The U.S. Senate moved to pass new restrictions on aid to Pakistan

[S-2]

" Once you lost Pakistan be prepared to see your rivals in the middle-east ."

The question is not whether WE lose Pakistan but whether and to whom YOU may lose Pakistan.

Somehow many here would be happy to see Afghans live under taliban rule but not yourselves. You'd best think long and hard on ALL that's implied in that convoluted thinking. There are massive moral, ethical, and practical implications that seem missing from any local calculus. There is also, for Pakistan, the law of unintended consequence that I see bandied about here WRT America.

It applies to Pakistan as well. Reject our aid if you can presuade your gov't of such. Make deals if you imagine such is in Pakistan's interest and can, again, presuade your government of the correctness of such.

Thanks.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

One more thing, do you seriously believe Taiwan is one of YOUR card? Be careful when you are dealing with the lord of illusiions.

Taiwan, ROK, Japan, Singapore are all returning to their rightful heritage. These White Supremacists time is running out, and they are fully aware of it and thus panicking. But if instead they embrace (or at least accept) that we live in a multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, etc world then they would be happier and make that many more friends.

It is the stages of development I mentioned earlier. Some are still going through fear-denial-anger. Some folks don't evolve past this stage, but now is a very interesting time in history. Never before have we had this "Clash of Civilizations".

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

hmmmmm .... low blow ... that was low blow ... on white suprimist comment

US is haspic/black/white/multi religion etc probbly best we change topic

 

[S-2]

"But if instead they embrace (or at least accept) that we live in a multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious..."

No basis for such commentary from CCP mouthpieces who, as usual, seem to ignore the basic demographics of the west.

Fact is, the west- particularly America, walks the walk that you can only pretend. Do you REALLY think those here don't know of your repressed ethnicities and the degree of repression underwhich they daily endure?

Silly.

Latinos, Africans, east and south Asians POUR into our country to participate in our grand experiment. And HAPPILY stay as we've NO desire to see it end. There is no global brain-drain as so many of the best end up here in America-for good. It will only continue-

Go to the 2:47 mark and enjoy an object lesson on this fascinating topic. It says so much more than all the statistics I might pile on your ever-so-soft brain.

"Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! The hell's the matter with you? Stupid! We're all very different people. We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans, with a capital 'A', huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts! Here's proof: his nose is cold! But there's no animal that's more faithful, that's more loyal, more loveable than the mutt. Who saw "Old Yeller?" Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end?
[raises his hand]

John Winger: Nobody cried when Old Yeller got shot? I'm sure.

John Winger: I cried my eyes out. So we're all dogfaces, we're all very, very different, but there is one thing that we all have in common: we were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army. We're mutants. There's something wrong with us, something very, very wrong with us. Something seriously wrong with us - we're soldiers. But we're American soldiers! We've been kicking azz for 200 years! We're 10 and 1! Now we don't have to worry about whether or not we practiced. We don't have to worry about whether Captain Stillman wants to have us hung. All we have to do is to be the great American fighting soldier that is inside each one of us. Now do what I do, and say what I say. And make me proud.

Ah...lovely.

Thank you, Bill.

 

[HAIDER]

Don't know why people don't understand US simple foreign policy. A war of interest. If US interest is involve then today's enemy will be friends tomorrow. Unconditional friendship, only for Izrael. Even winds are changing for Izrael too. US is trying to distant himself from unconditional backing of Izrael to play peaceful role in broader interest of country. US is helping Pakistan until it finish the gas line from Afghanistan and use Pakistan to keep eye on China,Iran and India. Pakistan for time being is satellite state of US.

 

[logic]

We cannot blame the US.

Every country works for its own agenda's and not for others.
It is Mr Zardari Mr Sharif and Mr Altaf's job to care for Pakistan but sadly they are nothing but well paid actors.

If we dont like $ than stop begging for $ simple. We cannot have it both ways. It is the so called leaders of Pakistan that are loser's and no one else.

The elite wanted to secure there own backside they developed and detonated nukes despite all the so called pressure and restrictions. What is stopping them from sending MS Ann Patterson packing home?

There is a huge conflict of interest between the people of Pakistan and the ruling elite. The ruling elite want the most extravagant convoy the sauciest cabaret girls and the vintage bottle of scotch and they do not wanna work themselves they just wanna beg for more $ in the name of people of Pakistan end of story.

 

[EjazR]

DAWN.COM | World | No condition on Pakistan in new bill: Holbrooke

WASHINGTON: US special envoy Richard Holbrooke assured Islamabad on Friday that there were no conditions on Pakistan in the new US defence authorisation bill, which has provision of at least $2.3 billion of military assistance to Pakistan in the next fiscal year.

