The rise and rise of Bangladesh

[HariPrasad]

Very good luck to Bangladesh.

 

[Mage]

কুশিক্ষিত

My definition of illiterate includes them. Actually it includes only them...not those without a formal education.

There is no rising intolerance in India but hype media war which is a political stunt by Congress which they have every right to do as a opposition party.

No increase in beef lynching and crimes like that? If you consider these as a crime to begin with?

 

[Nilgiri]

How is pure democracy a basic need?
In a country where general people are illiterate, arrogant and corrupt and unable to think properly, and given the chance would vote for known criminals(no matter from which party), pure democracy cannot and mustn't exist in a country like that.

Democracy can flourish when the country is better of than it is now. When Hasina will be too old to rule and Khaleda will be gone.

Little bro, can you tell me if you want to build a castle....which would you prefer?

A) To build it piece by piece from scratch on empty land

B) Take an existing massive rock-face and chisel away at it

@Joe Shearer @hellfire

 

[Nilgiri]

Where is dynasty in India apart from the Gandhi family?

Lot of regional examples. Going from South (which I know most about) northwards:

My State (TN) has one well entrenched (despicable DMK family) now. There was another one spawning on the other major party (MGR clan)...but now seems to have been somewhat curtailed (but could re-form again who knows).

Kerala has a very different setup with internal fiefdom and powerstruggles among its communists and "others"....that presents a quite different complicated dicussion (largely because of Kerala's unique demographic make up), so I wont go there. So optically no real dynasty there...but in reality same kind of overall psyche running the narrative if you ask me.

Karnataka current CM is son of a former PM of India (and political heavyweight in the state)...so there is one really budding there too.

Andhra Pradesh has TDP family (including current CM).

Maharashtra...well you are better off knowing as little about the Vile Thackeray clan as possible.

Orissa, Patnaik family is now quite established one I feel.

....and as you go further north my knowledge becomes more fuzzy....I know UP has a bunch like the Yadav clan no. 1 and Bihar has Yadav clan no. 2 and all kind of other budding dynasties following the main bridal trains there.. Then the Patiala dynasty in Punjab...and the dynasties of Kashmir etc etc.

Maybe @Joe Shearer , @hellfire can fill in any more details...esp up there above vindhya mts.

Overall of course "Gandhi" family has been the one of greatest relevance to modern day India (Esp federally)...and has coloured most of my impression on the congress party (especially for my lifetime anyway).

Their non-dynasty people on other hand are a mixed bag and some have been quite excellent.

For example before my state went to the DMK dogs et al....there was a great congress chieftain (Kamaraj) running TN quite excellently and I (and many others) admire him greatly...and yearn for such a caliber of leader again sometime. It was largely because of him my extended family now have decent economic means....because big families back then etc and he introduced free school education (and free school meal) at a very critical time. The story goes while he was waiting at level crossing, he got out of his car and saw there's a kid in middle of day just passing by....and he asked the kid why arent you in school....and the kid says "sir if I go to school it will be a day I cannot eat and I will be hungry because my parents have nothing"....and it struck Mr. Kamaraj very deeply to hear that....and he introduced both free schooling and free school meal program across the state, here he is:

A very honest chap, he kept to Gandhian philosophy, kept very few possessions, lived very simply, shunned any VIP treatment and gave absolutely no patronage to family members (even if poor)....yet such a guy was given a disgrace of defeat by wicked DMK thanks to false promise shenanigans...and our quite gullible Tamil folk (who I will never ever forgive for that to my last breath on this Earth).

Really sometimes I do think what would India be like today if more such non-dynast + merit leaders were able to come up across the board everywhere at crucial times (if eternity is accepted to be a dream) for every state....regardless of their larger party affiliations. It is for this reason I despise dynasty concept...because more times than not, they keep away such people from having any real chance.

@randomradio @anant_s @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @RealNapster @Hell hound @django @Tps43 @M. Sarmad @Game.Invade @Desert Fox @waz @Jungibaaz @Chak Bamu @Imran Khan

It's vibrant democracy, I would grab with two hands 10-15 years of slow growth for my country in exchange of strong democracy like India. Thank whichever God you worship for the democracy you guys have.

Well maybe vibrant compared to region and maybe even continent....but much much more scope for improvement. Dynasty complex is just a few jigsaw parts of the swampy puzzle afflicting the growth of genuine democracy in India. But its a very long conversation to have...

 

[GeraltofRivia]

Any more comments/analysis from me (because I'm tired of repeating all this again)...needs you to do your due diligence and give me some actual numbers of what BD exports in pharmaceuticals are compared to India (so we have some actual reference of this "intense competition")...i.e lets see the levels if they have changed drastically from the last time we looked at them (and BD was exporting in a year what India does in a cpl days).

