The Status of Pakistan's Radar Network During US raid

[SBD-3]

Hi,

You people want to know how pathetic and disgusting the millitary establishment is----the next day after the raid---the cnn media tv is showing young pakistani kids running away with the pieces of the super stealth helicopter-----and there was no security detail that had encircled the area of the crime scene-----hours and hours after the action taken-----civilians kids had access to the top secret stealth aircraft of the wolrd-----and were running away to sell the pieces of metal.

Now someone tell me----how pathetic my nations millitary / security heirarchy is----.

Let me give you a first hand experience of pak millitary----I was in college in pindi in 1975 and was leading the NCC parade for the prime minsiter day parade---on the final rehersal day---during fly past---one the F 6 or 7 came down---the parade was in race course ground in pindi---the plane fell right where the turn to islamabad is going from rawalpindi-----10---15 miles away-----.

We heard about it----just out of curiosity---I went to that place----it was after 3 to 4 hours after the accident----the wreckage of the plane was strewed around in the field-----and the civilians were picking up what ever pices of aluminium etc they could find and hauling it away and there was no police or millitary contingent to have secured the place-----.

My millitary management is pathetically disgusting-----I have been talking about that on this board for years and years----only thing these generals can do is steal from the country----thieves----petty thieves that they are-----.

Now you people know ---why they can't stand upto the americans----because they are on their payroll.

I do agree that Military is so dependent upon US Aid that most of their shopping list is covered with this even Block 52 was also financed by USMAP. But partially we are all responsible, Military for spending lavishly. I mean look at the lifestyle of our Military top brass. Power corrupts, however, no body dares talking about military. Neither our politicians, strategic analysts nor our "Champion" media. Look at the situation of our country where incomes are shrinking we still allowed them 18% Increase which taxpayers like me will pay. At least they should keep this fact in mind that nation still feeds them out of their limited and diminishing resources. I do expect some resignations honestly.

 

[mirage 5000]

Sir,

My young friend----don't you understand by now----the F 16 would not have been able to en-force a lock on those planes-----do I need to explain----american equipment---american radar---american missiles-----american jammers---they could not have taken a shot at the plane----the americans already had the anti venom for that----.

The only thing the paf could have used were the chinese radars and chinese missiles-----. It is all a friggin lie----and the more they talk----the more they ensnare themselves----.

Don't we know that the americans would have the source codes for their own missiles to make them inactive-----.

Are you people so out of it----have you people so totally lost it-------. Think----think with your brains-----not with your feet.

OK my bad sir .what is concern for me they even never try to do some thing .there is many other AA missiles in paf inventory french chines brazilion and i read abut darter on mirages why not they even try? they sit like ducks . leave aside jets what abut HQ-2 crotal SAMs ?why not they even try it ? there is HQ-2 site near islamabad which 50km from kakul.if they fire and fail we can say they failed but they buried there heads in sand so what we have to call them?

 

[ramu]

OK my bad sir .what is concern for me they even never try to do some thing .there is many other AA missiles in paf inventory french chines brazilion and i read abut darter on mirages why not they even try? they sit like ducks . leave aside jets what abut HQ-2 crotal SAMs ?why not they even try it ? there is HQ-2 site near islamabad which 50km from kakul.if they fire and fail we can say they failed but they buried there heads in sand so what we have to call them?

If Pakistan took any aggressive step against the seals, I can guarantee you that the US would come hunting and the damage would lead to a situation Pakistan would never want. Americans are known for the punch they pack when it comes to the national interest. IF perseverance of the American forces is a yard stick, make no mistake, they have tons of fight left in them.

 

[MastanKhan]

Master KHAN

Maybe the Armed forces ARE NOT THE WORLD CLASS performers we all try to portray in here some times.

Maybe JUST MAYBE they are a typical Developing country Armed forces we often see in the ARAB WORLD.

I ALWAYS FEEL if a nations economy and Govt are not well run THEN ITS MILITARY cannot be any better.

THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS try to convince everyone WE in SOUTH ASIA can not compare to likes of Japan Germany Israel & UK in military and security matters.

Even likes of South Korea Taiwan and Brazil i would guess are superior in every format.

But of course i will get shot down for my thoughts and opinions

Hi,

Thank you very much for your thoughts----you are so very correct in making that statement----we are a poor third world country and we act like we the super studs----so what is wrong in being real---why do we have to live a lie----.

My post has been directed towards those who bragged about taking the americans air force-----stating that they were not the iraqi air force---and bragging about the 10 times that paf has a lock on an american fighter plane by the pak pilot during an excercize in the last few years----and some of these specially one of them is a retired millitary major I believe----. So where is you r GAME buddies----.

