The Taliban will ‘never be defeated’

[Icarus]

BTW, what kind of human being would forget about the death of their family members and take money from those who killed them?

Atleast they are given some thing to try and reduce the suffering of the family, by supporting them, it is ensured that they will never be dependant on anyone, but do the taliban offer any form of compensation to the victims of their bomb blasts ? Last time I checked, they didn't.......................They don't care if the people they kill are their own countrymen......scratch that...............their own family, as long as the body count is high............

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I didn't know you were being sarcastic, Sarcasm isn't allowed, read forum rules:

"Sarcastic posts
We do not allow people to post sarcastic post at all. They are a very pathetic way in the end to back things up. They will be deleted on sight."

Did you even read forum rules before joining defence.pk?

are you telling this to ME,
there is a rule for 'personal attack' as well
do read your own posts as well ok

No, it was different, very different! In fact TTP were forcing girls into marriage with their men, but Afghan Taliban never did that!

I know you are going to reject it as propaganda

Many families were reportedly forced to marry off their daughters to members of the Taliban. Taliban members abducted countless women and ...
Independent Lens . AFGHANISTAN UNVEILED . Afghan Women's Rights | PBS

I can prove you wrong many times, but your ignorance doesn't want to to believe, but one day you will have to face reality

same applies on you, ain't eh?

No, their not, its just western propaganda.

so now who was saying this,your ignorance doesn't want to to believe
when same western sources report bad about Taliban they are bad but once they say something slightly good they are all right

nice try, but i already know ground reality, no need to bring in propaganda posts

ranting again, are you tied to some insurgent teams??
every thing provided by me is propaganda

No, Taliban evil is greater then ISAF evil (according to you)!

how many times i have repeat, My evil is not smaller than yours, EVIL IS EVIL, your ognorace don't want you to believe

Said who, RAWA? CNN? BBC? Fox News? MSNBC? NY times? Did any of these channels (propaganda channels who cover up American atrocities committed in Muslims countries) tell you this?

I hope this ain't propaganda

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US soldier guilty of Iraq murder

BBC NEWS | Americas | US ex-soldier guilty of Iraq rape

Steve Green : U.S. soldier sentenced to life in Iraq murder case - Nachrichten English-News - WELT ONLINE

Iraq: US Soldier Convicted Of 2007 Murder

Nope, Taliban "evil" (that's if they did evil) is much much less than American, NATO, indian, and israeli evil!

Like i said, if had control of world media i would also broadcast propaganda against America, israel, and india NATO 24/7!

at least you agree Taliban is evil

You don't make sense in your above post, if someone brakes into your house and rapes your mom or sister, would you start picking up a book and educating yourself? or would you pick up a gun and defend your god given right?

I never ever brought in Iraq, I was talking about the importance of political process & Education in Afgh, & from no where you brought in Iraq, we can have a thread on Iraq, We are here talking about Afgh not IRAQ

PS: many of big fishes are going down & great thing is they are talking in custody of Pakistani Agencies

 

[Desert Fox]

I know you are going to reject it as propaganda

It is propaganda! More than half the things they show is lies!

same applies on you, ain't eh?

No it doesn't, the biggest proof is the ground reality, NATO, America are losing! Stanley McChrystal (spelling?) said Taliban have upper hand because they have support of the people!

Operation Moshtarak is a complete failure, Taliban will recover!

so now who was saying this,your ignorance doesn't want to to believe

I was saying it and i was right when i said it! Like i said before, ground reality is different, Taliban will never be defeated no matter what BBC, RAWA, CNN, or Fox News says

when same western sources report bad about Taliban they are bad but once they say something slightly good they are all right

They said something good about Taliban?

ranting again, are you tied to some insurgent teams??

No, i'm not, and your telling me about "personal attacks"?

every thing provided by me is propaganda

Yes it is.

how many times i have repeat, My evil is not smaller than yours, EVIL IS EVIL, your ognorace don't want you to believe

I'm not ignorant, i just know the reality, the reality that you fail to understand!

I hope this ain't propaganda

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US soldier guilty of Iraq murder

BBC NEWS | Americas | US ex-soldier guilty of Iraq rape

Steve Green : U.S. soldier sentenced to life in Iraq murder case - Nachrichten English-News - WELT ONLINE

Iraq: US Soldier Convicted Of 2007 Murder

The punishment they gave them was not enough, they should have been executed!

