The Taliban will ‘never be defeated’

[prithwidw]

I think the taliban cannot be defeated. US created it against Russia. But too much for US to control it now.

Talibans will emerge as the winners

 

[Solomon2]

I think the taliban cannot be defeated. US created it against Russia.

See my previous post on this thread: link

 

[prithwidw]

See my previous post on this thread: link

Seen and replied.

 

[Desert Fox]

No doubt , being Khan love them also all muslim are just like one body , although i dont agree with style of governance and forced islam methodology of talaban.

My point is ISAF should use political sources , present war is just to force them on peace talk which also wrong method, Talaban shourah can be convinced to lay down their arms , i can assure you but through dialogues not with force.


But ISAF and Obama should also take soft tone , war is not solution of any problem.

yeah, a peaceful dialogue should be the way out of this mess!

 

[Ahmad]

Surrendering and switching side is not something new in Afghanistan's 30 year trouble , look at this report:
Taliban surrendering in Badghis:

HERAT, Afghanistan - With the focus of the Taliban's spring offensive turning increasingly toward the northwestern provinces adjoining Iran, rather than on the southwest, the next few months could prove pivotal in the ongoing insurgency against North Atlantic Treaty Organization-led forces.

Indeed, within the space of a few hours the surprises included the surrender of 40 Taliban and a mass Taliban attack on district police outposts.

On Saturday morning in Herat, this correspondent witnessed the surrender of 40 Taliban under the government's Takhim-e-Solh - Program for Strengthening Peace and Reconciliation (PTS) - which is aimed primarily at the Taliban and members of the Hizb-i-Islami of warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.

All of those handing themselves over hailed from Badghis province, Herat province's immediate northerly neighbor. Under tight security, the Taliban were accommodated in a guesthouse, after which they handed over their weapons. These included mortars, light machine-guns, AK-47 rifles, shells and rockets.

The PTS now has 11 regional offices, and more than 2,500 former Taliban fighters and other insurgents have left the battlefield and joined the program.

The Herat provincial head of the PTS, Mohammed Sharif Mojadidi, told Asia Times Online that in the past year and a half, about 800 Taliban and fighters loyal to Hekmatyar had surrendered their weapons to his office.

Those who are qualified enough are given government jobs and others are simply given an amnesty and allowed to return to their towns and villages in peace.

The Taliban surrendering on Saturday were reluctant to speak, let alone give their names or details, so it is difficult to say what motivated them. Certainly many of them looked positively terrified, presumably thinking of what might happen to them should the Taliban find out about them.

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news - A Taliban surrender and a mass attack

Here's the video of another taliban commander surrendering in Herat to the Government of Afghanistan:

Herat is now a peaceful province, economy is flouresing(spelling) economy, Iran has heavily invested in these areas, NGOs are deeply involved, roads, buildings, hospitals, trade, schools, many many things have brought life back to this historic and one of the main cultural centres of afghansitan. And since the Taliban have surrendered or being killed in this province, the security have greatly improved.

here is another report that the taliban surrenedred in Herat:

KABUL, Oct. 14 (Xinhua) -- Over 68 Taliban insurgents laid down their arms and surrendered to the government in western Herat province of Afghanistan on Wednesday, head of Strengthening Peace Committee Hazrat Sharif Mujadadi said.

　　"Fifty insurgents from Gazara and Pashtun Zarghon districts laid down their arms today and vowed not to fight against the government," Mujadadi told Xinhua.

　　Senior military commander of Afghan forces in the province General Jalandar Shah Behnam also said that 18 more insurgents from both the above districts surrendered to the government troops Wednesday.

　　Their surrender took place in the wake of the killing of Taliban key commander Ghulam Yahya Akbari days ago.

68 militants surrender in W. Afghanistan

 

[Parashuram1]

It is very disturbing to see the level of happiness Silent Ninja and Fundamentalist show towards the Taliban's violent and uncivilized methods of oppressive ruling. And for those of you who are relying on the "Soviet got defeated by the Taliban mujahideens" was 50% because the Mujahideen had total support of more than 25 NATO countries against 1 Soviet Union. Though I am not a fan of Communism and dislike their cold methods, being neutral I would say that Soviets fought valiantly. It was unexpected for United States to fall in the same well that it had seen Soviet Union fall into.