Actually you can compare such BD level today to the early ramp when it was nascent industry in India in the late-80s and 90s if you want to...to make things little more nicer for you.

Its like me giving you 2 -rook odds in Chess game (given you choose this game instead of bigger one that I would need to bring more effort to)....so lets go.

@GeraltofRivia @Aung Zaya @Joe Shearer @hellfire @Game.Invade @Viet @Tanveer666 @Skull and Bones

The low FDI in Bangladesh appears to be an interesting observation. It is pretty low for a country that has done so well in garments export. The countries that at this stage of development should attract a healthy 4-5% FDI as percentage of GDP (see Vietnam or Myanmar as a comparison). I am not sure whether I should congratulate Bangladesh for being able to been punch above its weight or be worried that investors don’t seem to play long game here.

Lot of regional examples. Going from South (which I know most about) northwards:

My State (TN) has one well entrenched (despicable DMK family) now. There was another one spawning on the other major party (MGR clan)...but now seems to have been somewhat curtailed (but could re-form again who knows).

Kerala has a very different setup with internal fiefdom and powerstruggles among its communists and "others"....that presents a quite different complicated dicussion (largely because of Kerala's unique demographic make up), so I wont go there. So optically no real dynasty there...but in reality same kind of overall psyche running the narrative if you ask me.

Karnataka current CM is son of a former PM of India (and political heavyweight in the state)...so there is one really budding there too.

Andhra Pradesh has TDP family (including current CM).

Maharashtra...well you are better off knowing as little about the Vile Thackeray clan as possible.

Orissa, Patnaik family is now quite established one I feel.

....and as you go further north my knowledge becomes more fuzzy....I know UP has a bunch like the Yadav clan no. 1 and Bihar has Yadav clan no. 2 and all kind of other budding dynasties following the main bridal trains there.. Then the Patiala dynasty in Punjab...and the dynasties of Kashmir etc etc.

Maybe @Joe Shearer , @hellfire can fill in any more details...esp up there above vindhya mts.

Overall of course "Gandhi" family has been the one of greatest relevance to modern day India (Esp federally)...and has coloured most of my impression on the congress party (especially for my lifetime anyway).

Their non-dynasty people on other hand are a mixed bag and some have been quite excellent.

For example before my state went to the DMK dogs et al....there was a great congress chieftain (Kamaraj) running TN quite excellently and I (and many others) admire him greatly...and yearn for such a caliber of leader again sometime. It was largely because of him my extended family now have decent economic means....because big families back then etc and he introduced free school education (and free school meal) at a very critical time. The story goes while he was waiting at level crossing, he got out of his car and saw there's a kid in middle of day just passing by....and he asked the kid why arent you in school....and the kid says "sir if I go to school it will be a day I cannot eat and I will be hungry because my parents have nothing"....and it struck Mr. Kamaraj very deeply to hear that....and he introduced both free schooling and free school meal program across the state, here he is:

A very honest chap, he kept to Gandhian philosophy, kept very few possessions, lived very simply, shunned any VIP treatment and gave absolutely no patronage to family members (even if poor)....yet such a guy was given a disgrace of defeat by wicked DMK thanks to false promise shenanigans...and our quite gullible Tamil folk (who I will never ever forgive for that to my last breath on this Earth).

Really sometimes I do think what would India be like today if more such non-dynast + merit leaders were able to come up across the board everywhere at crucial times (if eternity is accepted to be a dream) for every state....regardless of their larger party affiliations. It is for this reason I despise dynasty concept...because more times than not, they keep away such people from having any real chance.

@randomradio @anant_s @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @RealNapster @Hell hound @django @Tps43 @M. Sarmad @Game.Invade @Desert Fox @waz @Jungibaaz @Chak Bamu @Imran Khan



Well maybe vibrant compared to region and maybe even continent....but much much more scope for improvement. Dynasty complex is just a few jigsaw parts of the swampy puzzle afflicting the growth of genuine democracy in India. But its a very long conversation to have...

Interesting read. Just kindly wondering do these political dynasties have anything to do with Princely states? Or are they newly emerged capitalist class?

 

[Nilgiri]

Interesting read. Just kindly wondering do these political dynasties have anything to do with Princely states? Or are they newly emerged capitalist class?

Its mixed bag of all of the above combined with emerging from media, literature, hubris, rallying and all kinds of "original" backgrounds. In the end dynasty is about gaining and maintaining power for nepotism sake....its very different to "neo-capitalism"/money (thats just part of the extra fickle goodies as you want on top).

