The solution to the israeli issue

[500]

I think you are starting to realize now the difference between Israel and Jews, Jews lived with Muslims under their rule for many centuries
The golden age of Jews was in Andalusia under the rule of Umayyad, As for Israel, It is an artificial entity Was created for specific targets

Arabs in Israel live far better than in their own countries.

Jews under Umayyad ruled lived not bad, but then fanatic Almoravides arrved and expelled them.

 

[Tshering22]

They also claimed that the Apartheid regime of South Africa was there to stay, or maybe the French Algeria, not to mention the USSR.

Nothing's permanent under the Sun, bro. And that includes the Muslim world as much as any other country. Empires have come and gone and still people fight or them... because they want to live in them as long as it lasts. Thousands of empires have come and gone on the same lands for different years...for example, Iran was not a Muslim country 1,500 years ago but today it is. Same way nothing can be said about tomorrow.

As for those hoping Israel to vanish off the map, predicted such things even 50 years ago and till now are talking the same. It will stay as long as it has to. Simple as that.

 

[hellofriends]

are yaar thread read karne mein 10 min waste ho gaya....

 

[muse]

Solution to the Israel problem? Full integration within all Muslim countries or Islamia, normal diplomatic relations, full commercial relations, full protection of life and property, freedom of movement, exercise of confession without incumberance within Islamia, freedom to live without any incumberance through out Islamia.

Anyway, you look at this, it is a completely stupid situation - Israeli or Jewry are not from space, they are as much orient as you or anybody else, they have history and contribution and this crazy situation must be brought to an end. Because everybody is related and effected in pretty much the same way.

 

[CardSharp]

Solution to the Israel problem? Full integration within all Muslim countries or Islamia, normal diplomatic relations, full commercial relations, full protection of life and property, freedom of movement, exercise of confession without incumberance within Islamia, freedom to live without any incumberance through out Islamia.

Anyway, you look at this, it is a completely stupid situation - Israeli or Jewry are not from space, they are as much orient as you or anybody else, they have history and contribution and this crazy situation must be brought to an end. Because everybody is related and effected in pretty much the same way.

That is hardly reasonable Muse. You cannot expect a people to give up it's core culture and religion. It is an unfortunate situation (one of many presented by religion) but it is something to be worked out carefully.

And I think Modern Israelis contain a large percentage of Eastern European Jews that are relatively recent immigrants.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Solution to the Israel problem? Full integration within all Muslim countries or Islamia, normal diplomatic relations, full commercial relations, full protection of life and property, freedom of movement, exercise of confession without incumberance within Islamia, freedom to live without any incumberance through out Islamia.

Anyway, you look at this, it is a completely stupid situation - Israeli or Jewry are not from space, they are as much orient as you or anybody else, they have history and contribution and this crazy situation must be brought to an end. Because everybody is related and effected in pretty much the same way.

well the jews in israel take their religion and culture very seriously .....unlike the jewish population in the states or elsewhere....israel is one place (probably the only place ) where you can find propagation of radical jewish beliefs and jewish supremacy.....living under Islamic rule is utterly unacceptable to them......and also because most of the "settled " jews have ethnic links with Europe they would reject any integration with Islamic culture and tradition.....imho...the ony solution viable was obama's solution....a jewish state with rights for arab citizens and a palestinian one beside it.....

 

[muse]

That is hardly reasonable Muse. You cannot expect a people to give up it's core culture and religion

I think you may have misunderstood - my post is not about giving up Israel or Jewish culture(s) -- It's about the integration of Israel within Islamia as not just a normal country, but as one that is a natural in the region and in the culture(s) of the region.

The integration I am refering to not just cold and dead "peace treaties" but the creation of a normalcy in which civilizational conflict is not even a option.

 

[tomp]

New Israel-Second Edition

A Human enough to have a bit of mind, When looking at a map of the Muslim world, To realize that the so-called Israel, Is an artificial entity, Was created to achieve certain goals:
[........]
written by: M. A. Nishan
July 26, 2010

A well written piece, M A Nishan.

However, i find some flaws in it that i'd like you to comment on.

First off, you blame Israel and the west for the problems of Muslims.
I think that's the biggest flaw in your thinking. Aside from taking a historic approach to a solution instead of a future-oriented one.

Ordinary muslims have endured the rule of corrupt and arrogant rulers for a long time. Dissent is not tolerated, freedom of speech against the rulers is not tolerated. And the rulers and their troops enrich themselves.

If muslim rulers were actually capable of cooperating with eachother, there should be no blocks on the road to 'good' borders in the muslim lands.

