The Reign of Non-History

[scorpionx]

Wo wo wo wo. Hold yourself. How come Dwarka has no connection to our national identity? De facto India is a Hindu country and it is this Hindu identity which molded us as a nation, otherwise there is nothing to hold us together. So Dwarka is important to its historic identity. Comparing Dwarka with Tipu's silly sword is insane.

Dwarka has its own importance in our culture. I was saying about the artifacts,spread on the sea bed which perhaps have no particular national identity; As Dwarka was a prominent sea port since ancient times.

 

[INDIC]

Could it be that vedic, at least rigvedic civilization be much older than IVC? Also similarity between avestan and vedic literature may point to a divergence at some point in time from a common parent civilization

True but that is still circumstantial argument, there is little evidence at the Harappan sites of a clear connection with the people of the Rig veda. The Sarasvati's drying up dates will always be contentious, not everyone will agree on it. This is a bit of a grey zone where people will go with what they are inclined to because there is no clear evidence either way. This part remains a great mystery. The Rig veda itself makes no mention of these places, so we are left with pretty much nothing to go on. Quite possible you may be right about the connection but with no clear evidence, we will forever remain in the realm of speculation.

@Bang Galore @Butchcassidy The Rigveda mentions of pura/forts numerous times in many battles, when the Rigvedic Indians could built Forts, does that look a nomadic life. Only planned cities/pura have forts to save themselves from external threat. Moreover, raising Cattle for milk is not a nomadic way of life, we still have that in India mostly in rural India. So, Indra is described as Purandara, and its very bizarre to know the Rigvedic Indians didn't know about planned cities. Moreover, I was reading some of the writing of Jonathan Kenoyer where he claimed no new gene entered India during transformation of IVC to Vedic culture, instead it only saw the transformation in cultural practices and at some location the IVC continued until 1000BC.

 

[Audio]

raising Cattle for milk is not a nomadic way of life

I can't comment on anything else as i have no clue, but this above that is quoted;
could it not be that cattle moved to new pastures and people followed it or even initiated the move? Something like Mongolian nomads do to this day.

 

[INDIC]

I can't comment on anything else as i have no clue, but this above that is quoted;
could it not be that cattle moved to new pastures and people followed it or even initiated the move? Something like Mongolian nomads do to this day.

Nomads raised cattle, so do settled population in rural areas raise Cattle. Even in developed countries of Europe, America and Australia, cattle or sheep raising is rural areas is still one of the main contributor to the economy. So, if certain people raised cattle in the antiquity, it don't translates them being nomadic.

 

[Audio]

Nomads raised cattle, so do settled population in rural areas raise Cattle. Even in developed countries of Europe, America and Australia, cattle or sheep raising is rural areas is still one of the main contributor to the economy. So, if certain people raised cattle in the antiquity, it don't translates them being nomadic.

I wasn't saying that raising cattle means people will be 100% nomadic. It was more you hinting at the notion that raising cattle means 100% for sure they weren't nomadic.
To clarify, i am trying to point out that i do not agree with the notion you are presenting, because of the argumentation for it. The way i see it, it's possible both ways for people in ancient times, they could have been settlers (but would have to cultivate plants for animal feed at certaing times of the year) or they could have followed the herds.

 

[Narashima]

I wasn't saying that raising cattle means people will be 100% nomadic. It was more you hinting at the notion that raising cattle means 100% for sure they weren't nomadic.
To clarify, i am trying to point out that i do not agree with the notion you are presenting, because of the argumentation for it. The way i see it, it's possible both ways for people in ancient times, they could have been settlers (but would have to cultivate plants for animal feed at certaing times of the year) or they could have followed the herds.

india had caste system in past and one of the caste's profession was to raise cattles.

 

[INDIC]

I wasn't saying that raising cattle means people will be 100% nomadic. It was more you hinting at the notion that raising cattle means 100% for sure they weren't nomadic.
To clarify, i am trying to point out that i do not agree with the notion you are presenting, because of the argumentation for it. The way i see it, it's possible both ways for people in ancient times, they could have been settlers (but would have to cultivate plants for animal feed at certaing times of the year) or they could have followed the herds.

