The real solution to the Afghanistan problem

[R Wing]

This has nothing to do with Indians, just stop. This sentiment has always existed in Afghanistan ever since the beginning. Stop crying Indian everywhere. It is possible they are providing funds but that's because Afghans are ever willing to carry out their historic prophecy of destroying Pakistan, which is their own homemade fantasy.

Don't pin everything on India and then bury your head in the sand. I don't know if this is genuine ignorance or just denial...

I think you acknowledged that some of what he's saying is likely true, which means you are both not disagreeing as strongly as you may think.

A hostile actor will take full advantage of any opportunity you give it to destabilize you. Why shouldn't India? The RAW footprint in Afghanistan was pretty impressive. There is no doubt that they would be very happy to fund and provide other types of support to TTP-type elements based in Afg looking to conduct attacks in Pakistan.

But, as you pointed out, there is much more at play than that. The Afg Talibs don't truly respect the border. They do have fantasies of some sort of 'Greater Afghanistan,' and they do feel like TTP are their ideological brothers. For both groups, the previous Afghan government and all of Pakistan (especially the Army) are Western puppets. So, if you zoom out a little, it would seem like they are fighting the same larger war. Thus there is strong sympathy for the TTP in the younger gen of the Afghan Taliban.

Finally, anti-Pakistan sentiment is very skillfully spread in Afghanistan, and it's not just India that does it.

Pakistan itself should start taking strong steps itself. Our "strategists" seem to understand realism and deterrence domestically when fighting for the relative power of their institution, but forget it when it comes to external moves.

 

[TheSolution]

I think you acknowledged that some of what he's saying is likely true, which means you are both not disagreeing as strongly as you may think.

A hostile actor will take full advantage of any opportunity you give it to destabilize you. Why shouldn't India? The RAW footprint in Afghanistan was pretty impressive. There is no doubt that they would be very happy to fund and provide other types of support to TTP-type elements based in Afg looking to conduct attacks in Pakistan.

But, as you pointed out, there is much more at play than that. The Afg Talibs don't truly respect the border. They do have fantasies of some sort of 'Greater Afghanistan,' and they do feel like TTP are their ideological brothers. For both groups, the previous Afghan government and all of Pakistan (especially the Army) are Western puppets. So, if you zoom out a little, it would seem like they are fighting the same larger war. Thus there is strong sympathy for the TTP in the younger gen of the Afghan Taliban.

Finally, anti-Pakistan sentiment is very skillfully spread in Afghanistan, and it's not just India that does it.

Pakistan itself should start taking strong steps itself. Our "strategists" seem to understand realism and deterrence domestically when fighting for the relative power of their institution, but forget it when it comes to external moves.

Indeed my friend, no enemy will miss a chance to strike you, but the point is that the core issue exists from Afghans themselves, it is their dream. India just provides support to what they already believe and want.

Loy Afghanistan is ingrained into the minds of Afghans, just because they don't say it publicly or formally, doesn't mean they don't want to pursue it. They will take Pakistan as a fool, develop themselves, then strike.

"It is possible they are providing funds but that's because Afghans are ever willing to carry out their historic prophecy of destroying Pakistan, which is their own homemade fantasy." - I acknowledged it here.

 

[R Wing]

This has nothing to do with Indians, just stop. This sentiment has always existed in Afghanistan ever since the beginning. Stop crying Indian everywhere. It is possible they are providing funds but that's because Afghans are ever willing to carry out their historic prophecy of destroying Pakistan, which is their own homemade fantasy.

Don't pin everything on India and then bury your head in the sand. I don't know if this is genuine ignorance or just denial...

I think you acknowledged that some of what he's saying is likely true, which means you are both not disagreeing as strongly as you may think.

A hostile actor will take full advantage of any opportunity you give it to destabilize you. Why shouldn't India? The RAW footprint in India was pretty impressive. There is no doubt that they would be very happy to fund and provide other types of support to TTP-type elements based in Afg looking to conduct attacks in Pakistan.

But, as you pointed out, there is much more at play than that. The Afg Talibs don't truly respect the border. They do have fantasies of some sort of 'Greater Afghanistan,' and they do feel like TTP are their ideological brothers. For both groups, the previous Afghan government and all of Pakistan (especially the Army) are Western puppets. So, if you zoom out a little, it would seem like they are fighting the same larger war. So there is strong sympathy for the TTP in the younger gen of the Afghan Taliban.

Finally, anti-Pakistan sentiment is very skillfully spread in Afghanistan, and it's not just India that does it.