And what about all the other hundreds of Iraqi women who were raped in Abu Ghraib, and what about all those little Iraqi girls sold into child sex slavery and prostitution by Black water? These propaganda channels/sites fail to highlight the other numerous atrocities committed by western "civilized" armies against Muslims!

at least you agree Taliban is evil

Yeah, they made some mistakes because after all their not angels! But compare their mistakes to crimes committed by western "civilized" nations and you'll see big difference!

I never ever brought in Iraq, I was talking about the importance of political process & Education in Afgh, & from no where you brought in Iraq, we can have a thread on Iraq, We are here talking about Afgh not IRAQ

You said MUSLIMS shouldn't use guns, so basically you were talking about Muslims as a whole which includes Iraq and other Muslim countries that are resisting occupiers!

Seriously, do you even know what your talking about? And you say i rant? shows your hypocrisy.

PS: many of big fishes are going down & great thing is they are talking in custody of Pakistani Agencies

Mullah Baradar was given up by Afghan Taliban and Mullah Omar because he wanted negotiations with the Americans, and we all know Taliban's log term stand is that they will not negotiate unless all foreign entities have left the country! American tired to play a game with Taliban by trying to split the movement by bribing Mullah Baradar and weakening Mullah Omar, but Mullah Omar and other senior commanders aren't that stupid like the American consider them! Mullah Omar gave away Mullah Baradars location to Americans and Americans captured him in Karachi! For Americans this was a way to show the whole world that they are making progress, but in reality they only captured a traitor in the ranks of Taliban, and instead this benefited Taliban, not ISAF!

National Review: Realities Of The Taliban Capture : NPR

Like i said a thousand times, you can not defeat Taliban no matter what! And not only am i saying this but so is "Colonel Imam" in the article on the first page of this thread! Talibs aint stupid


And this isn't the first time Taliban movement lost a big commander! You might remember Mullah Dadullah. He was known as the most feared Taliban commander in Afghanistan, he was later "killed" by NATO (some say Afghan Taliban themselves killed him), and his death had no impact on Taliban movement! In fact, as you have seen in recent years, Taliban have gained more momentum and strength!


There's a saying "What does not destroy me, makes me stronger".

The former Soviet army Generals and red army veterans are probably laughing when they see this "operation Moshtarak" that these American are making a big deal out of! Their probably like "been there, done that"! You see, what the Americans are doing now was already done and tried by the Russians!

 

[Desert Fox]

PROVE IT.....................get me a survey, a report, any evidence will suffice...............

Alright, you better keep your word, don't start ranting "oh that's not enough", or "that doesn't prove anything"! Like i said, i can prove you wrong a thousand times but your ignorance won't let you believe!

And the biggest proof is in front of you!!!! What world do you live in?

Taliban have gained more support and strength!

Report: Taliban Gaining Strength In Afghanistan : NPR

Taliban gaining strength in Afghanistan: report - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Desert Fox]

I have seen the link myself and thank you for reminding me about it. So you plan to take isolated incidents of individual damage as an excuse to re-install a terrorist regime that conducted routine horrors against its population and also supporting terrorists from world around? Warzones are hotspots of every possible forms of violence and it is a well-known fact. Apart from possibly considering the half-baked and illogical conspiracy theories flying around in this forum, there is no reason for ISAF to stay in Afghanistan other than stabilize the country and ensure that it doesn't become a haven to all fundamentalist terrorist organizations.

If you are going to say that ISAF is here for strategic reasons, I would agree partially with you because nothing comes for free. Fighting Taliban apart from protecting the Afghans is an act of protecting a host of countries in South and West Asia that would suffer greatly from the lunacy that Taliban consider as "just" law. And in order to do this, resources are needed to compensate the losses that are being made in the events of a war.

As I had earlier said in one post, during wars such dirty things do happen and this is very unfortunate and bad. For this, those individuals must be punished which they are. I would like to see a Taliban local leader accept the guilt from allegations of the local population honestly. You don't go blaming the entire country to be responsible what one or two cheap-mentality soldiers have done to embarrass their countries

I never said anything against an entire nation, Americans are cool people!

The thing here is that while most Afghans are not very pleased with the current government, they are seeing a potential for development of their country which is why majority are supportive. Plus, in such a chaotic environment, even the words of this poor innocent woman are doubtful as she might have been threatened by Taliban to speak against the ISAF at gunpoint. If you call the other people's proofs as untruthful words, how can you believe this claim which is also after all a set of words? This is called selective blindness.

