1) I don't understand why you keep returning to OBL raid. I said yes PAF was found lacking, BUT if anything the PAF response on Feb 27th has corrected any wrong impression India might have gotten after OBL raid. So what are you complaining about now?
2) You can call it luck, I call it time-pressure from approaching interceptors. You ask what if Spice-2000 had hit; then H2/H4s would have hit the Indian Military structures/buildings as well. This is how military retaliations are planned, you carry air-strikes, we carry air strikes, you fire missiles, we fire missiles. Yes this could have started a retaliation cycle back and forth, which may have led to nuclear war; but then that's something both countries should have thought about before initiating the hostilities.
3) If PAF response would not have hit Indian Military where it hurt, India would not be contemplating cruise missile strikes on Pakistani targets the same night. So this proves India got an appropriate response that hurt.
4) Beyond that I would suggest that you read the leaked Abbottabad Commission report rather then relying on media bites. You will get your answers.
5) Lastly, if you still not convinced we can agree to disagree, as this discussion isn't going anywhere.
1- I state OBL incident because it was not mere incompetence, it was treason. Do you understand the difference between the two!! When your own act against your country and help and support the enemies. Yanks were so unprofessional that they couldn't land the helicopter in the compound even though under no threats and full co-operation given to them by the PA. Look at their incompetency. And look at how Pakistani pride got hurt around the world for eternity. If you my friend cannot understand it, then I am talking to the wrong guys.
2- I am baffled from your approach. You think Pak launching few H2/H4 bombs and killing more Indians in response would be it!! Would that bring dead Pakistanis back to life!! Would that have covered up for the incompetence of PAF!! No, absolutely not. What it would have done is to start the war without shadow of a doubt.
Something you say PAF was trying to avoid by not shooting down Indians jets.
3- You basically accepting that response from Pak have brought the two countries close to the war. What was the problem and what would have been the consequences to shoot at the intruding jets!! When they have already declared war on you by bombing your country!! I am now coming to the conclusion that you are arguing for the sake of arguments.
4- Abbotabad commission report is pile of rubbish. What you want me to read!! Do I have to repeat that no one has answered the questions how 12 seals from the crashed helicopter boarded one remaining heli!! Nobody ever will.
What I have already said, Pakistanis are good at buring their heads in the sand. Commissions, JIT blah blah blah, tell me one thing ever done concrete in Pakistan as a result!!!
The politicians and the PA has kept people uneducated so they would tolerate and not questions.
Even the attack on Peshawar school, death of 80 children was tolerated like nothing happened. Who had been held responsible until now!! What actions taken against the responsible people!! Where they came from, who trained them, who financed them!! Any actions against those who committed such barbaric, terrorist act on Pakistani soil!!!
I wouldn't respond to your further replies, thank you for you efforts.
Hope u can tell them the example of sala post attack after which pakistan stopped , american supplies going into afghanistan on which , halry clinton has to apologize to pakistani state ?
While I see no probelms looking at bilawal or other opposition leadership its thier right to say what they think best for them ?
If they say bad , they will get exposed and then ppls may not vote for them ?
And PTI should become mature as a political party , and stop just druming anti\crouption movement ?
Thts not thier job , its the job of LEAs and courts , PTIs job is to bring , economic reforms , and make a poor pakistanis life good ?
Instead of crying about old thugs ?
and remember one thing , even some of kiyanis actions were seen bad but by no means he was another of zardari or nawaz type person himself ?
He did some bad decisions which been used and tried to be blackmailed by some political and foreign thugs ?
who thought power just lies under the stick and cap of kiyani ?
Maybe kiyani was a bit greedy for power , but he lacked charcter and guts like musharf ?
There is a inner circle , of pakarmy , and not all the decsions can be taken by thier chiefs ?
And if someone tries that , he could meet the end of gen.zia ul haq even though he is the one who reconstructed pak army after 1971 loss ?
These all events were of past , and pakarmy has passed a lot of evolutions of different kinds , and right now there is a inner circle which keeps eye even on its chief and they chcek all the decsions taken by the chiefs , and thats the tool reconstructed by gen raheel and some other of his mates , cause pakistan cant afford to give the keys of its nucks to any single person no matter who he could be ?
But right now , govt has to bring economy bck , not just old slogans so , we can have more better quality of fighter jets which can defend us better then today , sometimes I think , sometimes we as pakistanis expect too much from our army ,which was tried to tied down by our enemies ?
Jst that feb 27 showdown , brought us the reality that if , we had a better economy and better budget, our airforce could be doing much more then of what thy did on feb27?
Hope u hve seen who stood by pakistan at tht time , it was just china but hiddenly and turkey ?
We wont be in good condition if we would have gone for bigger war ? Because thts what our enemies wanted , us to drag us into a long war ?
And it wasnt india , thy also been fooled by a common super enemy?
Thy tried to kill many birds with one stone , and that stone has hit thier own arse in the end ?lolzz
So stop worrying , we r good , but we need money and a good economy to protect ourselves thts more important and with asad umar our finanace minster Im lossing hopes
There r.many like him , he is just a face , and not everything happens as thy planned or wish for ?
Thank you for the sermon my friend, I have taken notes. I will not respond to PTI parts, I am not their spokesperson. If you read my comments on another thread, I have already criticised Asad Umer, I think he is like Kiyani a complete disaster in the making for Pakistan. He is incompetent and a fool. He thinks by talking, by snipe remarks against others, juggat bazi etc, he wins.
I am worried he is running and would ruin Pakistani economy completely.
I can assure you I am with no Political party in Pakistan. I only love Pakistan and its people. Therefore, my comments are always without any slants. I only write what I think and what I feel is harmful or good for Pakistana and its people.
That's why I am against Kiyani. He has done far more harm to Pakistan rather than one or two bad decision. He has toed the policies for years, which had brought the destruction to Pakistan. Giving the NRO to the thugs was one of the biggest crime he has committed. Pakistan has paid the prize for it over 10 years of thieves rule and it would continue to pay the price for it for another decade without shadow of a doubt.
Kiyani as a matter of fact was a tool of the corrupt political thugs. His support for Butts is well known. He betrayed Musharraf to take over from him. He conspired with Nawaz Butt against the state and people of Pakistan. He was hands in gloves with another corrupt traitor EX CJ Iftikhar Chaudhry. List of his crimes against Pakistan is long very long. If what you say how Pakistani army is run, did they missed all his actions!! Or were they on board with him to take such actions!! and bear responsabilities for the destruction of Pakistan!!
Shahbaz Butt and Choi Nasar meeting him in the cover of darkness is no secret. This man has acted against the interests of Pakistan all his professional life, he should be charged for treason, without shadow of a doubt.
........... I am a civi who knows the wars cannot be fought and won alone during these days. 