The US Senate passed the bill on Thursday, sending it to President Barack Obama for signing it into a law.

At a hurriedly called news conference at the State Department, Mr Holbrooke also defended the Kerry-Lugar-Berman bill, saying that it was ‘a great piece of legislation’.

‘In the end, it got caught up in domestic Pakistani politics … it was misunderstood and perhaps inadequately explained,’ he added. ‘As far as I am concerned that issue is over.’

Mr Holbrooke claimed that the defence bill was being ‘wilfully distorted’ by some people in Pakistan.

‘There are no conditions on Pakistan. There are reporting requirements on us. And there’s been a total and, I believe, wilful distortion of this among some people in Pakistan,’ Mr Holbrooke said in response to a question.

‘Well, then, let me tell you, there are no conditions in this bill. There are no conditions. I don’t want to get into legalisms here, but there are requirements on us,’ he asserted.

‘The Congress wants the secretary of defence, in the case of this bill (defence authorisation bill) and the secretary of state, in the case of Kerry-Lugar-Berman, to report to them on certain issues before and during the process of releasing the funds,’ Mr Holbrooke said.

‘So this is a pro-Pakistan bill. And I pray that your — colleagues in Islamabad report it accurately so we don’t have another misunderstanding,’ Mr Holbrooke said when a Pakistani journalist asked if the defence authorisation bill imposes conditions on Pakistan, despite the fact that Pakistan Army is running successful military operation in Waziristan and other tribal regions of the country.

Mr Holbrooke also hailed Pakistan’s anti-terrorism resolve, noting that ‘there’s a connection between the Pakistani offensive (in South Waziristan) and the terrorist attacks’ on targets inside the country.

‘We are very impressed by the Pakistani resolve,’ he said. ‘The fact that so many troops have been deployed shows that they have a lot of stake in the battle.’

Mr Holbrooke also said that he had no concerns on nuclear facilities and did not agree with those who said that the extremists could seize the country’s nuclear arsenal.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The Kerry Lugar Bill is "Aid" not a "loan".

To get a loan you have to be credit worthy, there are terms to the loan, interest rates and it had to be paid back. A few months back you borrowed approx $11 billion from the IMF, one of their requirements was to spend less on the army. A lot of people howled on this forum on how the IMF was dictating terms to the GOP, and not to take the loan. Without the loan GOP would be broke and in default right now.

When we give "aid', which does not have to be repaid, we have the right to demand the terms on which the aid will be given. Who else will give you this kind of "aid". Big brother Saudi, maybe PRC, I don't think so.

Now if you want to reject our aid and go for a soft loan to PRC do you think you will get it ? If they even give it to you, do you think it will come with no terms. How many trips has Zardari and Gilani made to the PRC with bowl in hand, how much money have they received so far?

India has about $230 billion in reserves maybe you could hit them up for a $6 billion soft loan?






What part of the Kerry Lugar bill is not good for your nation's freedom? I have asked this question before and no one in this forum can give me cognizant answer. Everyone spouts about how bad it is. Requiring good governance from your country in return for free money is bad for your freedom?




India is getting nothing for free, it will be paying for everything it gets with its own money.

You can't expand your nuclear technology with our money. Generate your own money and spend it as you see fit.

Do see the interview of American ambassador to Pakistan & her admitting to the language of the bill, the mistake of restrictions & admitting that often senators don't even read the bills before passing it. If the US ambassador is accepting faults in the bill, then i believe your rant has no place.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...urther-pressurize-pakistan-14.html#post520450

And also do read this whole thread, link pasted above, so that you get an idea of the questions that you have asked.

Plus another thread would be needing your attention to see the real picture of the US aid & its effectiveness & performance. Link pasted below.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-fo...-u-s-aid-afghanistan-been-being-utilized.html

Hope so, you & some of your colleagues get another perspective of the things & the real problems faced.

Its very easy to point a finger at somebody, and difficult to see the fingers being pointed at own self.

 

[TaimiKhan]

DAWN.COM | World | No condition on Pakistan in new bill: Holbrooke

WASHINGTON: US special envoy Richard Holbrooke assured Islamabad on Friday that there were no conditions on Pakistan in the new US defence authorisation bill, which has provision of at least $2.3 billion of military assistance to Pakistan in the next fiscal year.

The US Senate passed the bill on Thursday, sending it to President Barack Obama for signing it into a law.

