The transformation of Punjabi identity over the centuries Haroon KhalidUpdated November 29, 2017 304

[Reichsmarschall]

It is. It has been for centuries.

India is only for hindus and it has been proved multiple times
@padamchen tell him

 

[padamchen]

India is only for hindus and it has been proved multiple times
@padamchen tell him

India is Hindu. And of the Hindus.

Except for a handful of Parsis, and even fewer Jews, all Indians are Hindu anyways.

So don't see what the fuss is about?

What belief system now followed by Hindu Indians does not take away from the undeniable fact that they are Hindus.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Jackdaws]

India is only for hindus and it has been proved multiple times
@padamchen tell him

India is Hindu. And of the Hindus.

Except for a handful of Parsis, and even fewer Jews, all Indians are Hindu anyways.

So don't see what the fuss is about?

What belief system now followed by Hindu Indians does not take away from the undeniable fact that they are Hindus.

Cheers, Doc

No - it belongs to all. It belongs to Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Parsis, Siddhis, Anglo-Indians - doesn't matter.

 

[Shah Khalid]

Namaskar,

Punjab was a Dust bowl before British Came and fertilized whole Region by their Canal System. the Region was thinly Populated starting from Ancient times to Arrival of British Colonial Power in Early Modern Period.

Same can be said for North west Rajasthan/MAruPradesh.

No Doubt The British Massively Improved The Irrigation and Eventually Agriculture But I Wouldn't Call It A Dust Bowl.River Valleys Have Always Been Economically Attractive Areas Therefore The Most Invaded.Not Just The Subcontinent But The Fertile Crescent(Tigris and Euphrates) and Egypt(Nile)

I found this part interesting. Except Indian Muslims, everyone during independence struggle was on the same page that religion was secondary. The real target was to free their motherland.

Unfortunately, then Indian Muslims thought that religion was much more important than the country so they decided to fight their very neighbours whom they had grown up with.

In the end, Britishers succeeded in their "divide and rule" policy. Indian Muslims became victims of this policy and started demanding a different country based on religion. Not to mention that leaders of newly found Pakistan then declared that Pakistan is for everyone irrespective of religion! (then why did they make it based on religion in the first place!)

This new country then started justifying its own existence by calling itself different than the Hindu India. For this new country, Pakistan's defination was simply "NOT INDIA." This new defination then finally resulted into the loss of their local Punjabi identity.

The new generation of Pakistan wants nothing to do with their roots. They want everything to do with the Invaders so that they can claim that "they ruled India for 1000 years". However, quite surprisingly, (in the same breath) they want to claim the IVC and prove themselves the locals.

This kind of identity crisis also resulted into the loss of Punjabi identity if there's such a thing.

I Am Sorry But Hindus Should Also Do Some Soul Searching Before Squarely Blaming The Muslims.You Always Pushed For A Singular Identity Never Recognizing The Diversity of The Subcontinent.Muslims Genuinely Felt An Existential Threat Culturally And Religiously.Never In The History Had India Ever Been A Completely Single Unified Country Politically And Sure As Hell Never Culturally

The Founding Fathers Of Pakistan Made A Separate Homeland For Muslims Of The Subcontinent A Distinct Cultural Group.

 

[Shah Khalid]

It is. It has been for centuries.

But Avery Specific Class Of Indians Are Not Prepared To Accept Those People Who Came Fell In Love With The Land and Settled Here.They Want All of It To Themselves

 

[Jackdaws]

But Avery Specific Class Of Indians Are Not Prepared To Accept Those People Who Came Fell In Love With The Land and Settled Here.They Want All of It To Themselves

There will always be that in any section of society.

 

[padamchen]

No - it belongs to all. It belongs to Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Parsis, Siddhis, Anglo-Indians - doesn't matter.

Yes it belongs to all of us.

But it's Hindu soil.

Hindu blood and DNA.

Hindu civilization and culture.

Nothings gonna change that.

Least of all conversions by men.

Cheers, Doc

 

[!eon]

There is no such ethnic group as Punjabi, just a linguistic group.

Exactly
But Indians are more eager to declare Punjabi as ethnic group.

 

[niaz]

India is Hindu. And of the Hindus.

Except for a handful of Parsis, and even fewer Jews, all Indians are Hindu anyways.

So don't see what the fuss is about?

What belief system now followed by Hindu Indians does not take away from the undeniable fact that they are Hindus.