Today the case is different. Except for maybe a handful of Pakistanis (majority of your countrymen hate the Taliban and have expressed in clear words) like you, Taliban has no support; not even from the Arab states. The only financial support is through rogue channels managed by fanatic supporters in government misappropriating national wealth, versus the might of 30 countries and the political support of more than 50.

Remember that even though Americans, Iranians, Russians, Indians and Chinese are all separate countries none of them militarily aligned to the other (with former two on a collision course) even these countries are against the thought of Taliban ever rising. So even arch-rivals and estranged countries have united against Taliban and this shows that except for fundamentalists like some of you, the entire world including the people of your country and your government support the efforts against these terrorists. Let me tell you why each of these countries have same interest despite different political ideologies.

1) United States/NATO: To quell fundamentalist terrorism and avoiding any future attacks on its soil.

2) Iranians: Sensitive to Shiite cause and to avoid any further massacres of Shiite Muslims in future.

3) Russians: Vital stakes in Central Asia (CIS countries) at threat from Islamist fundamentalism and a threat to their area of influence. Also Taliban may offer refuge to terrorists operating in Chechen areas of Russian Federation. Even vengeance can be a possibility. Russians are well-known for punishing those who attack them.

4) Indians: Wary about their potential access to Central Asia and after the haven provided by Talibans to the Indian Airlines hijackers, an idea of how many terrorists against Indian government can Taliban help and wreak havoc in South Asia.

5) Chinese: To quell Islamist fundamentalism and the uprising of potential terrorism in their own country, which out of unwarranted emotions might be supported by Taliban and their AQ allies. Please refer to the threat of Al-Qaeda to bomb Chinese cities.

So you see, the so-called "invincible" Taliban has only support of individual fundamentalists and religious fascists who are themselves living in luxury with all modern facilities in democratic countries but continue to blindly support a terrorist organization who claims to be the savior of Islam even after massacring innocent fellow-Muslims in Afghanistan.

 

[Desert Fox]

It is very disturbing to see the level of happiness Silent Ninja and Fundamentalist show towards the Taliban's violent and uncivilized methods of oppressive ruling.

and you think Taliban are violent and oppressive? Wait till you go to this link:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/677417-post213.html

 

[S-2]

Nicely presented. Good luck.

Thanks.

 

[Parashuram1]

and you think Taliban are violent and oppressive? Wait till you go to this link:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/677417-post213.html

I have seen the link myself and thank you for reminding me about it. So you plan to take isolated incidents of individual damage as an excuse to re-install a terrorist regime that conducted routine horrors against its population and also supporting terrorists from world around? Warzones are hotspots of every possible forms of violence and it is a well-known fact. Apart from possibly considering the half-baked and illogical conspiracy theories flying around in this forum, there is no reason for ISAF to stay in Afghanistan other than stabilize the country and ensure that it doesn't become a haven to all fundamentalist terrorist organizations.

If you are going to say that ISAF is here for strategic reasons, I would agree partially with you because nothing comes for free. Fighting Taliban apart from protecting the Afghans is an act of protecting a host of countries in South and West Asia that would suffer greatly from the lunacy that Taliban consider as "just" law. And in order to do this, resources are needed to compensate the losses that are being made in the events of a war.

As I had earlier said in one post, during wars such dirty things do happen and this is very unfortunate and bad. For this, those individuals must be punished which they are. I would like to see a Taliban local leader accept the guilt from allegations of the local population honestly. You don't go blaming the entire country to be responsible what one or two cheap-mentality soldiers have done to embarrass their countries

The thing here is that while most Afghans are not very pleased with the current government, they are seeing a potential for development of their country which is why majority are supportive. Plus, in such a chaotic environment, even the words of this poor innocent woman are doubtful as she might have been threatened by Taliban to speak against the ISAF at gunpoint. If you call the other people's proofs as untruthful words, how can you believe this claim which is also after all a set of words? This is called selective blindness.