It is american equipment we are flying----I was surprised that no one had caught onto it that the response to the strike would have no sting to it----. Alongwith the neutralized american radar and american missiless---the french versions may also had been neutralized as well----the only chance was chinse if any-----.

Just take a look at the time span----40 minute at the location----45 minute to fly out of p[akistani air space----.

The commander in chief say---I ordered the retaliation----the air chief says my radars were shut down----the ISI chief says----NOTHING-----because he doesnot know nothing----. He is the only man I feel bad about-----he seems like a honest and trustworthy man----with no background in espionage---he was way out of league as director of isi-----Kiyani made a bad choice of forcing him in that position----he has fed a lamb to the lions----Kiyani would have Pasha's hide to save his own.

To Kiyani diplomat general status---Pashas background is an infantryman---if I am not wrong----he is the perfect scapegoat for the misdeeds of Kiyani.

 

[MastanKhan]

If Pakistan took any aggressive step against the seals, I can guarantee you that the US would come hunting and the damage would lead to a situation Pakistan would never want. Americans are known for the punch they pack when it comes to the national interest. IF perseverance of the American forces is a yard stick, make no mistake, they have tons of fight left in them.

Hi,

There was no reason to take any action against the seals---they did a job that was supposedly to be done by us---they made a surgical strike and left peacefully without any collateral damage---so I am grateful for that.

Plus as usual---they left a gift of untold wealth for us----a stealth helicopter---like the last time----we got the cruise missile tomahawk----this time we got stealth----indeed Allah give in starnge ways-----The good Lord shows mercy and benevolence in so many different ways.

 

[Luftwaffe]

mirage5000, So what are you suggesting scrambling from Sargodha or Kamra.

I am not here to comment on what has gone wrong and what has gone right and what should it be like lets Govt and Army/AirForce clear up things if they can.

The only thing I would want to talk about is the lost decade, and it was not just for the Air Force but for Army as well. I cannot blame whole of my AirForce and Army we've lost many honorable Men I do believe for the past 5/6 yrs we've new men in Armed Forces who've tried their best to change the structure but the hierarchy has still to be cleaned up of incompetent people. I am still looking for the answer as to what PAF obtained for the past 20/22 Years except for hand full of F-16.

Zia sold Pakistan for 3 squadron of F-16s and so did Musharraf although I would rate him better as to we've had better outcome with China in Musharraf's era, looking back I can remember how Turkey provided US with the logistics supports Air Base ofr some 10 Billion Dollars had Musharraf had a better deal on WOT in terms of military equipment and advanced funds we would have worked out things efficiently. Why is It that we cannot ask for more Pre to the Ops and War, I would ask Musharraf this question as to why he did not demand Huge Pak Debt written off by US and its allies, Why did he not ask for advance funds for WOT, Why did he not ask for More capable weapons and more in number. Please Do understand this is no time to praise Generals but it is time to ask those who started this WOT as why they didn't see the larger picture and self Interests before US interests.

Why is the Govt not conveying message to US that US must operate inside Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Yemen and U.A.E as the main stations of AQ/Taliban before finger pointing at Pakistan.

It is easy to blame Pakistan AF/Army but is there anyone out there to question from the people who ruled pre-PPP as well. My opinion I do blame Musharraf Govt for the bad deals and absolutely no preparation for the long War On Terror.

Lets revisit the whole world was looking towards us for the cooperation, why PAF did not go for German Radars and French Rafale. We paid some 5 Billion Dollars for the F-16 we could have paid the same for Rafale. And allow me to enlighten you we have paid more then the actual price of Block 52 that is on the record, did someone Ask PAF Chief(s) what sort of deal is it.

Lets not waste time without thinking about Abbottabad Operation, Lets discuss PAF the equipment and Lost decadeS and the Money where it went in for the past 22 Years, we have been feed on those F-7 and 2.7 old decades Mirages. Advise for PAF is don't come out on every platform calling on to people that our Airspace is secure we've made it impenetrable well because its isn't the truth!

 

[ramu]

Hi,

There was no reason to take any action against the seals---they did a job that was supposedly to be done by us---they made a surgical strike and left peacefully without any collateral damage---so I am grateful for that.

Plus as usual---they left a gift of untold wealth for us----a stealth helicopter---like the last time----we got the cruise missile tomahawk----this time we got stealth----indeed Allah give in starnge ways-----The good Lord shows mercy and benevolence in so many different ways.

Indeed... The issue: Does Pakistan have enough presence of mind at this hour of unease to work out the technology? Will Pakistan give the left over to China to make sense out of it or will Pakistan go ahead with its own analysis ?