Cheers, Doc

Per the latest census figures Indian population is 1, 289-miilion. Out of which 74.33% are Hindus. 14.2% Muslims, 5.84% Christians & 1.86% Sikhs. Balance consists of other small minorities such as Buddhists, Parsis, and Jews etc.

https://www.importantgk.com/indian-population-religion-wise-2017/

No one can deny that Hindus constitute overwhelming majority of the Indian population. If one considers that a country belongs to the majority population, then India is indeed for the Hindus.

However, one must not forget that in the Census, Dalits /Harijans are classified as Hindus, which is a dichotomy. How can one be a Hindu if he is not even allowed to worship in the Temple? Don't almost every day one hears about riots by the upper caste Hindus whenever Dalits try to enter the Hindu Temples? Besides many Dalits also eat beef. (I know what Dr Ambedkar said about Brahmins eating beef in the ancient times, so no need to quote him)

Per 2011 census there were 201.4-million (16.6%) Dalits in India. This means that Hindus in fact constitute 57.73% of the population. However, Dalits are found mostly in the Madhya Pradesh, Himachel Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan & Uttarkhand.

Do people remember that Dr Ambedkar initially demanded a separate country for the Dalits and Ramsay Macdonald; the British Prime minister had agreed to give separate electorate to Dalits. He was dissuaded from this demand following the Poona Pact of Sept 1932 between Gandhiji & Dr B.R Ambedkar. Mahatma Gandhi agreed to reserve 148 seats for the Dalits in the Indian legislature. Since then, Gandhiji designated Dalits as the ‘ Harijans’ or children of the Lord. Arguably, until such time that all the Hindu Temples will be open to Dalits, classifying them as Hindus is no more than a ‘Farce’.

In my humble opinion, India belongs to anyone who is born in India (son of the soil) and carries an Indian Passport.

 

[padamchen]

Per the latest census figures Indian population is 1, 289-miilion. Out of which 74.33% are Hindus. 14.2% Muslims, 5.84% Christians & 1.86% Sikhs. Balance consists of other small minorities such as Buddhists, Parsis, and Jews etc.

https://www.importantgk.com/indian-population-religion-wise-2017/

No one can deny that Hindus constitute overwhelming majority of the Indian population. If one considers that a country belongs to the majority population, then India is indeed for the Hindus.

However, one must not forget that in the Census, Dalits /Harijans are classified as Hindus, which is a dichotomy. How can one be a Hindu if he is not even allowed to worship in the Temple? Don't almost every day one hears about riots by the upper caste Hindus whenever Dalits try to enter the Hindu Temples? Besides many Dalits also eat beef. (I know what Dr Ambedkar said about Brahmins eating beef in the ancient times, so no need to quote him)

Per 2011 census there were 201.4-million (16.6%) Dalits in India. This means that Hindus in fact constitute 57.73% of the population. However, Dalits are found mostly in the Madhya Pradesh, Himachel Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan & Uttarkhand.

Do people remember that Dr Ambedkar initially demanded a separate country for the Dalits and Ramsay Macdonald; the British Prime minister had agreed to give separate electorate to Dalits. He was dissuaded from this demand following the Poona Pact of Sept 1932 between Gandhiji & Dr B.R Ambedkar. Mahatma Gandhi agreed to reserve 148 seats for the Dalits in the Indian legislature. Since then, Gandhiji designated Dalits as the ‘ Harijans’ or children of the Lord. Arguably, until such time that all the Hindu Temples will be open to Dalits, classifying them as Hindus is no more than a ‘Farce’.

In my humble opinion, India belongs to anyone who is born in India (son of the soil) and carries an Indian Passport.

Sir, this is all good in academic discussions. Preferably in the dark void if the internet.

The facts in the ground are and have always been very different.

This is a Hindu land.

You had to cleave it in a bloody partition and the largest human exodus in the history of mankind to establish Muslim suzerainty over a piece of it after a millennium of Islamic conquest and rule and conversion.

You managed it by cleansing one part of almost all Hindus. It was not a natural evolution in any way or form.

When I say you, I mean the historical land and populace that for the past 70 years has called itself Pakistan. Over a period of a thousand years.

Such is the destiny of any land where Muslims and their faith and its way of life gain a stranglehold and attain a majority. The world over. Across time.

Ask me how I know ....

Bottom line is that unlike Islam or Christianity which cross soil and blood, ancient faiths and belief systems and ways of life are immutably fused and inseparable from their soil and blood.

Such that regardless of what faith they follow now, regardless of however many generations ago they turned to a new inorganic set of beliefs, their blood and soul is still Hindu. As is the soil they are born from and birth into.

