The Un-Intended Eye Opener Of 27th Feb:---

[Arsalan 345]

Hi Arsalan, That's the point I was answering after someone stated the orders were from high up not to shoot the IAF fighters. One thing we should never do is to criticise our soldiers or lower ranks officers. They risk their lives to protect the motherland. The problem is with always with the Generals and other high ups. Same thing has happened on 26th. Otherwise we know that Pakistani CAPs were in the air, they stopped the intrusions on two places further south. Here IAF not only entered our airspace but was also allowed to fire the spice 2000. This is unpardonable. Those bombs would have caused massive damage, if not missed the targets.



That's great. It would be fantastic if those 5 Su30 were downed. Don't you think mate!!!



I remember posting the video of Hilali's comment regarding F-15 flying and capture of Israeli Pilot. He is quite influential guy, he wouldn't have said that on national TV without some information.
Today, a poster I had been interacting also had said that Israeli was handed over to the Saudis. That ISI has recorded his interview with Abhinandan. If all this is true, Abhinandan quiet makes sense.



Off course he did, he consented that Yanks can pull up the stunt. Yanks were still so terror struck that they couldn't land the second copter safely in the compound and crashed it, despite assurance that there would be no hostile fire in the theater from Pakistan. They suffered losses. PA provided support to rescue them, otherwise it was impossible for them to board the remaining chopper. The chopper is not capable to carry 24 seals,period. No wonder no one here is ready to answer my questions. They are all dancing around it instead of answering questions straight up. In the past I have posted the video of the Air Chief Marshal of PAF at the time, he told a cock and bull story to Pakistanis. The whole saga is shameful. A shame Kiyani and his other generals brought to Pakistan. Our name is sullied all around the world.
But few here on the name of nationalism keep protecting the incompetent and more importantly criminals who conspired against their own country.

i still don't understand one thing.iaf said that f16s fired barrage of amraams towards su-30s.now we claim that we hit one su-30.what happened with the barrage of amraams? is it true that su-30 jamming pod and iaf evasive maneuvers saved lots of su-30s and our jets ecsaped during their evasive maneuvers? if this is true than the rate of kill is extremely low.it means that iaf successfully saved lots of su-30s.theory is that when they were chasing our fighter jets,another group of pakistani fighter jets on our side of loc fired many amraams but only one kill.i believe that this jamming pod of su-30s saved them.i don't know if this is true or not but this is a concern for us.we hit their chopper.i think the target was clear because f-16 infiltrated deep and despite clutter,successfully targeted indian chopper.

 

[MastanKhan]

Nice piece
Mastan sb
But I feel you left out the element of ZDK 03 and Erieye and how they would have fitted into this skirmish

Hi,

I intentionally left them out---. Only SHOW HORSES are discussed---.

You have taken the debate to different levels. About these issues I have written for over 5 years. These plans I understood many years ago when Americans landed in Afghanistan. Every sensible person knows that the real target after 9/11 is Pakistan. Or in other words, to remove Pakistan's nuclear posture. That is Israel's premier target to complete its hegemony in the ME. There are two countries which stand in its way, Pakistan and Iran as you have mentioned in your post. I have always been in favor that Pakistan should discuss it with Iran and communicate to them that it is in mutual interests of both countries to have close co-operation. Pakistan should not join hands with SA viz-a-viz Iran. We should treat both countries on their individual levels, not as one policy.

About SA and the Prince Muhammad, I have years ago written that he is acting exactly like son of Ghaddafi, who was "coached" in the UK when studying here. He on his return convinced his father to stop his nuclear ambitions and come clean to the West. Which he did by handing over the documents to the West. What happened to both of them the world has seen it. Same fate awaits Muhammad Bin Suleman. He is trading a very thin line.

I was aware of the plans you describe a little. I sensed it when the Indians through dummy government of Afghanistan objected to Taliban attending the meetings in Islamabad. The meetings got cancelled. Taliban off course were part of the plan by the "Angels". The attack on the base which was used in Southern Afghanistan by Taliban was timely and carried out the job assigned to it.

If you look at my posts carefully, almost in every post I confess that I don't have any inside information like many claim here, I only look at the happening and analyse them to reach my conclusions. The Israeli/Indian nexus to attack Pakistan's nuclear assets is very old, they have now been foiled twice.