Instead, muslim rulers are so territorial that
a) they uphold what you call bad borders.
b) they won't tolerate a small strip of land being given to a displaced and tortured, nearly exterminated, people (the jews, israeli's).

in this climate of aggression coming from muslim leaderships, "the west" can do nothing else than support the jews that they installed on that beachhead in muslim land. We'll use your own territoriality against you, to keep your minds distracted from finding real paths to your wishes (which could hurt the west in the wallet).

despite the Israeli's being on the defensive on the court of international opinion, all they have to do is show a decade of patience with their enemies, and keep talks going. It can go on like that for centuries or more, until the muslims simply accept the fact that the israeli's really wanna stay on exactly that strip of land. And they'll defend themselves, with dirty tricks if they have to. They've made that clear, haven't they?

the west also sees chances for economic supremacy in the (covertly) violent attitude of muslim countries. and while i don't support economic supremacy of any region on earth over others, it's a fact of life that it's an extra tool by which to keep muslims even more distracted and on the defensive.

put in simple terms, muslims: you're wasting your (violent) energy against an enemy that doesn't even have to do military drafting or put it's economy in a total-war mode. In other words, all your violent attacks bounce off us like bullets bounce off good quality armor.

The solution is simple : peaceful resistance. Ghandi style, but adjusted for the digital age. Cameras and internet connections instead of guns and rockets. Petitions instead of threats. Patience instead of pain.

 

[tomp]

I'd like to add, that the dynamics of terrorism are a bit different than bullets bouncing off armor.

Terror hurts. A lot.

It enrages us here in the west.

If you're wondering why western citizens support their governments military action in muslim lands, you need only to point to your own method of attack; terrorism.

So you in effect create a world war that is being fought out with low tech weapons on a very low frequency. A perpetual world war. I dare bet that the more hawkish leaders of the west and our industrial military complex thank the muslim terrorists every day before going to bed, for providing them an eternal source of attention and money.

Muslims create a vicious cycle for themselves, by choosing terrorism as the tool to handle the west with.

Luckily we have the internet so we can exchange battle tips.

 

[r4rehan]

In,sha,ALLAH the JESUS (P.B.U.H) will solve this problem..... We Believe... its not far away

<(_|_)| AKBAR

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

I'd like to add, that the dynamics of terrorism are a bit different than bullets bouncing off armor.

Terror hurts. A lot.

It enrages us here in the west.

If you're wondering why western citizens support their governments military action in muslim lands, you need only to point to your own method of attack; terrorism.

So you in effect create a world war that is being fought out with low tech weapons on a very low frequency. A perpetual world war. I dare bet that the more hawkish leaders of the west and our industrial military complex thank the muslim terrorists every day before going to bed, for providing them an eternal source of attention and money.

Muslims create a vicious cycle for themselves, by choosing terrorism as the tool to handle the west with.

Luckily we have the internet so we can exchange battle tips.

well to each his own.....if the west intends to exploit , maim and kill people in the more backward regions of the world most of which are incidentally muslim regions....you must not expect the opposing side to simply keep their heads down and move on.....they have neither the technological capability nor the firepower to defend themselves through conventional means ....hence terrorism seems to the common youth of the streets to be the only solution.......

regarding the bold part if the same organizations were to use their vast resources to socially and economically uplift the poorer sections of the world .....then realities might be a little different.....regards.....

 

[tomp]

well to each his own.....if the west intends to exploit , maim and kill people in the more backward regions of the world most of which are incidentally muslim regions....you must not expect the opposing side to simply keep their heads down and move on.....

honestly, i don't think the west _intends_ to exploit, maim and kill people in backward regions of the world. those are byproducts of war.

if rulers in developing countries would share profits of natural resources with their citizens, practice open accounting for such projects, then the world would be a different place alltogether for their inhabitants.

they have neither the technological capability nor the firepower to defend themselves through conventional means ....hence terrorism seems to the common youth of the streets to be the only solution.......

so it seems. i'm hoping i can convince some of them to practice political resistance against stronger foes instead of futile violent struggles.

regarding the bold part if the same organizations were to use their vast resources to socially and economically uplift the poorer sections of the world .....then realities might be a little different.....regards.....

you can pump as much money as you want into a country, but if it's ruled by selfish rulers who pocket said money for themselves, then the common folk still live in poverty and oppression.

 

[Nishan]

A well written piece, M A Nishan.

However, i find some flaws in it that i'd like you to comment on.

First off, you blame Israel and the west for the problems of Muslims.
I think that's the biggest flaw in your thinking. Aside from taking a historic approach to a solution instead of a future-oriented one.

Ordinary muslims have endured the rule of corrupt and arrogant rulers for a long time. Dissent is not tolerated, freedom of speech against the rulers is not tolerated. And the rulers and their troops enrich themselves.