At a hurriedly called news conference at the State Department, Mr Holbrooke also defended the Kerry-Lugar-Berman bill, saying that it was ‘a great piece of legislation’.

‘In the end, it got caught up in domestic Pakistani politics … it was misunderstood and perhaps inadequately explained,’ he added. ‘As far as I am concerned that issue is over.’

Mr Holbrooke claimed that the defence bill was being ‘wilfully distorted’ by some people in Pakistan.

‘There are no conditions on Pakistan. There are reporting requirements on us. And there’s been a total and, I believe, wilful distortion of this among some people in Pakistan,’ Mr Holbrooke said in response to a question.

‘Well, then, let me tell you, there are no conditions in this bill. There are no conditions. I don’t want to get into legalisms here, but there are requirements on us,’ he asserted.

‘The Congress wants the secretary of defence, in the case of this bill (defence authorisation bill) and the secretary of state, in the case of Kerry-Lugar-Berman, to report to them on certain issues before and during the process of releasing the funds,’ Mr Holbrooke said.

‘So this is a pro-Pakistan bill. And I pray that your — colleagues in Islamabad report it accurately so we don’t have another misunderstanding,’ Mr Holbrooke said when a Pakistani journalist asked if the defence authorisation bill imposes conditions on Pakistan, despite the fact that Pakistan Army is running successful military operation in Waziristan and other tribal regions of the country.

Mr Holbrooke also hailed Pakistan’s anti-terrorism resolve, noting that ‘there’s a connection between the Pakistani offensive (in South Waziristan) and the terrorist attacks’ on targets inside the country.

‘We are very impressed by the Pakistani resolve,’ he said. ‘The fact that so many troops have been deployed shows that they have a lot of stake in the battle.’

Mr Holbrooke also said that he had no concerns on nuclear facilities and did not agree with those who said that the extremists could seize the country’s nuclear arsenal.

I believe Hollbroke is either drunk or high on something whenever he gives press conferences, as i have always seen stupid & contradicting remarks from him. He says something in Afghanistan, when he comes to Pakistan, he says the opposite. In India he says something, when comes to Pakistan we hear the opposite.

Same case with Mike Mullen. These two American gentlemen are some characters with two tongues.

When Swat operation was launched, he said the same thing that we don't know yet what is happening in Swat & what gains are being made by the PA. Same thing happened yesterday, PA launched the operation is SWA, he says we don't know yet what is the progress & what will be the outcome.

Idiots running the show on both sides, here our on lease unelected politicians & on the other side American politicians & people like Hallbroke & Mike Mullen.

Hollbroke should be given the cold shoulder whenever he comes like the last time he was not given an opportunity to appear with Zardari sb in a press conference & our FM had to contradict his statement that there are no trust issues between Pakistan & US. That was one brave & bold stand by the FM, and also when the ISI chief refused to meet him even when an appointment had been set.

People like these should get a treatment like this.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Huh
About time the leaders realize what the people of Pakistan have been asking for.
Declare USA Enemy.
and about all the wrangling of stone age this and that !
they have thousands of troops stuck in Afghanistan, mess with this and promise that not even their bones would get back to USA for ceremony.

 

[S-2]

Another sock-puppet, eh?

There we are-just across the border.

Got an idea! Why don't you grab that trusty AK and get your azz over there. We'll be happy to whack it and send you to irhabist hell as deserved.

 

[oceanx]

About time the leaders realize what the people of Pakistan have been asking for.
Declare USA Enemy.
...

... Why don't you grab that trusty AK and get your azz over there. We'll be happy to whack it and send you to irhabist hell as deserved.

There is never the need to over-react - bad for lives, and bad for business.

It's only good for the .

 

[LT OSAMA]

s-2

well if u r so rich in giving aids then giv 2 ur brother soldiers who r fighting in afghanistan nd iraq..u pepl cant survie in diz war widot pak..nd dz is pak army who cud finish them all..as we hav seen ur troops ovr abt mor then 9 years..

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

There are massive moral, ethical, and practical implications that seem missing from any local calculus.

You cant in any way expect ethical values from a peoplein a country where many struggle to live a safe life once they use to live when your american forces were not in Afghanistan to impose their ideas upon people who were already fighting the ethnic wars for almost a century.

There is also, for Pakistan, the law of unintended consequence that I see bandied about here WRT America.

Ofcourse . The people in US dosent understands the public reaction , the built in rich diversity and the unintended consequences of their mishandeling things . Infact the hate for the US has increased by unbounded proportions not just in Pakistan but throughout the globe .