The Rigveda mentions about people raising Cattle, and the Western historians of that time translated into a nomadic form of life of some invaders coming in 1500BC. Because there are two ways of writing history, first you assume something and try to find out the proof and second you find something and try to decipher a history. The former was the case with most of the colonial historians/Indologists of Europe because they already assumed Europeans belong to some Hypothetical Aryan race who invaded India in 1500BC and founded the Vedic culture.

 

[Audio]

The Rigveda mentions about people raising Cattle, and the Western historians of that time translated into a nomadic form of life of some invaders coming in 1500BC. Because there are two ways of writing history, first you assume something and try to find out the proof and second you find something and try to decipher a history. The former was the case with most of the colonial historians/Indologists of Europe because they already assumed Europeans belong to some Hypothetical Aryan race who invaded India in 1500BC and founded the Vedic culture.

lmao......

Dude......i am not talking about what some victorian/colonial archeologists thought or who gets to claim the name Aryan.


I am saying that you said, raising cattle means people weren't nomadic. I disagree with that, basis of my argument are Mongol nomads. Who raise cattle, but move periodically when pastures get eaten.

 

[Indrani]

I wasn't saying that raising cattle means people will be 100% nomadic. It was more you hinting at the notion that raising cattle means 100% for sure they weren't nomadic.
To clarify, i am trying to point out that i do not agree with the notion you are presenting, because of the argumentation for it. The way i see it, it's possible both ways for people in ancient times, they could have been settlers (but would have to cultivate plants for animal feed at certaing times of the year) or they could have followed the herds.

India is a subtropical country. There is vegetation all year round. There is no making of hay while the sun shines in India because the sun always shines here.

 

[INDIC]

Who raise cattle, but move periodically when pastures get eaten.

The Indo-Gangetic plain is fertile where the Vedas were first compose, so for raising cattle there is no need of moving as there is plenty of grass, bushes and feed obtained after crop harvest to raise the cattle. Even Lord Krishna in Mahabharata is a cattle raiser in his childhood coming from a settled village called Gokul.

@Bang Galore can you suggest me some books about the history of early Vedic period(which is free from Aryan invasion theory).

 

[Audio]

The Indo-Gangetic plain is fertile where the Vedas were first compose, so for raising cattle there is no need of moving as there is plenty of grass, bushes and feed obtained after crop harvest to raise the cattle. Even Lord Krishna in Mahabharata is a cattle raiser in his childhood coming from a settled village called Gokul.

Thank you for this recycled wisdom.
I've read it one day earlier, just a post above yours. No doubt you've read it too.

 

[SrNair]

The Marxist historians have whitewashed even worst Muslim crimes up North. They have literally made heroes of all butchers of Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains. Perhaps according to them Hindus are subhuman beings who do not have a right over their history and do not deserve any justice.



They have named an Indian Navy Ship Tipu Sultan. They are going to name a new university in Karnataka after him.

Tipu sultan majority of atrocities were in kerala .Perhaps Kanandigas dont care about it .That is why they planning to give his name to their university

 

[Indrani]

Tipu sultan majority of atrocities were in kerala .Perhaps Kanandigas dont care about it .That is why they planning to give his name to their university

It is not Kannadigas who are doing that, it is Congress, your favorite party, which is doing that.

 

[SrNair]

It is not Kannadigas who are doing that, it is Congress, your favorite party, which is doing that.

Sorry .I voted for BJP in last election .I have lose some of my RSS disciplines but still I am a good supporter of BJP
You should visit a thread History of Malabar in this PDF .I know Tipu contribution to this nation when I was in school ,his heroism written by sickularists ,But fortunately I was an active RSS member during that time and they gave us a good picture of his bigotary and cheating .I wrote some it in by exam paper and got a lot of scolding from parents and School authorities.

 

[Indrani]

Sorry .I voted for BJP in last election .I have lose some of my RSS disciplines but still I am a good supporter of BJP
You should visit a thread History of Malabar in this PDF .I know Tipu contribution to this nation when I was in school ,his heroism written by sickularists ,But fortunately I was an active RSS member during that time and they gave us a good picture of his bigotary and cheating .I wrote some it in by exam paper and got a lot of scolding from parents and School authorities.

I was pulling your leg. I know you voted for BJP even when you are a Sikularist.