The US is like a warzone, another shooting: 10 dead, 10 wounded in shooting at Santa Fe HS

[Dalit]

Apparently the perpetrator was a bully victim. Shades of Columbine. There should be better measures for spotting potential perpetrators before tragedies happen.

He wasn't a bully victim. He had extreme right wing tendencies. Also, he killed in a targeted fashion. He spared some and killed others.

 

[siegecrossbow]

He wasn't a bully victim. He had extreme right wing tendencies. Also, he killed in a targeted fashion. He spared some and killed others.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/born-kill-texas-shooter-quiet-teenager-trench-coat-022856836.html

SANTA FE, Texas (Reuters) - He was a quiet Texas teenager who danced with his Greek church group and played football. He had a passion for symbology and Japanese history.

On Friday, authorities said, 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtzis put on a trenchcoat, walked into an art class at his high school in Santa Fe, near Houston, and shot nine fellow students and a teacher dead.

There were no red flags beforehand to indicate that Pagourtzis was headed for trouble, Governor Greg Abbott said. But social media and journal entries revealed a young man infatuated with guns, determined to kill and to die.

A Facebook post on April 30 showed a black T-shirt with the words "Born to Kill" printed in white. The Facebook page has since been taken down.

Abbott told reporters that entries in the teen's personal journals, seized by police, showed, "Not only did he want to commit the shooting, but he wanted to commit suicide after the shooting."

But, Abbott said, "He didn't have the courage to commit suicide."

He said the suspected gunman, a junior at Santa Fe High School, was armed with a shotgun and a .38 revolver, both taken from his father, possibly without the parent's knowledge.

Pictures of a Greek festival affiliated with the Assumption of the Virgin Mary Greek Orthodox Church in Galveston showed Dimitrios, the son of a Greek immigrant, dancing with other costumed performers. The pictures were archived on the church's Facebook page. Dimitrios was identified in a photo caption.

One fellow student said Pagourtzis was especially fascinated with Japanese imperialism and samurai culture, and interested in mystical and military symbols like the German Iron Cross and hammer and sickle he wore as pins on his clothing.

Classmates remembered that he often wore a trench coat, similar to the one authorities said the shooter used to conceal the firearms carried into the school.

One student said Pagourtzis kept to himself and "never really talked to other people." But Clayton George, 16, a sophomore who played football with Pagourtzis this year, said he regularly spoke with him at practice.

"He was one of the nicest guys on the football team. Always easy to talk to," he told Reuters. But, he said, Pagourtzis would sometimes get "poked" by his teammates in locker room horseplay.

Pagourtzis was held without bond on Friday, authorities said, at the Galveston County Jail after being charged with capital murder.

(Corrects typo in paragraph 8 to say "Greek")

Sounds like an anti-social nutjob to me. Surprisingly, he was part of the football team. That's very unusual for a self-claimed bully victim.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/born-kill-texas-shooter-quiet-teenager-trench-coat-022856836.html



Sounds like an anti-social nutjob to me. Surprisingly, he was part of the football team. That's very unusual for a self-claimed bully victim.

It would be interesting to look into how many of these shooters don't have siblings. If you are friendless at school and come home to a quiet empty home with nobody to chat with and then to top it off end up being bullied that may cause people to crack.

Stop being stupid.

Considering I'm sure he figured she was an Indian.

 

[Dalit]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/born-kill-texas-shooter-quiet-teenager-trench-coat-022856836.html



Sounds like an anti-social nutjob to me. Surprisingly, he was part of the football team. That's very unusual for a self-claimed bully victim.

America is digging its own grave. It is karma striking from every nook and corner. This was bound to happen to a nation that has so much blood on its hands. The gun crime will only increase in the coming months and years. America is a divided place where gun owners are constantly brawling with the opposition. America is like a big bubble waiting to implode. Every month there is some guy snapping in some public place. Schools, universities, shopping malls, cinemas etc. aren't safe places.

If the shooter was anti-social it means he was not the usual suspect. That should be even more worrisome. It means that any person with access to a gun can simply go on a killing spree.

 

[siegecrossbow]

It would be interesting to look into how many of these shooters don't have siblings. If you are friendless at school and come home to a quiet empty home with nobody to chat with and then to top it off end up being bullied that may cause people to crack.



Considering I'm sure he figured she was an Indian.

I agree. We need to start profiling these types of people for common patterns. If the FBI could apply behavioral analysis to serial killers, they can do the same to school shooters.

 

[Dalit]

I agree. We need to start profiling these types of people for common patterns. If the FBI could apply behavioral analysis to serial killers, they can do the same to school shooters.

That sounds like another big brother database in the making. Suits America quite well. However, is it really doable? Also, how can you possibly detain a person on mere suspicion or online activity? America is filled to the brim with such nasty people. Every gun owner becomes a potential suspect.