My statements on this thread and many other, have the backing and valid claims from not just NATO (mind you, Switzerland is not a part of NATO or any military alliance.. we are neutral) but also from official policies of militarily non-involved countries like Iran, CIS, Russia, China and India which makes substantial enough evidence for all other countries to believe. It is not possible for such diverse set of countries to think in the same line until there is genuinely a problem, which there is BIG TIME.

From what impression you and your Fundamentalist pal have given here, you want Afghanistan to be your strategic base and backyard for God-knows-what, without giving a damn to an Afghan's words here.

what about America and how they systematically removed all Natives from their lands? And all those millions of Native American killed and massacred, wasn't that a genocide? And now those poor people are a minority and live in reserves as if they are some Animals in a Zoo?

Keep posting nonsense and i'll be happy to refute/counter you

 

[Ahmad]

Alright, you better keep your word, don't start ranting "oh that's not enough", or "that doesn't prove anything"! Like i said, i can prove you wrong a thousand times but your ignorance won't let you believe!

And the biggest proof is in front of you!!!! What world do you live in?

Taliban have gained more support and strength!

Report: Taliban Gaining Strength In Afghanistan : NPR

Taliban gaining strength in Afghanistan: report - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

BBC News - Afghans more optimistic for future, survey shows

The links you provided are for 2008, although there is no doubt the Taliban have gained strenght, but gaining strenght is not equal to being popular. According to a BBC poll people of Afghanistan are more optimistic and have more trust their president, having said that they think the taliban are least popular in Afghanistan. Only 6% of people of AFghanistan are in favour of the Taliban. Here is the report:



Most Afghans are increasingly optimistic about the state of their country, a poll commissioned by the BBC, ABC News and Germany's ARD shows.

Of more than 1,500 Afghans questioned, 70% said they believed Afghanistan was going in the right direction - a big jump from 40% a year ago.

Of those questioned, 68% now back the presence of US troops in Afghanistan, compared with 63% a year ago.

For Nato troops, including UK forces, support has risen from 59% to 62%.


READ THE FULL REPORT
Poll of Afghan opinion, 11-23 December 2009 [779 KB]
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Afghans react to the poll

The survey was conducted in all of the country's 34 provinces in December 2009.

In 2009 only 51% of those surveyed had expected improvement and 13% thought conditions would deteriorate.

But in the latest survey 71% said they were optimistic about the situation in 12 months' time, compared with 5% who said it would be worse.

The other significant theme which emerges from the figures is growing antipathy towards the Taliban.

Ninety per cent said they wanted their country run by the current government, compared with 6% who said they favoured a Taliban administration.

Sixty-nine per cent believed the Taliban posed the biggest danger to the country, and 66% blamed the Taliban, al-Qaeda and foreign militants for violence in Afghanistan.

Most Afghans appeared positive about the presence of troops from Nato and other countries stationed in Afghanistan.

The survey also asked if people thought it was good or bad that US forces entered Afghanistan in 2001 to drive out the Taliban. Of those questioned, 83% said it was either very good or mostly good. This compares with 69% for 2009.

However, more of those questioned believe troops with the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) are now worse at avoiding civilian casualties (43% worse and 24% better).

There was some ambivalence about how long Isaf forces should remain in the country - 22% said they should leave within the next 18 months, and 21% said they should stay longer than 18 months from now.

Afghans appear more positive about their general living conditions and the availability of electricity, medical care and jobs compared with a year ago.

Insecurity and crime were slightly worse, they said, and freedom of movement slightly better.

Despite a presidential election last year mired in controversy over ballot rigging, 74% said they were either very satisfied or somewhat satisfied with the outcome.

Also, 72% of Afghans rated President Hamid Karzai as excellent or good - compared with 52% 12 months ago - and 60% rated the performance of the present government as good or excellent, as opposed to 10% who thought it was poor.

One of the major issues facing Afghanistan is corruption among government officials or the police.

Of those surveyed, 95% identified it as a problem; 76% said it was a big problem and 19% said they considered it a moderate problem.

 

[Ahmad]

I couldnt post the other details, you need to open the link.

 

[Desert Fox]

i don't get it, what part of "Taliban will never be defeated" don't you understand? Post as many charts and graphs as you like, your not going to change the ground reality!