My statements on this thread and many other, have the backing and valid claims from not just NATO (mind you, Switzerland is not a part of NATO or any military alliance.. we are neutral) but also from official policies of militarily non-involved countries like Iran, CIS, Russia, China and India which makes substantial enough evidence for all other countries to believe. It is not possible for such diverse set of countries to think in the same line until there is genuinely a problem, which there is BIG TIME.

From what impression you and your Fundamentalist pal have given here, you want Afghanistan to be your strategic base and backyard for God-knows-what, without giving a damn to an Afghan's words here.

 

[Thomas]

Here is one example of why the Taliban will lose. Disgusting how they like to use children to carry out their nefarious tactics.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\02\18\story_18-2-2010_pg12_4



TTP man held; was in city to train 270 teenage girls as suicide bombers

KARACHI: The Crime Investigation Department on Wednesday claimed to have arrested a Taliban commander who was in the city to train 270 teenage girls as suicide bombers. As per CID officials, Abdullah alias Abu Waqas - a Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan commander for Bajaur’s Naimatullah group - was arrested near Safoora Goth Chowrangi in Karachi where, according to the accused, he had arrived to visit the members of his underground group. In a raid on a tip-off, a CID team arrested the TTP commander and recovered a loaded TT pistol, jihadi literature and CDs from his possession.

As per the officials, the TTP man had revealed that he had to train 270 teenage girls aged between 13 and 16 for suicide attacks. He also confessed that he had been involved in various terrorism activities in his hometown including targeting security forces and check-posts, and girls’ schools, the officials added. staff report

Here is another reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Thor#Exposing_Taliban_Pornography_Ring

Exposing Taliban Pornography Ring

In January of 2010, Brad broke the story of the murder and pornography ring being run in Pakistan and Afghanistan by the Taliban's Haqqani network. Through his sources, he was able to secure a video showing the forced sexual assault of young Pashtun women by members of the Haqqani family. The pornography ring centered around Sirajuddin Haqqani's doctor, Hassan Duraz, who was sent throughout the AfPak theater to offer medical care to those villages willing to contribute young Muslim men to fight for the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Dr. Duraz was accomanied on these trips by Siraj Haqqani's uncle, Ibrahim and Haqqani's cousin, Ishak.

When word of the Haqqani pornography ring leaked, Siraj Haqqani had his doctor, as well as the girls who had been raped and sexually assaulted in the videos, killed. He also attempted to destroy all of the remaining evidence, but several of the tapes were salvaged and smuggled out by mid-level Taliban commanders disenchanted with the Haqqani family's hypocrisy.

The Haqqani network is known as the "backbone" of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and have been responsible for many of the deadliest and most audacious attacks in the region including the Camp Chapman attack, the 2008 Kabul Serena Hotel attack, and the Kidnapping of David Rohde.

Brad's thriller, The Apostle is based in part upon the Haqqani family and their terror network.

***I won't post the link for the Video. But it can be found through a Google search. Even though some of it is blacked out. I believe it would still be to indecent to post.

 

[PakSher]

Talibaan need to defeated at every cost. They will not progress and they will never let any body else get educated and economically successful. Allah does not want people to pray 24/7. All prophets had a profession, Moses was a shephered, Jesus was a carpenter and Mohammad was a merhcnat. Talibaan want to to pray all day, commit home sexual acts when not praying, smoke hasish and force their brand of Islam of the majority. Screw them to hell. Let the Talibaan list 10 thinks they did to benefit the population they ruled. Yes during their time, they built a telephone exchange in Kabul, but China built it, other progress zerrrrrrrrrrrrrroo.

 

[S-2]

"Siraj Haqqani had ... the girls who had been raped and sexually assaulted in the videos, killed..."

Very, very sad. FATA has been devastated by these men and the murders of the tribal maliks is only the tip of the iceberg.

Thanks.