Now comes the part, which off course I don't know, i.e. capture of Israeli assets by Pakistan, men or machines.
About one pilot we hear lots of rumors, which I personally can not verify, but from the evidence can think to be highly plausible. From your above post I got the feelings you are trying to put the suggestion that Israeli machine assets were also used i.e. the jets; we know that their missiles are installed in India for a while now. But using their own jets would be after two decades, when their first attempt was foiled.

I have repeatedly written that Indian's losses are far greater than what is known to the public. Once again, my assessment is only based on public information not inside information. Now if what you say is correct we can add to it Israeli losses too.

I am shocked to see the reaction of some people here. I thought the level of debate here should be civilised and in-depth. From my comments on PAF reaction on 26th Feb people are taking the meanings, which I never intended. I and @MastanKhan are on one platform on this issue and think that IAF should have been dealt with a massive blow on that day rather than PAF attacks on 27th Feb. People can disagree with our point of view, without being going well overboard.



Bro, Kiyani has caused damage to Pakistan on many levels. He has done the NRO, agreed for the "Bari" of PPP and PMLN thugs and as a consequence caused more damage to Pakistan than India can ever do, by eroding our financial and industrial bases. In my opinion he needs to be brought to the book and charge for treason.
He is more responsible for the damage done to Pakistan, far more than Musharaf who because of political reasons is lambasted in Pakistani press rather than the real culprit Kiyani, who was involved at the time as ISI Chief not Musharaf.

Hi,

On the same note---ages ago---I wrote that pakistani generals should never had allowed a christian military to land in a muslim country next door---.

Osama Bin Laden was a spent force on 2001---he had no worth----he had no value---he had no following---he was a man on the run---.

Instead of getting into the intricacies of who done 9/11 and what were the causes---the focus should have been on how to save a muslim nation from being invaded by a christian military---.

The problem with the pakistani generals was that they had not been studying the americans on a regular and on a continuous basis---. The pak gen were living in the LaLa land of the vietnam war---even though Iraq's military was decimated---still light bulbs had not gone on---.

People forget that in vietnam---4.5 million vietnamese died---agriculture land destroyed---but still some wanted a vietnam made of the US military in AFG---.

Now with 2 million dead AFG's and another 4 million homeless---in the last 17 years---indeed the US wants to go home---but after decimating a whole nation---and that was not all.

Pak military should have gone in right away---executed OBL and handed over his DEAD body to the americans---rather than let a christian military invade AFG---.

The american missionaries tried real hard to convert the poor AFG's but that is another topic---.

I am going to ignore this post as it is totally without merit.

Hi,

Ok---you do that---. Now as that has satisfied your indulgence---go write something about the current issue---.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Not only protecting them they are now trying to bring children of Zardari and NS into the game to completely suppress and destroy Pakistan.

Off topic.. but it deserve a clarification, there were no policies to begin with.
Zardari was openly stealing everywhere, why he's not behind bars because foreign agencies are protecting him. While foreign agencies always have Pakistan's top slot in their pocket.

 

[macnurv]

Half of nation still doesnt understand that the economy is a mess..even worse, they dont understand that economy is more important than military might and worse of all they dont understand that last 10 years corruption and making business difficult destroyed the economy ..

on top debts were taken to artificially paint a rossy picture ...

An easy escape is to blame the military ..when they have nothing to do with stupid policies PMLN and PPPP crafted

Both Civilians and military played a role in the current mess we are in, by all accounts it does seem that the establishment had learn some lessons and is trying to change its course. Civilian politicians on the other hand, havent learned a single thing and still are continuing with their destructive ways.

As a nation, we havent learned a single lesson from past 15 years of blood shed, you read the news paper or turn on any news channel, most of the time I see bunch of idiots harping non-sense about predictions that any person with a remote connection to reality out right would reject them, instead our nation seems to be a firm believer of such fables and fairy tales.

It takes time to put somelne legally behind bars..if done wrong it's useless...

Even if done right(like with PMLN) it still is highly un popular with people of Pakistan

Like it or not but their are million of people that are fans of our nawaz and zardaris...