Pakistan itself should start taking strong steps itself. Our "strategists" seem to understand realism and deterrence domestically when fighting for the relative power of their institution, but forget it when it comes to external moves.

Indeed my friend, no enemy will miss a chance to strike you, but the point is that the core issue exists from Afghans themselves, it is their dream. India just provides support to what they already believe.

Loy Afghanistan is ingrained into the minds of Afghans, just because they don't say it publicly or formally, doesn't mean they don't want to pursue it. They will take Pakistan as a fool, develop themselves, then strike.

"It is possible they are providing funds but that's because Afghans are ever willing to carry out their historic prophecy of destroying Pakistan, which is their own homemade fantasy." - I acknowledged it here.

Precisely... I meant to add on, not rebuke

 

[TheSolution]

Precisely... I meant to add on, not rebuke

Yep, have a read of my solution to this problem above and let me know what you think. I believe if we can pull this off it is our best bet at long term security. And Tajiks and Hazras have a long history of persecution and genocide by Afghans, the sentiment of separatism exists strongly in some.

It will be beneficial for powers like China too

Temporary friendly governments in Afghanistan are not solutions in my view. They are parasites that are waiting to grow to strike. We need permanent long-term solutions to truly secure our borders.

 

[hussain0216]

Afghanistan will be just fine 500 years from now

Let's face it, probably not


Stet mek afghan kill each other for 500 years

 

[One_Nation]

Afghanistan was never liberal besides some rich enclaves in Kabul, those photos you see of "liberal" Afghans are representative of 2% of their society at most.


It is Pakistan and America's fault that those idiots can't stop killing each other and act civilised. Look at how you treat your fellow Hazaras and Tajiks, the Afghans were already radicalized to begin with and foreigners took advantage of it.

It is surprising how people living next door to Afghanistan look at it through the western lens. Its the western world that bases its opinions from photos of women in skirts. Same thing for Iran.
They don't talk about why majority of rural Afghanistan has risen up to those modern Afghans.

I learned from a documentary that one of the Afghan kings before Pakistan was toppled because he was on a modernizing drive. He brought a car from UK and there was a rumour among locals that he is bringing a machine that makes soup of humans, something like that. Who needs to export backwardness there.

It is more of a case of Pakistan getting caught up in the mess of Afghanistan. Any country that doesn't have a hard border or geographical separation with Afghanistan will suffer the same fate.

 

[One_Nation]

Yep, have a read of my solution to this problem above and let me know what you think. I believe if we can pull this off it is our best bet at long term security. And Tajiks and Hazras have a long history of persecution and genocide by Afghans, the sentiment of separatism exists strongly in some.

It will be beneficial for powers like China too

Temporary friendly governments in Afghanistan are not solutions in my view. They are parasites that are waiting to grow to strike. We need permanent long-term solutions to truly secure our borders.

Hazaras are their main target due to Genghis Khan even though he invaded in 1200s. Even in Pakistan Hazaras are targetted for this reason.
Look up Hazara genocides in Afghanistan for some disturbing events.

 

[Zornix]

It is surprising how people living next door to Afghanistan look at it through the western lens. Its the western world that bases its opinions from photos of women in skirts.

They suddenly come to the conclusion that Afghanistan was once a liberal and progressive society from that one photo of some elite Kabul girls wearing skirts. This is ignoring that there are 100 other photos from 1970s Kabul being full of Burkas and a few skirt clads at most in the midst.

I was going to post a photo of a bunch of Burka clad girls in 1970s Kabul but I couldn't get a good one, but you get the gist.

 

[TheSolution]

Hazaras are their main target due to Genghis Khan even though he invaded in 1200s. Even in Pakistan Hazaras are targetted for this reason.
Look up Hazara genocides in Afghanistan for some disturbing events.

True but overall their targets are everyone who is not Afghan.

"Tajiks to Tajikistan, Uzbeks to Uzbekistan and Hazaras to the graveyard" is the motto.

They even claim that mentioning your ethnic identity is kuffar and you're out of the fold of Islam if you say anything other than Afghan. Something a Tajik told me.

It's literally genocide.

 

[Zornix]

True but overall their targets are everyone who is not Afghan.

"Tajiks to Tajikistan, Uzbeks to Uzbekistan and Hazaras to the graveyard" is the motto.

They even claim that mentioning your ethnic identity is kuffar and you're out of the fold of Islam if you say anything other than Afghan.

Aren't the Afghans peak "kuffar" then according to their definition? Afghans are loyal to their ethnic identity over the idea of a global ummah. You will never find an Afghan who supports ummah concept or pan-Islamism unlike Pakistani or Bangladeshi Muslims, as for mixing with the "dark" and "inferior" daalkhor Muslims of the subcontinent is unimaginable for them as they must preserve their ethnic identity and "purity".