If muslim rulers were actually capable of cooperating with eachother, there should be no blocks on the road to 'good' borders in the muslim lands.

Instead, muslim rulers are so territorial that
a) they uphold what you call bad borders.
b) they won't tolerate a small strip of land being given to a displaced and tortured, nearly exterminated, people (the jews, israeli's).

in this climate of aggression coming from muslim leaderships, "the west" can do nothing else than support the jews that they installed on that beachhead in muslim land. We'll use your own territoriality against you, to keep your minds distracted from finding real paths to your wishes (which could hurt the west in the wallet).

despite the Israeli's being on the defensive on the court of international opinion, all they have to do is show a decade of patience with their enemies, and keep talks going. It can go on like that for centuries or more, until the muslims simply accept the fact that the israeli's really wanna stay on exactly that strip of land. And they'll defend themselves, with dirty tricks if they have to. They've made that clear, haven't they?

the west also sees chances for economic supremacy in the (covertly) violent attitude of muslim countries. and while i don't support economic supremacy of any region on earth over others, it's a fact of life that it's an extra tool by which to keep muslims even more distracted and on the defensive.

put in simple terms, muslims: you're wasting your (violent) energy against an enemy that doesn't even have to do military drafting or put it's economy in a total-war mode. In other words, all your violent attacks bounce off us like bullets bounce off good quality armor.

The solution is simple : peaceful resistance. Ghandi style, but adjusted for the digital age. Cameras and internet connections instead of guns and rockets. Petitions instead of threats. Patience instead of pain.

First : about the muslim rulres,If you think I am defending the muslim rulers Then you wrong, muslim rulers bear the full responsibility for the failure to liberate Palestine from the Jews, If the muslim rulers were real leaders, Palestine was liberated form a long time And Israel wiped off the map form a long time.

Second:the Ghandi tyle . . Cameras aginst Merkava . . .Internet aginst F-16 . . Are you convinced by this solution?

 

[tomp]

First : about the muslim rulres,If you think I am defending the muslim rulers Then you wrong, muslim rulers bear the full responsibility for the failure to liberate Palestine from the Jews, If the muslim rulers were real leaders, Palestine was liberated form a long time And Israel wiped off the map form a long time.

well, they did try to wipe Israel off the map during the 6 day war, but they failed. i believe that's because even back then, the balance of military power rested with the west and the israeli's.

the more you work toward wiping Israel off the map, the more Isreal's allies will forgive it it's stash of nukes and employ of dirty military tricks.

Second:the Ghandi tyle . . Cameras aginst Merkava . . .Internet aginst F-16 . . Are you convinced by this solution?

Yes, because if you deny the west and israel the reasons to attack and invade you in the first place, by practicing peaceful resistance exclusively, you get:
- no more, or way less, casualties
- a better economy of your own, including education centres for your young.
- much international goodwill
- travel permissions
Over time, you can with these assets, put more people on convincing your opponents through peaceful means to honor your wishes. People that don't have to worry about the lights and fridge working.

The current alternative, terrorism, has proven itself ineffective in getting your wishes heard, hasn't it? All you get is more invasions, more oppression from the west.

You don't need to fear or even hate the western/israeli F16 if it's just there to keep an eye on things, instead of dropping bombs..
By opting for Ghandi, you deny your western enemies the right to bomb you.

And i really believe that a few cameras + the internet + a video-jockey, WILL win against F16's. So long as you can control your own violent members from launching violent attacks. Use them as bodyguards for your more patient members.

 

[Nishan]

well, they did try to wipe Israel off the map during the 6 day war, but they failed. i believe that's because even back then, the balance of military power rested with the west and the israeli's.

the more you work toward wiping Israel off the map, the more Isreal's allies will forgive it it's stash of nukes and employ of dirty military tricks.



Yes, because if you deny the west and israel the reasons to attack and invade you in the first place, by practicing peaceful resistance exclusively, you get:
- no more, or way less, casualties
- a better economy of your own, including education centres for your young.
- much international goodwill
- travel permissions
Over time, you can with these assets, put more people on convincing your opponents through peaceful means to honor your wishes. People that don't have to worry about the lights and fridge working.

The current alternative, terrorism, has proven itself ineffective in getting your wishes heard, hasn't it? All you get is more invasions, more oppression from the west.

You don't need to fear or even hate the western/israeli F16 if it's just there to keep an eye on things, instead of dropping bombs..
By opting for Ghandi, you deny your western enemies the right to bomb you.

And i really believe that a few cameras + the internet + a video-jockey, WILL win against F16's. So long as you can control your own violent members from launching violent attacks. Use them as bodyguards for your more patient members.

What you mentioned, that points are new and a leading, I will return to discuss it with you soon