Another important question is how do you begin to profile? It is impossible to profile on a set of patterns. You can profile the usual suspects, but what about this shooter and many like him? He was anti-social, quiet etc. Is that enough suspicion to profile a person or arrest him? Besides, profiling on such a massive scale would require an enormous amount of resources. Since America has made profiling Muslims their first priority how are they going to find additional resources to focus on homegrown gun violence?

This shooter didn't even own guns. He stole his father's weapons. It is that easy.

The bitter truth is that the gun violence in America has many complex underlying reasons. It is white angry privileged Americans who feel betrayed by everyone. Violence is the only way out. There are so many other reasons for this untamed aggression, but I have given you the absolute crux.

The crux of the matter is that white America is angry at everyone and everything. As long as white victim mentality isn't addressed this will go on. You can thank Trump for engineering the white victim mentality. Remember the violent election campaign rallies? Trump has, intentionally or unintentionally, given the white angry underachieving American the license to extract revenge through gun violence.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I agree. We need to start profiling these types of people for common patterns. If the FBI could apply behavioral analysis to serial killers, they can do the same to school shooters.

Certainly makes more sense than the stupid "right wing" clueless gibberish the OP is muttering.

 

[siegecrossbow]

That sounds like another big brother database in the making. Suits America quite well. However, is it really doable? Also, how can you possibly detain a person on mere suspicion or online activity? America is filled to the brim with such nasty people. Every gun owner becomes a potential suspect.

Another important question is how do you begin to profile? It is impossible to profile on a set of patterns. You can profile on the usual suspects, but what about this shooter and many like him? He was anti-social, quiet etc. Is that enough suspicion to profile a person or arrest him? Besides, profiling on such a massive scale would require an enormous amounts of resources. Since America has made profiling Muslims their first priority how are they going to find additional resources to focus on homegrown gun violence?

This shooter didn't even own guns. He stole his father's weapons. It is that easy.

The bitter truth is that the gun violence in America has many complex underlying reasons. It is white angry privileged Americans who feel betrayed by everyone. Violence is the only way out. There are so many other reasons for this untamed aggression, but I have given you the absolute crux.

The crux of the matter is that white America is angry at everyone and everything.

Behavioral science worked for serial killers. You should look into the studies of John E. Douglas. Serial killers became a problem in the late 60s and 70s just as school shooters are becoming a problem now.

 

[Dalit]

Behavioral science worked for serial killers. You should look into the studies of John E. Douglas. Serial killers became a problem in the late 60s and 70s just as school shooters are becoming a problem now.

Serial killers don't snap from time to time. Occasional white victims do. There is no pattern to people who are normal one day and lost the other.

No amount of pattern analysis can resolve this colossal problem. Trump has unleashed ugly nationalism. As long as white Americans continue to believe that they are victims and the other side is the enemy there can be no solution to this problem.

White America has been fed to target Muslims. That is where the real threat lies to the Homeland. The gun violence is just a random occurrence to the Americans. How are you going to convince the other half who are in denial and believe that guns aren't even the problem?

America is dealing with a colossal gun crisis. Americans are inherently violent and guns worsen that problem.

 

[Zibago]

He used legal guns of his father to do that

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I am not sure which place is safer, the US or Iraq/Syria.

If you ask me personally, I would rather travel to Iraq/Syria than to the USA.

Of course I would rather avoid going to both places if possible.

But if I was forced to choose then I would definitely rather go to Iraq/Syria. At least Iraq/Syria have places of great historical significance to humankind, since they were the site of the ancient Mesopotamian civilization.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The bottom line of the problem is mental health care, a normal person will not decided to go kill a bunch of people one day, people who kill in this number most likely have some degree of mental issue. If these kept uncheck, then these people will become homicidal, and whether or not using gun to kill is beside the point, if I meant to kill people, even if I do not have access to firearms, I would still be able to kill a lot of people using stuff ranging from Cars, Knife or even poison gas (you can make poison gas from household ingredient)

Mental issue play a major role in all these shooting.

You can forbid people to own gun, but you can't forbid people to go crazy, and once a person suffer with mental problem, and it left unchecked, they will do stupid thing like this.

Whether or not they have access to weapon is beside the point, if I don't kill by firearms, I could as easily kill by knife, automotive or even explosive or chemical.

In my opinion, US need to revamp their mental health care system.

"Commitment to action" is not a simple thing, even for those so called "Mental health patient"
A very minority of them, may, "Think" to make such "Actions".