 

[waraich66]

It is very disturbing to see the level of happiness Silent Ninja and Fundamentalist show towards the Taliban's violent and uncivilized methods of oppressive ruling. And for those of you who are relying on the "Soviet got defeated by the Taliban mujahideens" was 50% because the Mujahideen had total support of more than 25 NATO countries against 1 Soviet Union. Though I am not a fan of Communism and dislike their cold methods, being neutral I would say that Soviets fought valiantly. It was unexpected for United States to fall in the same well that it had seen Soviet Union fall into.

Today the case is different. Except for maybe a handful of Pakistanis (majority of your countrymen hate the Taliban and have expressed in clear words) like you, Taliban has no support; not even from the Arab states. The only financial support is through rogue channels managed by fanatic supporters in government misappropriating national wealth, versus the might of 30 countries and the political support of more than 50.

Remember that even though Americans, Iranians, Russians, Indians and Chinese are all separate countries none of them militarily aligned to the other (with former two on a collision course) even these countries are against the thought of Taliban ever rising. So even arch-rivals and estranged countries have united against Taliban and this shows that except for fundamentalists like some of you, the entire world including the people of your country and your government support the efforts against these terrorists. Let me tell you why each of these countries have same interest despite different political ideologies.

1) United States/NATO: To quell fundamentalist terrorism and avoiding any future attacks on its soil.

2) Iranians: Sensitive to Shiite cause and to avoid any further massacres of Shiite Muslims in future.

3) Russians: Vital stakes in Central Asia (CIS countries) at threat from Islamist fundamentalism and a threat to their area of influence. Also Taliban may offer refuge to terrorists operating in Chechen areas of Russian Federation. Even vengeance can be a possibility. Russians are well-known for punishing those who attack them.

4) Indians: Wary about their potential access to Central Asia and after the haven provided by Talibans to the Indian Airlines hijackers, an idea of how many terrorists against Indian government can Taliban help and wreak havoc in South Asia.

5) Chinese: To quell Islamist fundamentalism and the uprising of potential terrorism in their own country, which out of unwarranted emotions might be supported by Taliban and their AQ allies. Please refer to the threat of Al-Qaeda to bomb Chinese cities.

So you see, the so-called "invincible" Taliban has only support of individual fundamentalists and religious fascists who are themselves living in luxury with all modern facilities in democratic countries but continue to blindly support a terrorist organization who claims to be the savior of Islam even after massacring innocent fellow-Muslims in Afghanistan.

You forget the devine support , average mind can judge that , why after lot of opposition and 40+ nations support ISAF is badly failing ?????????

NATO cammanders admitted this fact that talaban can not be defeated .

Do you think those people had first hand experience are fool and you are the only vissionary

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...ost-initiative-against-taliban_100292578.html

 

[Icarus]

clearly Taliban are gaining support!

PROVE IT.....................get me a survey, a report, any evidence will suffice...............

 

[Ahmad]

and you think Taliban are violent and oppressive? Wait till you go to this link:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/677417-post213.html

UN confirms Taliban massacre of ethnic minority




ISLAMABAD, Sept 11,1998 (AFP) - The United Nations here Friday said Afghanistan's Taliban militia massacred thousands of ethnic-Hazara people when they seized the opposition stronghold of Mazar-i-Sharif last month.


Amnesty International had alleged the Taliban massacred thousands of the minority Hazara comunity in the days following their capture of the northern Afghan city on August 8.


The Taliban rejected the Amnesty report.





Taliban killed 4,000 in ethnic cleansing drive
By Ahmed Rashid in Islamabad
Electronic Telegraph, September 10,1998, Issue 1203
BETWEEN 4,000 and 6,000 Afghan Hazaras - three times more than recent Amnesty International estimates - were massacred by the Taliban when they captured areas of northern Afghanistan last month, according to diplomats.

The envoys described the killings as a deliberate campaign of ethnic cleansing by the Islamic fundamentalist militia. Diplomats, United Nations officials and aid workers say thousands of Hazaras, mostly males, were killed in front of their families in Mazar-i-Sharif, capital of the anti-Taliban alliance in northern Afghanistan, when the Taliban captured the city last month.

