPT.


In arabic it means witness. Now if anyone in the world wants to use word shaheed lets say even indians they would use it for witness, which is just a word used by one language soewker borrowing from another one just like indians use english words or loanwords.

But shaheed in quran means someone WHO DIED AS A WITNESS TO THE ONE NESS OF ALLAH and gave his life fighting for protecting islam.

In quranic concept it means that YOU STOOD WITNESS TO ONENESS OF ALLAH and WHILE DOING THAT YPU GAVE YOUR LIFE FOR HIM. The witness here is ONLY AND ONLY IF you believe in Allahs oneness and that prophet mohammad is his last prophet and you believe in quran.

The CONCEPT OF SHAHEED from quran stands for a comolete monotheistic faith and any hindu or indian claiming to be shaheed or wanting to steal this word is trying to say he or his dead believed in ALLAH and his ONESNESS.
 
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What is the meaning of Shaheed?
It definitely isn’t always Martyr if Indians think that.
The word’s etymology is generally focused on being a witness. The idea being that those who die are witness to the acceptance of Allah's path.

Now since the bigotry now taught in India tends to conceptualize Allah as an Arabic concept it simply cannot be that anyone besides a Muslim willingly accepts it.

Regarding the ridiculous claim of adpoting the word, it is utter nonsense to think that somehow a nation 70 years young decided to adopt a term used for thousands of years overnight.
The word was used by all Invading armies from Arab and Persian Muslim rulers and the cultural influence stuck around to form part of the language.
Somehow claiming to adopt the word to another usage does not equate to its use for thousands of years that predates the 70 odd years Bharat has existed.

So clearly the word is no longer in context to current Indian Hindu beliefs.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/shahid
http://translation.babylon-software.com/english/shaheed/

A shahid is considered one whose place in Paradise is promised according to these verses in the Quran:

The Quran, chapter 3 (Al Imran), verse 169–170:
Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. — translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

The Quran, chapter 9 (At-Tawba), verse 111:

Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur´an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. — translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

The Quranic passage that follows is the source of the concept of Muslim martyrs being promised Paradise:

The Quran, chapter 22 (Al-Hajj), verse 58:

Those who leave their homes in the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will Allah bestow verily a goodly Provision: Truly Allah is He Who bestows the best provision. — translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

Hadiths
The importance of faith is highlighted in the following hadith:

It has been narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Who seeks martyrdom with sincerity shall get its reward, though he may not achieve it.

— Collected by Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj, "Sahih Muslim"[4]
It is thus not the outcome that determines the placement in Heaven but rather the intention.

Nonetheless, Paradise for a Shahid is a popular concept in the Islamic tradition according to Hadith, and the attainment of this title is honorific.

The prophet Muhammad is reported to have said these words about martyrdom:

By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[5]
The Prophet said, "Nobody who enters Paradise likes to go back to the world even if he got everything on the Earth, except a Mujahid who wishes to return to the world so that he may be martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives (from Allah).

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[6]
Several hadith also indicate the nature of a Shahid's life in Paradise. Shahids are thought to attain the highest level of Paradise, the Paradise of al-Firdous.

Haritha was martyred on the day (of the battle) of Badr, and he was a young boy then. His mother came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! You know how dear Haritha is to me. If he is in Paradise, I shall remain patient, and hope for reward from Allah, but if it is not so, then you shall see what I do?" He said, "May Allah be merciful to you! Have you lost your senses? Do you think there is only one Paradise? There are many Paradises and your son is in the (most superior) Paradise of Al-Firdaus.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[7]
Furthermore, Samura narrated:

The Prophet said, "Last night two men came to me (in a dream) and made me ascend a tree and then admitted me into a better and superior house, better of which I have never seen. One of them said, 'this house is the house of martyrs.'

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[8]
There are at least five different kinds of martyrs according to hadith.

Allah's Apostle said, "Five are regarded as martyrs: They are those who die because of plague, abdominal disease, drowning or a falling building etc., and the martyrs in Allah's cause.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[9]

One who dies protecting his property is also considered a martyr according to Hadith:

I heard the Prophet saying, "Whoever is killed while protecting his property then he is a martyr.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[10]

While the Qur'an does not indicate much about martyrs' death and funeral, the hadith provides some information on this topic. For example, martyrs are to be buried two in one grave in their blood, without being washed or having a funeral prayer held for them. The following Hadith highlight this:

The Prophet collected every two martyrs of Uhud in one piece of cloth, then he would ask, "Which of them had (knew) more of the Quran?" When one of them was pointed out for him, he would put that one first in the grave and say, "I will be a witness on these on the Day of Resurrection." He ordered them to be buried with their blood on their bodies and they were neither washed nor was a funeral prayer offered for them.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[11]

So it is 100% Islamic terminology used by Muslims only. Now tell me where are you standing?. By calling them Shaheed means you are calling them Muslims, are you agree on that?

This begs the question that why a person who deliberately sacrifices his life for Allah is called a Shaheed, that is a witness, one who sees....?

We also know that English word 'Martyr' has root in Greek word μάρτυς, mártys, "witness"; stem μάρτυρ-, mártyr- (Wikipedia); So for a person who voluntarily sacrifices his/her life for his/her beliefs..... An all together different civilization/people used the word "witness".
Is this just a coincidence...?

Now next logical question is what a Shahid/Witness see?... To be a witness one has know or see something... So What a Shahid sees at the time of his death? Which makes him/her so special.?

A little trivia..
Has anyone seen the movie Martyrs 2008, French-Canadian psychological horror drama film, IMBD reference http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1029234/ and Wiki page of movie where you can read the plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_(2008_film), wherein a cult tries to create 'Martyrs' so that it can know that Martyrs see......
 
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Its so funny Hindus virulently hate muslims but Allah does things in strange way sam epeople who are enemy of Allah and islam and who violently deny oneness of Allah and his existence are now desperate to use a concept from Quran which only stands to verify ONENESS of ALLAH.

What better slaps hindus could have gotten. Willingly stealing concept from islam which they hate from bottom of their hearts LMAO
 
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Its a profession under secular constitution not a religious duty.

In Pakistan everyones a shaheed because its a islamic country based on islamic principles.

I do not understand why a secular society become all worked up with religious rhetoric.

India should be balkanised if the army is facing such ill discipline.
 
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Come on man. Don't be this stubborn and debate just for the sake of it. Invent a new word for your soldiers. You have dozens of languages in India.

I am sure you would find a suitable word in them.

I think Veerghatti is the word in Hindi language as equivalent to Shaheed word in Urdu/Arabic language.
 
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Hallucinating Hindu now claiming his soldiers to be 'shaheed' ... :omghaha:


All this to pump up their soldiers ... what a bunch of fools who think that using 'shaheed' will prompt more of their (starving) soldiers to die for Bharat maata.
 
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Its an Arabic word and it has nothing to do with Pakistan as Pakistan is not an Arabic race.
India has all rights reserved of this word since the mugal era. India is using this word for independence heros since before pakistan took birth on India's land.
Pakistan is India.
 
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Pappu - Pakistan has no copyright over using Quranic words.




Sure, it is an Arabic word. So? Lots of loan words in many languages.

We do , mera munna.. we do as Muslims... you dont as a hindu.

Unless you convert and belive the concept of sacrificing your life for Prophet Mohammad PBUH’s religion and Allah.
 
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Arabic word
True. But it comes bit rich from Indian's who daily accuse Pakistani's of being "wannabe Arabs" but then in about turn use Arabic words drawn from Islamic concepts. Kind of perverse?

I get it. Your also trying to be Arabs. Carry on .......
 
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