Having a Gun/Rifle and a Knife, is not the same, even for "Unstable ppl".
When using a Knife, you have to prepare yourself to "Feel" the action, of penetrating a body... feeling the warm blood on your hands... Listen to the sound it made when you can't go in anymore, screams, and having the possibility to have a victim who could "Answer" back (That is the most "scary" situation for a "Mental Health patient" etc...
While with a Gun...all those feelings that are most a time, what keep" those specific ppl" To Not act is, with Gun...no more.

You don't have to "Feel", you just need to accept the use of the "Trigger", therefore the "Legal" Consequences of your act.
And, the amount of casualties is Years lower(With a Knife)...

As for The Mental Healthcare, The first thing for the US, is to make it "Free" or at least "Very" affordable.
US Mental structures are not bad, they are not the best, when it comes to "International" standards, but they are "Good" Enough. And the Follow-up Patient is also lacking, but mostly because of lack of funds, since the Ecosystem is already there and working.

 

[Max]

Gun lobbiests should be declared international terrorists under UN.

 

[jhungary]

"Commitment to action" is not a simple thing, even for those so called "Mental health patient"
A very minority of them, may, "Think" to make such "Actions".

Having a Gun/Rifle and a Knife, is not the same, even for "Unstable ppl".
When using a Knife, you have to prepare yourself to "Feel" the action, of penetrating a body... feeling the warm blood on your hands... Listen to the sound it made when you can't go in anymore, screams, and having the possibility to have a victim who could "Answer" back (That is the most "scary" situation for a "Mental Health patient" etc...
While with a Gun...all those feelings that are most a time, what keep" those specific ppl" To Not act is, with Gun...no more.

You don't have to "Feel", you just need to accept the use of the "Trigger", therefore the "Legal" Consequences of your act.
And, the amount of casualties is Years lower(With a Knife)...

As for The Mental Healthcare, The first thing for the US, is to make it "Free" or at least "Very" affordable.
US Mental structures are not bad, they are not the best, when it comes to "International" standards, but they are "Good" Enough. And the Follow-up Patient is also lacking, but mostly because of lack of funds, since the Ecosystem is already there and working.

I do know how it feel killing by firearms and by knife, I am probably one of the few people here that actually did kill a person with both firearms and bayonet in war. I know how it feels.

What you are describing is what happened immediately before you pull the trigger and immediately you stick a knife in someone. The "threshold" is not as big as the one that, when you make a decision somebody is going to die today.

Problem with people view with firearms (I will refer to gun from now on) is that it's not upclose and personal, where you detached from the reality of someone is going to die and killed by you. The problem is, this is already accounted when you decided to kill in the first place, once a person have decided he or she will kill someone, the choice of knifes and guns are only the weapon of choice.

Think of it this way, if you are of sound mental health, will you increase your urge to kill when I handed you a loaded gun? If I hand a knife and a gun to a normal person, they won't say "ah, I got a gun now, I gotta shoot someone" People who, on the other hand already have made up their mind to kill, already had the wheel in motion, and choosing a gun or a knife to do his/her deed is just a process. Because you already have the mind to kill. And that's abnormal to begin with.

I will concede that killing people with a gun is way more easy than knife, but at the end of the day, it is the nature of mass killing, a one off, planned attack over a large area, people who prefer to kill with a knife usually more calculated and more plan have to put in motion, that did not fit the profile of a mass murder, it more suited with the profile of a serial killer.

On the other hand, gun control would have no use in these situation, in fact, gun control would only make the course of killing easier, because you are less likely to encounter armed resistance during your deed. People who usually do this kind of stuff would have had his weapon illegally, or obtained with the fact that they are legally covered (like belong to a gun club or some sort) Both of which would have by-passed gun control law. Even in Australia, gun crime is actually a problem when Australia have a strong gun control culture, to an effect that you cannot own toy gun (A friend of mind actually was charged by the police for selling toy gun, those shooting water bullet from China, and he got charge like he is a big arms dealer....)

The overall problem I see is the mental health problem and lack of mental health care, as I said, if you are right in your mind, you wont go down and kill a bunch of people when I handed you a loaded gun, people have to be sick in the head before something like this is done. And we aren't doing enough to care for these people, which is how this turn out.

Yup, we can all see that. In any case, carry on professor. I'm done wasting my time here.

You should not waste your time with the infirmed to begin with, he call everything American do is anti-Pakistani, not point talking to a person like that.

 

[jhungary]

Apparently the perpetrator was a bully victim. Shades of Columbine. There should be better measures for spotting potential perpetrators before tragedies happen.

It's hard to do a profiling of a bully victim turn predator

the two were a different concept, if a person is a bully victim, he/she won't show any sign of predatorial behaviour, that is the reason why he/she was pick as a bully victim to begin with. unlike serial killer, there aren't too much common ground between a bully and when he/she will fight back.

The only way its possible is for the family member of the victim to look over their behaviour. But then again, if this happened in the first place, he/she would not have been a bully victim...