Even if bhutto zardari shoots some one in public he will still win votes

I dont think so much of people would care about it. PML-N for all its claims fizzled out and for all the hoohaw havent been able to do much. Zardai and Co is in the same category, state must decide and follow through it. Pakistan is a unique country where out right traitors such as Achkzai are given important responsibilities and allowed to spew their non sense.

Hi,

On the same note---ages ago---I wrote that pakistani generals should never had allowed a christian military to land in a muslim country next door---.

Osama Bin Laden was a spent force on 2001---he had no worth----he had no value---he had no following---he was a man on the run---.

Instead of getting into the intricacies of who done 9/11 and what were the causes---the focus should have been on how to save a muslim nation from being invaded by a christian military---.

The problem with the pakistani generals was that they had not been studying the americans on a regular and on a continuous basis---. The pak gen were living in the LaLa land of the vietnam war---even though Iraq's military was decimated---still light bulbs had not gone on---.

People forget that in vietnam---4.5 million vietnamese died---agriculture land destroyed---but still some wanted a vietnam made of the US military in AFG---.

Now with 2 million dead AFG's and another 4 million homeless---in the last 17 years---indeed the US wants to go home---but after decimating a whole nation---and that was not all.

Pak military should have gone in right away---executed OBL and handed over his DEAD body to the americans---rather than let a christian military invade AFG---.

The american missionaries tried real hard to convert the poor AFG's but that is another topic---.

And more ranting that made little to no sense. How exactly was Pakistan to stop "Christian" Army from invading Afghanistan, please enlighten us the bipolar one.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I dont think the real Afghan(Pashton nation loving Afghan) can ever be converted to Christianity because Islam is so compatible with pashtun wali.

Hi,

I intentionally left them out---. Only SHOW HORSES are discussed---.



Hi,

On the same note---ages ago---I wrote that pakistani generals should never had allowed a christian military to land in a muslim country next door---.

Osama Bin Laden was a spent force on 2001---he had no worth----he had no value---he had no following---he was a man on the run---.

Instead of getting into the intricacies of who done 9/11 and what were the causes---the focus should have been on how to save a muslim nation from being invaded by a christian military---.

The problem with the pakistani generals was that they had not been studying the americans on a regular and on a continuous basis---. The pak gen were living in the LaLa land of the vietnam war---even though Iraq's military was decimated---still light bulbs had not gone on---.

People forget that in vietnam---4.5 million vietnamese died---agriculture land destroyed---but still some wanted a vietnam made of the US military in AFG---.

Now with 2 million dead AFG's and another 4 million homeless---in the last 17 years---indeed the US wants to go home---but after decimating a whole nation---and that was not all.

Pak military should have gone in right away---executed OBL and handed over his DEAD body to the americans---rather than let a christian military invade AFG---.

The american missionaries tried real hard to convert the poor AFG's but that is another topic---.



Hi,

Ok---you do that---. Now as that has satisfied your indulgence---go write something about the current issue---.

 

[imadul]

Which results u know ?
And who told u those results ????

You need some eduction in history and lessons learned. I will give few succinct points:
1. Pakistan initiated Op Gibraltar to free J&K. It failed.
2. India attacked from IB, and full war started.
3. Myth to defend East Pakistan from West was broken.
4. 65 war lead to the debacle of East Pakistan.
5. Not to mention 65 war and succeeding events derailed Pakistan industrial and economic development.
6. Kargil, after initial success, had to be pulled back. Gave India opportunity to declare Kashmir struggle as terrorism with help from US. LoC was fenced and Kashmiris were effectively separated.

Generals could not take advantage of Indo-China war of 62. J&K could have been liberated at that time with minimum losses but tinplate general Ayyub Khan got cold feet.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Hi,

On the same note---ages ago---I wrote that pakistani generals should never had allowed a christian military to land in a muslim country next door---.
Osama Bin Laden was a spent force on 2001---he had no worth----he had no value---he had no following---he was a man on the run---.
Instead of getting into the intricacies of who done 9/11 and what were the causes---the focus should have been on how to save a muslim nation from being invaded by a christian military---.
The problem with the pakistani generals was that they had not been studying the americans on a regular and on a continuous basis---. The pak gen were living in the LaLa land of the vietnam war---even though Iraq's military was decimated---still light bulbs had not gone on---.
People forget that in vietnam---4.5 million vietnamese died---agriculture land destroyed---but still some wanted a vietnam made of the US military in AFG---.
Now with 2 million dead AFG's and another 4 million homeless---in the last 17 years---indeed the US wants to go home---but after decimating a whole nation---and that was not all.
Pak military should have gone in right away---executed OBL and handed over his DEAD body to the americans---rather than let a christian military invade AFG---.
The american missionaries tried real hard to convert the poor AFG's but that is another topic---.