 

[Ahmad]

i don't get it, what part of "Taliban will never be defeated" don't you understand? Post as many charts and graphs as you like, your not going to change the ground reality!

I dont understand one part of it. If somebody is not popular how come they will win the war. They surely gaining strenght. But they are not popular. dont you think TTP is not strong enough? Can you say they are defeating the pakistani army? you cant have it both ways. Give arms and amunitions to a bunch of thieves they can disrupt the whole city that you wont live your life, but it doesnt mean they are wining. Wining is something and being capable of desruption and destruction is something else. Thats what both TTP and AFghani taliban can do.

 

[Thomas]

The former Soviet army Generals and red army veterans are probably laughing when they see this "operation Moshtarak" that these American are making a big deal out of! Their probably like "been there, done that"! You see, what the Americans are doing now was already done and tried by the Russians!

Please explain to me how the Taliban of today resemble the Mujaheddin of the Soviet invasion years. The Mujaheddin then numbered upwards of 140,000 operating out of almost 4000 bases. They could muster upwards of 10,000 fighters at any one time to repel major Soviet assaults. And they had far more sophisticated weaponry in large numbers then the Taliban today have.

One thing that is true compared to the Soviet years. Like the Soviets who would always withdraw to their compounds from constant Mujaheddin assaults. The ISAF in the past has withdrawn from areas becuase of lack of troops. That is and has changed now. Marja is a good example. Once Marja is taken there will remain a ISAF and Afghan Government presence So the Taliban can not come back in to Govern. And that process will be repeated throughout Afghanistan.

Also can you explain to me why the Taliban can not muster the amount of fighters like the Soviet invasion years? Could it be becuase they do not enjoy the amount of support you would like people to think?

 

[Desert Fox]

Please explain to me how the Taliban of today resemble the Mujaheddin of the Soviet invasion years. The Mujaheddin then numbered upwards of 140,000 operating out of almost 4000 bases. They could muster upwards of 10,000 fighters at any one time to repel major Soviet assaults. And they had far more sophisticated weaponry in large numbers then the Taliban today have.

Dude, you don't make sense here! Your acting like the Mujahideen back then were a different race and the Taliban of today are Aliens from outer space! Just because today they appose your interests in the region doesn't make them "different"!

The same Jallaludin Haqani whom your president Reagan invited to Washington, the Same Gulbudin Heckmatyar and the same Hizb-e-Islami and the same Mullah Omar who lost his right eye in combat against the Soviets!

The only difference is that back then you people called them freedom fighters, and today you call them "terrorists", "insurgents", and "religious extremists" because their your enemies now!

One thing that is true compared to the Soviet years. Like the Soviets who would always withdraw to their compounds from constant Mujaheddin assaults. The ISAF in the past has withdrawn from areas becuase of lack of troops. That is and has changed now. Marja is a good example. Once Marja is taken there will remain a ISAF and Afghan Government presence So the Taliban can not come back in to Govern. And that process will be repeated throughout Afghanistan.

Also can you explain to me why the Taliban can not muster the amount of fighters like the Soviet invasion years? Could it be becuase they do not enjoy the amount of support you would like people to think?

I feel really sad for you people! Taliban are in few number yet they give your generals and commanders such a headache! BTW, Taliban are in large numbers, your army and media just hide the truth fearing that the people back home will feel demoralized and your silly cause will lose support. Your media and army sugar coat things too much! If 1 American or Nato soldier is killed they'll say 25 militants have been killed! If you go on youtube you'll find many videos of American and NATO bases being overran by Taliban fighters (show's that they do have large numbers)! There was a video where a group of Taliban fighters were engaging American soldiers and shot and wounded the Americans and finally went up to them and killed them with bayonet, at the end of the video the Taliban were holding up a 20$ bill that they found from the Americans they killed! Like i said before, ground reality is different!

And Mostarak is a joke, i can assure you this for sure! 15,000 NATO, American and Afghan forces with backup from artillery, helicopters, and armored vehicles vs 1,000 Taliban?

Its like trying to kill a fly with a sledge hammer! Seriously, who do you guys think your fooling?

Marjah isn't different from any other operation conducted by NATO, America, and Afghan forces! This one is only getting publicity!

lol, even CNN is smart enough to keep out the propaganda this time

Soviet commander: U.S. faces similar Afghan fate - CNN.com

The more troops you increase in Afghanistan, the more the war will become costly, and the more America will become in debt, and your economy will fall apart, and your countrymen will lose jobs! But the sad part is you didn't learn from the mistakes of others! I guess you don't care about your country!