 

[HttpError]

A new buffer zone/ a new Afghanistan should be carved out.

 

[TheSolution]

Aren't the Afghans "kuffar" then according to their definition? Afghans are loyal to their ethnic identity over the idea of a global ummah. You will never find an Afghan who supports ummah concept or pan-Islamism unlike Pakistani or Bangladeshi Muslims, as for mixing with the "dark" and "inferior" daalkhor Muslims of the subcontinent is unimaginable for them over preserving their ethnic identity and "purity".

Yes, they are ethnofacists, a lot of them view their Afghanwali as more important than Islam. I can't remember the saying but there's a common phrase they use "We have been Afghan since X years, but Muslim only for Y years".

It is ironic because if you study Afghanistan, every single accusation they make against Pakistan, they are literally guilty of it themselves.

They cry about American bases, meanwhile Daod Khan used Soviets against us, invaded us, and actively supported terror groups against us long before American bases in the 2000s.

They cry about genocide of Pashtuns in Pakistan which doesn’t even exist, meanwhile they actually genocide Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks.

They claim we are not Muslim because of "hera mandi", meanwhile they engage in bacha baazi. (Homosexual pedophilia)

They claim Pakistan has British borders, their own borders are drawn by the British.

(https://thediplomat.com/2015/04/how-the-british-and-the-russians-drew-the-afghan-turkmen-border/)

 

[R Wing]

Yep, have a read of my solution to this problem above and let me know what you think. I believe if we can pull this off it is our best bet at long term security. And Tajiks and Hazras have a long history of persecution and genocide by Afghans, the sentiment of separatism exists strongly in some.

It will be beneficial for powers like China too

Temporary friendly governments in Afghanistan are not solutions in my view. They are parasites that are waiting to grow to strike. We need permanent long-term solutions to truly secure our borders.

I like it. Generally speaking, the Tajiks also hate us. It will take A LOT to reverse that. If we take Amrullah Saleh as the poster boy, then it's reasonable to conclude that the powerful Tajiks had essentially become (literal) RAW assets --- and that too, quite openly. I am not suggesting that we should blame them for this --- they simply felt that we were supporting their enemies --- but we have to be aware of the intense, deeply ingrained hatred they have for us and that they cultivated amongst their people for two decades through psyops, etc. (everything is Pakistan's fault, it's the root cause of all evil, etc.)

We should probably also deport ALL refugees.

 

[TheSolution]

I like it. Generally speaking, the Tajiks also hate us. It will take A LOT to reverse that. If we take Amrullah Saleh as the poster boy, then it's reasonable to conclude that the powerful Tajiks had essentially become (literal) RAW assets --- and that too, quite openly. I am not suggesting that we should blame them for this --- they simply felt that we were supporting their enemies --- but we have to be aware of the intense, deeply ingrained hatred they have for us and that they cultivated amongst their people for two decades through psyops, etc. (everything is Pakistan's fault, it's the root cause of all evil, etc.)

We should probably also deport ALL refugees.

In my assessment it doesn't matter what personal dislike they have of us, they can have personal racism, etc, but what matters is political goals.

-Accepting the international boundary
-Not allowing their land to be used as a base for anti-Pakistan activity
-Maintain neutrality towards us at the least even if not wanting to be friends
-Bonus: have the same enemy in the Afghanistan context which are the Afghans so they can tackle them and save us time and resources.

I've spoken to some Taajiks, their leaders come and go, some get labelled as traitors, they just need someone to unite them together as one, as Taajiks. To point out their real enemies who are responsible for their persecution and colonisation of their lands. Pakistan is truly not their enemy.

A fierce leader to unite them and wake them up, will get rid of their hate. Their hate is circumstantial and a forced narrative that isn't based on reality.

To me this seems like a natural alliance. The hate against Pakistan in Taajiks was politically engineered through others, so they collectively followed the narrative.

 

[Titanium100]

This poster is an absolute idiot he has been over exaggerating single accidental border incidents and trying hard to insert Afghanistan into Pakistan local issues.

The guys on the other side in kabul admin have no interest in Pakistan he failed to grasp this cause if they had you would have known publically by now and our admin in Islamabad know that these elite in kabul only seek cooperation, common security in region and trade... Hence don't force an issue that is entirely not there..

All your threads have been based on speculations..

Fools like him lower the collective IQ of this forum into the dust bin.. Mods kindly limit retards from posting