@MastanKhan , I will leave 2011 incident on one side, it had different dynamics and a lot can be said, considering what evidence had surfaced later on.
Even on Afghan's issue I wouldn't say much, just a little. I deal with Afghans in the UK all the time. Let me just tell you, we Pakistanis have lot more sympathies for them and helped them for over 40 years now. But if you meet now the younger Afghans , they are completely brainwashed. The years of Indian propaganda through their patsies like Ghani and before him Karzai had done lot of damage, unless you deal with Afghans. They hate Pakistanis and Pakistan. Considering what is my experience and knowledge now, I couldn't care for Afghanistan at all.
As for your statement about Muslim countries. Have you seen even what was the attitude of UAE and SA during IOC meeting!! Lets move on.
I am concern of what happened in Pakistan, which has given us a bad name all around the world. I am 1 million % convinced that the strike was planned with Pakistan. Kiyani sold out Pakistan, what he got in return needs to be investigated by Pakistan. I have already gone for the reason for my unshakable believe. One the presence of Chinook and Second the capacity of Black Hawk gives away the game. No military expert can get out of it, guaranteed.
I am concern that due to that staged incident, we got very bad name, and presented an image to the world that we are there for the taking. How good is this image for a proud "Nuclear" nation!!
I can see that same complacency for India's airstrikes. That is a very dangerous trend. We were saved because of unprofessionalism of the IAF, otherwise we would have had hundreds of dead.
This could happen again, therefore, we should demand fool proof steps from PAF to protect Pakistan and its population.

 

[batmannow]

@batmannow one question comes to mind... if Israel was so willing to have themselves involved in Indo /Pak conflict, and ready to have the risks of getting exposed, than it clarify at least 2 issues:

1- India and partners have surely planned a full blown war with Pakistan, which in their minds would be a final day for Pakistan armed forces. What we know for sure, they were ready for a war on ground and in air. Their armed forces, all the way down was in a mood for bloodshed.

2- If India has so many influential western partners and as you pointed at Israel, are they not be working on at level of Pakistan's internal affairs? Don't you think they'll be having key ministers working on their agenda? Who knows Imran Khan him self is honey trapped! We know, UK have tried twice earlier on him and than this current transition, which happened in presence of MI5 agent (as they call Reham Khan) can't be give clean chit without any home work.

Last but not least.... what will be their next move, besides calling Imran Khan! Which has already happened.

Sir ,
U hve a lot of good questions but I can just tell u , what I know ?
I think , israels role is restricted towards disarming pakistan with its nuclear assests and then to become a donkey against iran and thts my own POV , what really they are up too I dont know , in case feb 27 thy may be trying to let us fight india , while thy strike some of thier defined our special sites according to CIA ?
But indian capablity became , a liablity to them in the end ?
While I.gss our angles knows who is with who ?
Sometimes I get wired calls to let some of my stuff , follow some pakistani politicians overseas , while tapping thier activites , I just can tell u that ?lolzz