A senior diplomat who has interviewed dozens of Hazara families said: "Young men over 16 were brought out of their houses into the streets and had their throats slit in a ritualistic killing. Younger boys had both hands chopped off at the wrist."

An aid worker said Hazara bodies were left in the streets for days, and people trying to escape from the city were shot. The aid worker said: "They were mutilating children and telling them, 'You will never fight us again'."

The Hazaras, a Mongol people who form some 15 per cent of the country's 18 million population, have resisted Taliban offensives for the past four years from their strongholds in the Hindu Kush mountains.

The Hazaras are Shia Muslims, whom the Sunni Taliban loathe. Iran, which is predominantly Shia, has used the massacre issue as a reasons to mobilise 70,000 troops on the Iran-Afghanistan border.

Last week, Amnesty International released a report saying that thousands of Hazaras were killed in Mazar. But aid workers and diplomats who left the city after the Taliban takeover and have met Hazaras who escaped, say the number of dead could be much higher.

UN confirms Taliban massacre of ethnic minority

This report documents two massacres committed by Taliban forces in the central highlands of Afghanistan, in January 2001and May 2000. In both cases the victims were primarily Hazaras, a Shia Muslim ethnic group that has been the target of previous massacres and other serious human rights violations by Taliban forces. These massacres took place in the context of the six-year war between the Taliban and parties now grouped in the United National Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan (the 'United Front'), in which international human rights and humanitarian law have been repeatedly violated by the warring factions. Ethnic and religious minorities, and the Hazaras in particular, have been especially vulnerable in areas of conflict, and Taliban forces have committed large-scale abuses against Hazara civilians with impunity. In this report Human Rights Watch calls upon the United Nations to investigate both massacres and to systematically monitor human rights and humanitarian law violations by all parties to Afghanistan's civil war.

UNHCR | Refworld | Afghanistan: Massacres of Hazaras in Afghanistan

Taleban kill Afghanistan reporter

Ajmal Naqshbandi worked as a guide for visiting reporters
The Taleban in Afghanistan have killed an Afghan reporter abducted last month with an Italian journalist.
The group said it had killed Ajmal Naqshbandi because the government had refused to meet its demands to release senior figures from prison.

Italian reporter Daniele Mastrogiacomo was released after five Taleban members were freed in exchange. The driver, Sayed Agha, was beheaded last month.

Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi has condemned Mr Naqshbandi's killing.

The two reporters and their driver were captured on 6 March in Helmand province.

Shohaabuddin Atal, a spokesman for Taleban commander Mullah Dadullah, said: "We killed Ajmal today because the government did not respond to our demands."

Italian deal

The Afghan government's intelligence services spokesman, Saeed Ansari, confirmed Mr Naqshbandi had been killed.


Mr Mastrogiacomo was freed in an exchange with Taleban prisoners

Tom Koenigs, UN special envoy to Afghanistan, said: "I condemn this senseless murder unreservedly and call on the authorities to bring those responsible to justice."

In Italy, Mr Prodi said he "learned with anguish" of Mr Naqshbandi's death. "We strongly condemn this absurd crime," he said.

Ajmal Naqshbandi worked as a guide and translator for visiting foreign reporters.

He was abducted with Mr Mastrogiacomo and their driver at a Taleban checkpoint and originally accused of spying for the British army.

The reporters' driver was beheaded to put pressure on negotiations for their release.

The BBC's Mark Dummett in Kabul says after intense lobbying from the Italians, a deal was done. Five Taleban were allowed to go and Mr Mastrogiacomo was set free.

Our correspondent says there was outrage in Afghanistan that the government would firstly bow to its enemy's demands and secondly that it would save a foreigner but not an Afghan.

The Taleban are still holding five government medics and two French aid workers along with three Afghan colleagues. Their fate will be decided next, they say.

President Hamid Karzai has ruled out any more hostage deals with the Taleban.

"[Mr Mastrogiacomo] was an extraordinary situation and won't be repeated again," Mr Karzai said on Friday. "No more deals with no-one and with no other country."

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Taleban kill Afghanistan reporter

This was a handfull of their atrocities, they have done similar things in other provinces as well to the other people.