Religion comes from man sir. It is a man-made construct. Places of worship. Priests and clergy. Rules and rituals. Taboos.

Faith and spirituality on the other hand comes directly from God. To a people. From a people. At a time of their greatest need. And point of inflection on their evolution. When they are ready.

The Hindus of the subcontinent had their moment a long time before Islam came with flashing lances and swords and told them to worship Allah.

That did not make them any less Hindu.

I've already said, and agree with you, that India belongs to all Indians.

But that does not change the fact that India is Hindu. And it is the Hindus who give other faiths adopted and now practiced by other Hindus the space to live and grow.

As equals.

And I do not refer to organic faiths like Jainism, Buddhism or Sikhism here.

I mean faiths that are not of this soil.

Such is not the case in either of the Pakistans on both our flanks. And this is why we parted. And why we fight. And will continue to fight.

Till one way of life is defeated and ceases to exist on this soil.

I'll probably get banned again by the sparrow now. No biggie. I know you for years and respect you greatly. And these are my thoughts. And they've not changed a bit over the years.

@I.R.A @Joe Shearer @Kaptaan

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

So Hindu is just a label that wishes to be acknowledged? It is not about whether you can kill and consume cow or not?

Faith and spirituality on the other hand comes directly from God. To a people. From a people. At a time of their greatest need. And point of inflection on their evolution. When they are ready.

I can give you reference of Divine message for this exact same thing ........ being said for every Messenger and religion before and for Islam ......... would that change your views about Islam? Will you believe that?

Religion comes from man sir. It is a man-made construct. Places of worship. Priests and clergy. Rules and rituals. Taboos.

Which ones you consider religions and which one you consider faith and spirituality?

 

[padamchen]

So Hindu is just a label that wishes to be acknowledged? It is not about whether you can kill and consume cow or not?



I can give you reference of Divine message for this exact same thing ........ being said for every Messenger and religion before and for Islam ......... would that change your views about Islam? Will you believe that?



Which ones you consider religions and which one you consider faith and spirituality?

It's simple.

Zarathustra was Persian. And brought the message of Ahura Mazda to the Persians.

Moses was old world (Egypt) Jew.

Jesus was new world (Rome) Jew.

Muhammad was Arab. And brought the message of Allah to the Arabs.

Who brought the message of Allah to the Persians and the Hindus?

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

It's simple.

Zarathustra was Persian. And brought the message of Ahura Mazda to the Persians.

Muhammad was Arab. And brought the message of Allah to the Arabs.

Who brought the message of Allah to the Persians and the Hindus?

Cheers, Doc

I think if you look at it from another angle may be you will understand ...... instead of who I would say, why they brought the message of ALLAH to the Persians and the Hindus? The answer to this may not get accepted by you (understandable) but it nowhere diminishes the need for reinforcing Ahura Mazda's new evolved guidance for humanity. The previous one was according to the mental capacity of the people of those times, if you agree that humans have evolved mentally over the course of centuries then you should understand the need for a more logical, comprehensive and complete divine guidance was there ..... a message that should be final and according to mental level of humanity to come so it gets accepted, followed and practiced by them.

 

[padamchen]

I think if you look at it from another angle may be you will understand ...... instead of who I would say, why they brought the message of ALLAH to the Persians and the Hindus? The answer to this may not get accepted by you (understandable) but it nowhere diminishes the need for reinforcing Ahura Mazda's new evolved guidance for humanity. The previous one was according to the mental capacity of the people of those times, if you agree that humans have evolved mentally over the course of centuries then you should understand the need for a more logical, comprehensive and complete divine guidance was there ..... a message that should be final and according to mental level of humanity to come so it gets accepted, followed and practiced by them.

So I guess then, by your logic, the time is over-ripe for the coming of the next Prophet (Messenger for you) anytime now.

And guess where and which people need Him most?

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

So I guess then, by your logic, the time is over-ripe for the coming of the next Prophet (Messenger for you) anytime now.

And guess where and which people need Him most?

Cheers, Doc

No you have misunderstood me, that time already happened some 1400 plus years ago and message has already been revealed, delivered, practiced and confirmed for completeness. That is why it needed to be spread, You won't understand it unless you read it yourself, research upon it (you are just basing your argument and opinion without knowing the message itself). Its not only for me, its for you too ......... so are you willing to look beyond your understanding that somehow I own the message and it has nothing to do with you? The invitation is simple, read it, understand it and if you still don't believe it ...... your choice, nothing to do with me.