@MastanKhan , I will leave 2011 incident on one side, it had different dynamics and a lot can be said, considering what evidence had surfaced later on.
Even on Afghan's issue I wouldn't say much, just a little. I deal with Afghans in the UK all the time. Let me just tell you, we Pakistanis have lot more sympathies for them and helped them for over 40 years now. But if you meet now the younger Afghans , they are completely brainwashed. The years of Indian propaganda through their patsies like Ghani and before him Karzai had done lot of damage, unless you deal with Afghans. They hate Pakistanis and Pakistan. Considering what is my experience and knowledge now, I couldn't care for Afghanistan at all.
As for your statement about Muslim countries. Have you seen even what was the attitude of UAE and SA during IOC meeting!! Lets move on.
I am concern of what happened in Pakistan, which has given us a bad name all around the world. I am 1 million % convinced that the strike was planned with Pakistan. Kiyani sold out Pakistan, what he got in return needs to be investigated by Pakistan. I have already gone for the reason for my unshakable believe. One the presence of Chinook and Second the capacity of Black Hawk gives away the game. No military expert can get out of it, guaranteed.
I am concern that due to that staged incident, we got very bad name, and presented an image to the world that we are there for the taking. How good is this image for a proud "Nuclear" nation!!
I can see that same complacency for India's airstrikes. That is a very dangerous trend. We were saved because of unprofessionalism of the IAF, otherwise we would have had hundreds of dead.
This could happen again, therefore, we should demand fool proof steps from PAF to protect Pakistan and its population.

Leme asure you , that IAF knows well , what has struck them , the OBL game is over , as I told u , he was kiddnaped by musharfs MI angels , and that was his power later on to let bush what ever he wanted pakistan gain a lot financially and millitarly , and everyone knows kiyani been kicked out strongly from the inner circle after that famous meme gate scandle and he cant travl out of pakistan rest of life nor he can contact any media thats kind a harsh conditions , if we compare with musharaf , because inner circle thinks he was a real patriot , as we hve exposed israeli role , now india has no option but to be soft while israelis have talked to us , cause we told them if we find out ever again thier dam jet in our space we hve the capability to strike israel with conventional or nuclear hit , while those who u think , are afghans are really not the afghans pushtoons which are our side , those afghans u meet are non pushtoons afghanis who are our enemies since the time of babrak karmal days ,
Gen raheels biggest credit was , he restored our guns back to our enemies made our troops practice , new techniques CQB, and told america to remain in its skin , it was ppls like him who let a big preasure on baji , to kick out black water contractors and restore the pride and striking capablity , it showes pakarmy is not just can be controlled by a single person even as its head , then came genral bajwa , who is very silent player and has a bigger vission then all of the passed heads of army and right now he has , not only let indian armys so called majority complex broken but also showed the world its time for them to more and best thing is he us doing all without bieng visible

 

[ziaulislam]

Both Civilians and military played a role in the current mess we are in, by all accounts it does seem that the establishment had learn some lessons and is trying to change its course. Civilian politicians on the other hand, havent learned a single thing and still are continuing with their destructive ways.

As a nation, we havent learned a single lesson from past 15 years of blood shed, you read the news paper or turn on any news channel, most of the time I see bunch of idiots harping non-sense about predictions that any person with a remote connection to reality out right would reject them, instead our nation seems to be a firm believer of such fables and fairy tales.


I dont think so much of people would care about it. PML-N for all its claims fizzled out and for all the hoohaw havent been able to do much. Zardai and Co is in the same category, state must decide and follow through it. Pakistan is a unique country where out right traitors such as Achkzai are given important responsibilities and allowed to spew their non sense.




And more ranting that made little to no sense. How exactly was Pakistan to stop "Christian" Army from invading Afghanistan, please enlighten us the bipolar one.

Apart from large defence spending (nl different th

Both Civilians and military played a role in the current mess we are in, by all accounts it does seem that the establishment had learn some lessons and is trying to change its course. Civilian politicians on the other hand, havent learned a single thing and still are continuing with their destructive ways.

As a nation, we havent learned a single lesson from past 15 years of blood shed, you read the news paper or turn on any news channel, most of the time I see bunch of idiots harping non-sense about predictions that any person with a remote connection to reality out right would reject them, instead our nation seems to be a firm believer of such fables and fairy tales.


I dont think so much of people would care about it. PML-N for all its claims fizzled out and for all the hoohaw havent been able to do much. Zardai and Co is in the same category, state must decide and follow through it. Pakistan is a unique country where out right traitors such as Achkzai are given important responsibilities and allowed to spew their non sense.




And more ranting that made little to no sense. How exactly was Pakistan to stop "Christian" Army from invading Afghanistan, please enlighten us the bipolar one.