As Frank Underwood says...“Money is the Mc-mansion in Sarasota that starts falling apart after 10 years. Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. I cannot respect someone who doesn’t see the difference.”

 

[Joe Shearer]

Lot of regional examples. Going from South (which I know most about) northwards:

My State (TN) has one well entrenched (despicable DMK family) now. There was another one spawning on the other major party (MGR clan)...but now seems to have been somewhat curtailed (but could re-form again who knows).

Kerala has a very different setup with internal fiefdom and powerstruggles among its communists and "others"....that presents a quite different complicated dicussion (largely because of Kerala's unique demographic make up), so I wont go there. So optically no real dynasty there...but in reality same kind of overall psyche running the narrative if you ask me.

Karnataka current CM is son of a former PM of India (and political heavyweight in the state)...so there is one really budding there too.

Andhra Pradesh has TDP family (including current CM).

Maharashtra...well you are better off knowing as little about the Vile Thackeray clan as possible.

Orissa, Patnaik family is now quite established one I feel.

....and as you go further north my knowledge becomes more fuzzy....I know UP has a bunch like the Yadav clan no. 1 and Bihar has Yadav clan no. 2 and all kind of other budding dynasties following the main bridal trains there.. Then the Patiala dynasty in Punjab...and the dynasties of Kashmir etc etc.

Maybe @Joe Shearer , @hellfire can fill in any more details...esp up there above vindhya mts.

Overall of course "Gandhi" family has been the one of greatest relevance to modern day India (Esp federally)...and has coloured most of my impression on the congress party (especially for my lifetime anyway).

Their non-dynasty people on other hand are a mixed bag and some have been quite excellent.

For example before my state went to the DMK dogs et al....there was a great congress chieftain (Kamaraj) running TN quite excellently and I (and many others) admire him greatly...and yearn for such a caliber of leader again sometime. It was largely because of him my extended family now have decent economic means....because big families back then etc and he introduced free school education (and free school meal) at a very critical time. The story goes while he was waiting at level crossing, he got out of his car and saw there's a kid in middle of day just passing by....and he asked the kid why arent you in school....and the kid says "sir if I go to school it will be a day I cannot eat and I will be hungry because my parents have nothing"....and it struck Mr. Kamaraj very deeply to hear that....and he introduced both free schooling and free school meal program across the state, here he is:

A very honest chap, he kept to Gandhian philosophy, kept very few possessions, lived very simply, shunned any VIP treatment and gave absolutely no patronage to family members (even if poor)....yet such a guy was given a disgrace of defeat by wicked DMK thanks to false promise shenanigans...and our quite gullible Tamil folk (who I will never ever forgive for that to my last breath on this Earth).

Really sometimes I do think what would India be like today if more such non-dynast + merit leaders were able to come up across the board everywhere at crucial times (if eternity is accepted to be a dream) for every state....regardless of their larger party affiliations. It is for this reason I despise dynasty concept...because more times than not, they keep away such people from having any real chance.

@randomradio @anant_s @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @RealNapster @Hell hound @django @Tps43 @M. Sarmad @Game.Invade @Desert Fox @waz @Jungibaaz @Chak Bamu @Imran Khan



Well maybe vibrant compared to region and maybe even continent....but much much more scope for improvement. Dynasty complex is just a few jigsaw parts of the swampy puzzle afflicting the growth of genuine democracy in India. But its a very long conversation to have...

In Telangana, we have KCR, an arsehole of the first order who just got re-elected in a sweeping victory, and his son, KTR, his daughter, Kavitha and nephew, Harish Rao; on the other side, we have two brothers succeeding their father in charge of the MIM, Asaduddin and Akbaruddin Owaisi.

No shortages of dynasts here, and we can export to other, less-endowed states if need be.

 

[bluesky]

Thats terrible. Are you sure? sounds too high. What was taka exchange rate back then to USD? There could have been some big inflation back then.

I have read one account a long time ago about this salt price manipulation by Hasnat, a direct cousin of Hasina. Chittagong region is famous for producing salt from the seawater. One merchant from Cox's Bazaar with humanity thought that the salt price is rising because it is not being properly transported from there to other parts of the country.

So, he came with a few Bazra (wide cargo sailing boat) full of salt to Barisal to meet Hasnat and sell it to him, a big BAL stupid, at a cheap price. Hasnat coaxed him at gunpoint to leave all the salt there free of cost and go back to his hometown. I have met one fellow, Mr. Monu, in Japan who was gun fired by Hasnat at the belly. He is now probably the MD of Akij Cigarette Company and the husband of famous actress Shuchonda.