 

[S-2]

The most salient difference between the mujahideen whom did battle against the Soviet Union and today's taliban is that the mujahideen received the support of the world's nations. Not so at all for the taliban.

Huge difference.

Thanks.

 

[waraich66]

The most salient difference between the mujahideen whom did battle against the Soviet Union and today's taliban is that the mujahideen received the support of the world's nations. Not so at all for the taliban.

Huge difference.

Thanks.

They dont need any support from any country ,Allah is supporting them , nine year war with ISAF without any support is enough for normal person to understand that they have devine support , their core strength is Iman

 

[Parashuram1]

what about America and how they systematically removed all Natives from their lands? And all those millions of Native American killed and massacred, wasn't that a genocide? And now those poor people are a minority and live in reserves as if they are some Animals in a Zoo?

Keep posting nonsense and i'll be happy to refute/counter you

So you want to take a 200+ year old incident to justify the killing of innocent Afghans at the hands of Taliban? How is that even connected to Americans in first place, sonny Jim? Did today's Americans kill their indigenous population for you to settle this score with Taliban justifying American attacks on Red Indians as a means to kill and oppress innocent Afghans?

As for refuting my comments, keep doing it. This is perhaps the reason why your fellow countrymen are suffering.. because people like you waste your time here meaninglessly countering valid and proven facts instead of accepting the reality and moving on. Are you actually living in Pakistan? Have you lost your family member at the hands of your own government? If not, then you don't have the right to comment on behalf of Afghanistan.

Past history has shown that you argue only for the sake of arguing and no substance at all. To you and that Fundamentalist, this seems like a debate contest and not any concern of what is happening to your neighbourhood.

You seem to believe Gen. McChrystal's words on Taliban gaining grounds in Afghanistan but the same words when said that Talibans are weakening in another press report, you deny it. This is called selective blindness and basically choosing what you feel is convenient for you. Suit yourself if you think that these savage terrorists are even going to win against the forces of good.

ISAF might be very weak by the time it pulls out but they would eventually emerge victorious. Why? Because the entire civilized world stand in support of their action, including their former and present political rivals (read here as Russia and China). Why this support because no one wants a fundamentalist bunch of perverted lunatics of some alien faith or culture creating havoc in one's country, especially if that country shares a region with the 'infected' zone.

 

[Parashuram1]

They dont need any support from any country ,Allah is supporting them , nine year war with ISAF without any support is enough for normal person to understand that they have devine support , their core strength is Iman

Do you actually believe this nonsense of "Divine Army"? Man.. in the case you are accusing God of being partial. To Him, you(Taliban and supporters) are technically the same as the Americans. If He is taking into accounts the sin of Americans what they did as old as 200+ years back as your pal Silent Ninja says, then God would also be taking into account the atrocities that you lot might have committed upon someone else since an equal amount of time till date. And this Neutrality of God becomes one sided as the other side piles up sins and crimes; which is why the better side gets lesser punishment.

That's the beauty of Nature; it is perfectly, and totally neutral.

You actually think that Taliban is winning? Even if hypothetically it wins, winning for what? Thousands of its own citizens it has been the cause of killing, the country has turned into a nightmare for any sane person to stay there. No medical facilities, no roads, railways, no aviation industry, no government benefits, no schools, no colleges, no cultural events, NOTHING!!

What is the use of such victory? with ISAF winning, Afghans have a hope of getting at least basic infrastructural facilities and a possible 'human' life. And who knows tomorrow Afghanistan might become like Japan and Singapore? Won't that be far far better than what Taliban could EVER do if at all any good worthy of humans? What would the Taliban rule over? Rubble? Opium? Oppressed innocent boys and tortured young girls? vast barren lands of nothing? How long would they drive those old Soviet tanks and walk around those lifeless stretches of land that they would never be able to develop?

How could you call this a will of God? You are insulting Him by such comments.


What's with your place of residence? Seems like the land of "Unbelievers" is saving your behind from Talibans. How about you live upto your words if you have even slightest bit of honor, leave the comforts of developed and civilized countries of the West and go and fight alongside the Taliban against the "sinning" Americans?

At least honor your own tenets if you cannot respect other's.