PMLN and PPP wrecked havoc in 1990s yet were reelected
Military is partially responsible but what do you expect ? For them to do nothing in time of crisis?
1977 and 1998 were era of serious crisis..without crisis the army has never intervened

 

[crankthatskunk]

Off topic.. but it deserve a clarification, there were no policies to begin with.
Zardari was openly stealing everywhere, why he's not behind bars because foreign agencies are protecting him. While foreign agencies always have Pakistan's top slot in their pocket.

I am finding it very amusing, I am cracking up with laughter. A country, which bleeds for years, allow terror attack after terror attack, over 80,000 of its citizen died because of terror attacks, planned and executed from the foreign soil and by the people who are trained, armed and financed from the foreign soil. Who despite suffering heavy losses, was not able to convince the world that its a victim and not the perpetrator. Because nobody was bothered to plead its case. Nobody gives a toss.
Didn't raise the involvement of its enemy in terror activities which are conducted on its soil.
Its General on the insistence of powers entered in to a "black" and "illegal" agreement with politicians which were known criminals and thieves to give them chances again to loot the country. All their crimes forgotten, cases dropped, given clean slate to rob the country again.
Now the same army which the General was heading is complaining about "Financial Terrorism". Economy in doldrums. But still the country doesn't have the courage to get rid of its corrupt politicians.
One is demanding that he should be release from the jail on medical ground. As soon as he is released he would run to London so he can enjoy his looted wealth. I guarantee he would become perfectly fine and would start to betray the nation and would start his treacherous activities. His daughter submitted fake documents in the highest court in the world without any consequences.
The current highest judge of the country said from now on if anyone lies in the court, he would be jailed. All of his testimony would be considered unacceptable and unsafe. Liar in one matter would be liar in all. It shows that lying was allowed in the courts earlier. You don't want me to burst with laughter!!! Let me remind that judge, the ex-prime minister whose case for bail is in front of him for review has lied constantly, to the nation in his address, to the Parliament, to the courts. He says that if he has wealth beyond his means of income; it is none of anyone business. You see Mr. Justice, I can promise this much, you still wouldn't be able to take action against him. You know why!! Because you don't have the balls.

Another politicians openly committed treason, but nobody in the country has the courage to nab him.
I can keep going on and on, but I think there is no need, message is delivered.

Shamefully, on this forum if I am trying to say that Pakistanis should ask the responsible individuals no matter which section of the society/government to be answerable, people on this forum are up in arms, like I am asking something wrong. RIP Pakistan, where men have no balls.

Even the justices have made theft legal by accepting money from the biggest thief in the country. To allow him to continue to develop huge land which was allotted to him illegally. It is a precedent going to make a mockery of the legal system in the years to come. But who cares.

It's highest Judge said about another criminal, why is he included in the JIT report, at the time of the crime he was only 1 year old. Forgetting that the thief continued to lead the company when he gained adulthood. Since then his expenses are paid from the illegal bank accounts. But what is the big deal, right!! To make the matter worse the same judge, forgot to mention anything about it in his written judgement. So what was the need to make an statement in SCP!!! Nobody cares.
Oh boy some royal mess Pakistan is in, real mess. God bless Pakistan and lets hope people become sensible otherwise there is no hope.

 

[pkd]

U can imagine what ever , but its just not end of that great game ?
Do u know trump is really deadly kind of bussines man ?
And who is doing offshore drilling in karachis seas ?lolzzz
If u can catch tht , then u may hit a jackpot thts alli can say

Where do you think the next stop of Erik Prince, The founder, and CEO of Blackwater, is ????? See for yourself
https://www.aljazeera.com/programme...q-privatising-wars-trump-190314084244944.html

Mehdi Hasan: What about the leverage that Sean made a point about? The economic leverage.