Hasnat hoarded most of the salt and reaped a huge benefit out of it. He saw little salt to move out from the coastal belt to the north. This is how the BAL cronies have made money. Similar stories I can also tell about BNP cronies. This is why I believe in a fair election because this is how the wrongdoers will gradually leave the political stage.

 

[Desert Fox]

For example before my state went to the DMK dogs et al....there was a great congress chieftain (Kamaraj) running TN quite excellently and I (and many others) admire him greatly...and yearn for such a caliber of leader again sometime. It was largely because of him my extended family now have decent economic means....because big families back then etc and he introduced free school education (and free school meal) at a very critical time. The story goes while he was waiting at level crossing, he got out of his car and saw there's a kid in middle of day just passing by....and he asked the kid why arent you in school....and the kid says "sir if I go to school it will be a day I cannot eat and I will be hungry because my parents have nothing"....and it struck Mr. Kamaraj very deeply to hear that....and he introduced both free schooling and free school meal program across the state, here he is:

A very honest chap, he kept to Gandhian philosophy, kept very few possessions, lived very simply, shunned any VIP treatment and gave absolutely no patronage to family members (even if poor)....yet such a guy was given a disgrace of defeat by wicked DMK thanks to false promise shenanigans...and our quite gullible Tamil folk (who I will never ever forgive for that to my last breath on this Earth).

Really sometimes I do think what would India be like today if more such non-dynast + merit leaders were able to come up across the board everywhere at crucial times (if eternity is accepted to be a dream) for every state....regardless of their larger party affiliations. It is for this reason I despise dynasty concept...because more times than not, they keep away such people from having any real chance.

Thanks for the tag. And I never heard of this gentleman before, thanks for the enlightening post. Unfortunately good men are taken for granted, especially when they themselves do not obtain positions of power/influence for their sake but for the betterment of those under their authority, and thus when forced to choose between keeping their hold over power and the welfare of their constituents they will always choose the latter.

If a people reject such great men they these people deserve their fate.

 

[Bilal9]

@Mage trust me, illiterates are not the real problem, but so called literates ( কুশিক্ষিত) are. Most of illiterate peoples work hard for food, and politics play very minor role in their life. Also they easily can be controlled by political or religious leaders.
The problem is so called educated folks because they are not properly educated.

I agree that pseudo-educated are the hypocrites and real problem.

 

[Mage]

Little bro, can you tell me if you want to build a castle....which would you prefer?

A) To build it piece by piece from scratch on empty land

B) Take an existing massive rock-face and chisel away at it

@Joe Shearer @hellfire

If there is already an existing structure or framework which can be used then why not build upon it?

BD officially is a democracy. Elections happen every five years. So the basic framework is already there. You will only have to make sure that the elections are fair and the institute's like supreme court and the army are independent and not parrial to any party. With some change it can be done when the time is right.

 

[Nilgiri]

In Telangana, we have KCR, an arsehole of the first order who just got re-elected in a sweeping victory, and his son, KTR, his daughter, Kavitha and nephew, Harish Rao; on the other side, we have two brothers succeeding their father in charge of the MIM, Asaduddin and Akbaruddin Owaisi.

No shortages of dynasts here, and we can export to other, less-endowed states if need be.

Yes I sort of deliberately left KCR and telengana out.....because you have much better vantage point on that one than I could...and I knew you would want to fill in for that one hehe.

Thanks for the tag. And I never heard of this gentleman before, thanks for the enlightening post. Unfortunately good men are taken for granted, especially when they themselves do not obtain positions of power/influence for their sake but for the betterment of those under their authority, and thus when forced to choose between keeping their hold over power and the welfare of their constituents they will always choose the latter.

If a people reject such great men they these people deserve their fate.

Yup we ultimately get the leaders we broadly deserve....there is some variance above and below of course.

If there is already an existing structure or framework which can be used then why not build upon it?

BD officially is a democracy. Elections happen every five years. So the basic framework is already there. You will only have to make sure that the elections are fair and the institute's like supreme court and the army are independent and not parrial to any party. With some change it can be done when the time is right.

So that is a pick for B then?

 

[Sam.]

So that is a pick for B then?

That was a rhetorical question , you damn cheater ? :/

 

[Bilal9]

Bhai @Horus, Bhai @Dubious or other mods - can you kindly do us all a favor and delete the few off-topic non-thread related comments please.

Like other threads in this section - this one is being hijacked too.

 

[Nilgiri]

Now I remember exactly why you are one of the few I truly despise here Billu.

Enjoy failing again.