 

[mirage 5000]

mirage5000, So what are you suggesting scrambling from Sargodha or Kamra.

I would like to ask you look were is kakul . center of all air bases of north is that site .

 

[ANG]

Hi, kindly please watch this report. I also posted this in the "Stealth Choppers Used in Osama OP" thread.

At the end it is mentioned that some type of EM pulse might have been used to temporarily jam electricity and cell phone service in Abbottabad. Or not to be too harsh, we all know how easy it is to "buy" officials there, someone might have just turned these services off for a price.

Lastly, the PA seems nowhere at first, and kids are seen running away with helicopter wreckage. So much for controling the situation or cordoning off the area as Mr. MK mentioned. The PA and PAF simply failed in this scenario.

Also given what a bunch of sellouts the Pakistani government and high command are, I would not doubt that they return the wrekage. The US has already asked for it back at the highest level, according to Fox News.

But one also has to keep in mind, the PA and PAF simply cannot handle the technology the US has.

SEALs Used Secret Stealth Helicopter

 

[deckingraj]

Hi,

There was no reason to take any action against the seals---they did a job that was supposedly to be done by us---they made a surgical strike and left peacefully without any collateral damage---so I am grateful for that.

Plus as usual---they left a gift of untold wealth for us----a stealth helicopter---like the last time----we got the cruise missile tomahawk----this time we got stealth----indeed Allah give in starnge ways-----The good Lord shows mercy and benevolence in so many different ways.

BUT sir i believe they destroyed it....Do you think there is still enough left to learn??

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

In my older years---I am getting forgetfull----. Guess what----it was right in front of my face and I didn't see it----what if the radars facing the afg border are american in manufacture----if so----then doesn't make any difference if they were on or not----americans would have the codes to walk through without being seen----please correct me if I am wrong----.

With so much of the elctronic stuff the americans would have in the air directed towards that site----it would have been impossible for an american radar to remain operative. Now if the equipment was of chinese origin or otherwise----it is a different story.

 

[mirage 5000]

Hi, kindly please watch this report. I also posted this in the "Stealth Choppers Used in Osama OP" thread.

At the end it is mentioned that some type of EM pulse might have been used to temporarily jam electricity and cell phone service in Abbottabad. Or not to be too harsh, we all know how easy it is to "buy" officials there, someone might have just turned these services off for a price.

Lastly, the PA seems nowhere at first, and kids are seen running away with helicopter wreckage. So much for controling the situation or cordoning off the area as Mr. MK mentioned. The PA and PAF simply failed in this scenario.

Also given what a bunch of sellouts the Pakistani government and high command are, I would not doubt that they return the wrekage. The US has already asked for it back at the highest level, according to Fox News.

But one also has to keep in mind, the PA and PAF simply cannot handle the technology the US has.

SEALs Used Secret Stealth Helicopter

stealth chopper are more slow and more visible then F-117 night hawk sir you forget that there was f-117 shot down by a sam .only difference between pakistan and Yugoslavia is BALLS .

 

[MastanKhan]

BUT sir i believe they destroyed it....Do you think there is still enough left to learn??

Hi,

Yessir---they did most of it----but still the tail remains---the paint is there to be decipehered----and the angles of design on the left over parts would tell the rest of the story----once you have the angles of adjoining plates on the frame---rest is upto the computer to come up with the solution----then the paint on the aaircraft----let the labs handle that-----and then the design of the hub cap on the tail-----remaining of the rotor and rotr design and material-----there is a treasure troive of information left.

 

[ANG]

Hi, Pakistan is not in the business of building stealth aircraft, China is. However, Pakistan could try to figure out the materials used, and use that to coat LACMs, like the Babur and Ra'ad. However, building a helicopter is out of their technical expertise, so a stealth helicopter is not even on the cards.

The Chinese are bright though, and I am sure they could use the wreckage to see how to cut down the radar, IR, and noise signature of the rotor assemblies (main and tail).

 

[deckingraj]

Hi,

Yessir---they did most of it----but still the tail remains---the paint is there to be decipehered----and the angles of design on the left over parts would tell the rest of the story----once you have the angles of adjoining plates on the frame---rest is upto the computer to come up with the solution----then the paint on the aaircraft----let the labs handle that-----and then the design of the hub cap on the tail-----remaining of the rotor and rotr design and material-----there is a treasure troive of information left.

Nice....Thanks for the info...Indeed this is like blessing in disguise....I am sure if Chinese are looped in(which you guys would have) in a matter of few years we can see a stealth helicopter in South Asia