Erik Prince: Well, the, the fact is, what does the company do now? It does trucking and transportation from Southern Africa, OK? You can deliver groceries from Cape Town, all the way up to the DRC. We medevac, we fly people all over the continent and we do significant air operations out of Malta. Supporting, hopefully, oil operations in countries like Iraq or Pakistan or the hydro dams.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Leme asure you , that IAF knows well , what has struck them , the OBL game is over , as I told u , he was kiddnaped by musharfs MI angels , and that was his power later on to let bush what ever he wanted pakistan gain a lot financially and millitarly , and everyone knows kiyani been kicked out strongly from the inner circle after that famous meme gate scandle and he cant travl out of pakistan rest of life nor he can contact any media thats kind a harsh conditions , if we compare with musharaf , because inner circle thinks he was a real patriot , as we hve exposed israeli role , now india has no option but to be soft while israelis have talked to us , cause we told them if we find out ever again thier dam jet in our space we hve the capability to strike israel with conventional or nuclear hit , while those who u think , are afghans are really not the afghans pushtoons which are our side , those afghans u meet are non pushtoons afghanis who are our enemies since the time of babrak karmal days ,
Gen raheels biggest credit was , he restored our guns back to our enemies made our troops practice , new techniques CQB, and told america to remain in its skin , it was ppls like him who let a big preasure on baji , to kick out black water contractors and restore the pride and striking capablity , it showes pakarmy is not just can be controlled by a single person even as its head , then came genral bajwa , who is very silent player and has a bigger vission then all of the passed heads of army and right now he has , not only let indian armys so called majority complex broken but also showed the world its time for them to more and best thing is he us doing all without bieng visible

Everyone knows OBL game is over, I am only talking about the humiliations Kiyani brought to Pakistan. Let me add another of his crime as you mentioned Memo gate. He was involved with corrupt thug Nawaz Butt to restore the corrupt thug Justice Kana. Justice Kana in return for the services of Nawaz Butt help him to steal the 2013 elections with the help of Kiyani. Kiyani has lot to answer for.
Brother, I deal with Afghan refugees in the UK as a free lancer, I have licence and get training all year around on different legislation and laws in this regards. The licence is renewed every year, so I have to have my training up to date. Almost every Saturday I am attending a training session in this regard. The three young guys I am dealing right at this minute, two of them are Pushtoons and one is of Tajik descent. They all have the same feelings about Pakistan and Pakistanis. They listen to their program on youtube, facebook etc and always talk bad about Pakistan. If anything the Tajik youngster is far far better, he never talks negative.
I like Bajwa, he could do more, same Raheel should have done more.
The problem is that if the State of Pakistan cannot deal with midgets like Bilawal after his treacherous outburst, then we have massive problems. Everyone knows that Bilawal had been to USA recently and who he meet in USA. But still nobody is capable of taking action against him.
That's why I say Pakistani men have no balls. There should be laws and everyone should adhere to the laws. But unfortunately there is no law in Pakistan, except the power. Sad but true.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Apart from large defence spending (nl different th

PMLN and PPP wrecked havoc in 1990s yet were reelected
Military is partially responsible but what do you expect ? For them to do nothing in time of crisis?
1977 and 1998 were era of serious crisis..without crisis the army has never intervened

My personal views are that a selected oligarchy of the untouchables are the reason for Pakistan being such an abnormal state. They have been in control of the media,finance and foreign affairs since our birth.They never tolerated popular leadership, they maligned them through their puppets .The modus operandi has usually been the same that i have witnessed for the last five decades. I will stop here before i start writing volumes on the sacred cows.

 

[crankthatskunk]

i still don't understand one thing.iaf said that f16s fired barrage of amraams towards su-30s.now we claim that we hit one su-30.what happened with the barrage of amraams? is it true that su-30 jamming pod and iaf evasive maneuvers saved lots of su-30s and our jets ecsaped during their evasive maneuvers? if this is true than the rate of kill is extremely low.it means that iaf successfully saved lots of su-30s.theory is that when they were chasing our fighter jets,another group of pakistani fighter jets on our side of loc fired many amraams but only one kill.i believe that this jamming pod of su-30s saved them.i don't know if this is true or not but this is a concern for us.we hit their chopper.i think the target was clear because f-16 infiltrated deep and despite clutter,successfully targeted indian chopper.

All this means only one thing someone/one side is not telling the truth. While PAF I think is waiting for the right time.
I don't think that Pakistani jet would fire armaments if they don't think there is a good chance of a kill and unless and until they locked the targets. once targets are locked, there is only few percentage chance that the pilot can avoid the missile. Pilot have to maneuver his jet expertly to do so. That makes me think that Indians have far more losses than they admitted. I may be wrong.

 

[batmannow]

Everyone knows OBL game is over, I am only talking about the humiliations Kiyani brought to Pakistan. Let me add another of his crime as you mentioned Memo gate. He was involved with corrupt thug Nawaz Butt to restore the corrupt thug Justice Kana. Justice Kana in return for the services of Nawaz Butt help him to steal the 2013 elections with the help of Kiyani. Kiyani has lot to answer for.
Brother, I deal with Afghan refugees in the UK as a free lancer, I have licence and get training all year around on different legislation and laws in this regards. The licence is renewed every year, so I have to have my training up to date. Almost every Saturday I am attending a training session in this regard. The three young guys I am dealing right at this minute, two of them are Pushtoons and one is of Tajik descent. They all have the same feelings about Pakistan and Pakistanis. They listen to their program on youtube, facebook etc and always talk bad about Pakistan. If anything the Tajik youngster is far far better, he never talks negative.
I like Bajwa, he could do more, same Raheel should have done more.
The problem is that if the State of Pakistan cannot deal with midgets like Bilawal after his treacherous outburst, then we have massive problems. Everyone knows that Bilawal had been to USA recently and who he meet in USA. But still nobody is capable of taking action against him.
That's why I say Pakistani men have no balls. There should be laws and everyone should adhere to the laws. But unfortunately there is no law in Pakistan, except the power. Sad but true.

Hope u can tell them the example of sala post attack after which pakistan stopped , american supplies going into afghanistan on which , halry clinton has to apologize to pakistani state ?
While I see no probelms looking at bilawal or other opposition leadership its thier right to say what they think best for them ?
If they say bad , they will get exposed and then ppls may not vote for them ?
And PTI should become mature as a political party , and stop just druming anti\crouption movement ?
Thts not thier job , its the job of LEAs and courts , PTIs job is to bring , economic reforms , and make a poor pakistanis life good ?
Instead of crying about old thugs ?
and remember one thing , even some of kiyanis actions were seen bad but by no means he was another of zardari or nawaz type person himself ?
He did some bad decisions which been used and tried to be blackmailed by some political and foreign thugs ?
who thought power just lies under the stick and cap of kiyani ?
Maybe kiyani was a bit greedy for power , but he lacked charcter and guts like musharf ?

There is a inner circle , of pakarmy , and not all the decsions can be taken by thier chiefs ?
And if someone tries that , he could meet the end of gen.zia ul haq even though he is the one who reconstructed pak army after 1971 loss ?
These all events were of past , and pakarmy has passed a lot of evolutions of different kinds , and right now there is a inner circle which keeps eye even on its chief and they chcek all the decsions taken by the chiefs , and thats the tool reconstructed by gen raheel and some other of his mates , cause pakistan cant afford to give the keys of its nucks to any single person no matter who he could be ?
But right now , govt has to bring economy bck , not just old slogans so , we can have more better quality of fighter jets which can defend us better then today , sometimes I think , sometimes we as pakistanis expect too much from our army ,which was tried to tied down by our enemies ?
Jst that feb 27 showdown , brought us the reality that if , we had a better economy and better budget, our airforce could be doing much more then of what thy did on feb27?
Hope u hve seen who stood by pakistan at tht time , it was just china but hiddenly and turkey ?
We wont be in good condition if we would have gone for bigger war ? Because thts what our enemies wanted , us to drag us into a long war ?
And it wasnt india , thy also been fooled by a common super enemy?
Thy tried to kill many birds with one stone , and that stone has hit thier own arse in the end ?lolzz
So stop worrying , we r good , but we need money and a good economy to protect ourselves thts more important and with asad umar our finanace minster Im lossing hopes

Where do you think the next stop of Erik Prince, The founder, and CEO of Blackwater, is ????? See for yourself
https://www.aljazeera.com/programme...q-privatising-wars-trump-190314084244944.html

Mehdi Hasan: What about the leverage that Sean made a point about? The economic leverage.

Erik Prince: Well, the, the fact is, what does the company do now? It does trucking and transportation from Southern Africa, OK? You can deliver groceries from Cape Town, all the way up to the DRC. We medevac, we fly people all over the continent and we do significant air operations out of Malta. Supporting, hopefully, oil operations in countries like Iraq or Pakistan or the hydro dams.

There r.many like him , he is just a face , and not everything happens as thy planned or wish for ?