The Pakistani State is Collapsing at a Very Fast Pace!

[Signalian]

I hope so...

It is not a continuous trend. It has ups and downs and takes time. No body wants it, but the direction is towards it. We have lost the eastern wing, some areas in Kashmir, Kashmir case, writ in Balochistan, etc heck, in Punjab. Any idea India was changing the Indus treaty unilaterally?

Anyway, the writ in Punjab means qabza mafia, uncontrolled price, thana culture, etc. It is like having small states which are operating on their own, just short of rebellion. In due time, it can occur too.

I reiterate that Aurangzeb died in 1707, but Mughal Empire's total collapse took 140 years more. Nonetheless, Audh/Awadh, Bengal, and Lakhnao immediately gained independence from Dehli after Aurengzeb.

So, the seeds are there. Let's see whether we go towards unification or dismemberment.

For every political manoeuvre, a counter step has to be developed to win the outcome, similarly for every weapon there is a counter-weapon deployed to destroy it. This is why talks, negotiations, meetings, treaties, agreements, etc keep taking a new turn while we sit online with limited knowledge on what’s happening in reality and what’s being handed out to media to report.

Consider the nuke, it was developed to stop a cut off of Pakistan like in 71, but the enemy then struck inside Pakistan rendering nuke useless in this case, so Armed Forces expanded and modernised along with other federal and provincial policing forces. Feb 2019 scenario also didn’t require nuke so conventional forces were used. In future, digital warfare is on the cards.

Military became strong in Pakistan seeing greed of assets and hunger for power by politicians. Military made its own infrastructure of business and production on the side and eventually that led to military controlling affairs in Pakistan whenever the time required, some good decisions, other bad ones. One of the important steps that military took was to create an intel network within itself to crush a mutiny before it could take an effective form. Mutinies were planned many times, but none could remove top brass. I have been mentioning that military is a career with most education and exams, at every step, almost every year at some ranks, so military keeps its officers highly educated at all levels. You get to see the picture how military carved itself to remain ahead in every field concerning Pakistan, even ahead of politicians. All those anti- Pakistan Army books that I read mention repeatedly how Army knew it had human resources in troops, it had money in the form of its own projects and defence industry even if it let go of budget hike to meet modern demands and how it used education/courses to get its officers ahead in academics than most other careers in Pakistan including R&D. Modern militaries have access to best technologies and this a trend in every country but only in Pakistan the civilian cadre is bit weaker in R&D which military tried to compensate through NUST. So the state within the state is one system in place that keeps Pakistan afloat, waking up to steer and make ways for recovery when a collapse is imminent. I posted somewhere else how IK had the opportunity to strengthen IB against ISI apart from other steps to strengthen the civilian federal government. These are a few factors I mentioned about Pakistan and Army, there are more, including Chinese investment, USA interest, Indian involvement against Pakistan etc

Mughal Army had a weak navy to start with which led Brits to the shores of India and create a permanent beachhead from which the Mughals never recovered. An important factor was different forces divided under different rulers where as Pakistan may have setup different governance levels for commanding different forces but the most well equipped is Army and will remain so. Then the joint ops of domestic forces of different cadres has created joint commands within federal and provincial level to counter terrorism. So in comparison, Pakistan Army has managed, run and invested massively to fortify itself and created backups from its own end to forbid a collapse. Mughal empire and its Mughal Army are not comparable.

 

[Signalian]

@Goenitz

Sorry for long post, I was in a mood to write I guess.

 

[PakAlp]

For every political manoeuvre, a counter step has to be developed to win the outcome, similarly for every weapon there is a counter-weapon deployed to destroy it. This is why talks, negotiations, meetings, treaties, agreements, etc keep taking a new turn while we sit online with limited knowledge on what’s happening in reality and what’s being handed out to media to report.

Consider the nuke, it was developed to stop a cut off of Pakistan like in 71, but the enemy then struck inside Pakistan rendering nuke useless in this case, so Armed Forces expanded and modernised along with other federal and provincial policing forces. Feb 2019 scenario also didn’t require nuke so conventional forces were used. In future, digital warfare is on the cards.

Military became strong in Pakistan seeing greed of assets and hunger for power by politicians. Military made its own infrastructure of business and production on the side and eventually that led to military controlling affairs in Pakistan whenever the time required, some good decisions, other bad ones. One of the important steps that military took was to create an intel network within itself to crush a mutiny before it could take an effective form. Mutinies were planned many times, but none could remove top brass. I have been mentioning that military is a career with most education and exams, at every step, almost every year at some ranks, so military keeps its officers highly educated at all levels. You get to see the picture how military carved itself to remain ahead in every field concerning Pakistan, even ahead of politicians. All those anti- Pakistan Army books that I read mention repeatedly how Army knew it had human resources in troops, it had money in the form of its own projects and defence industry even if it let go of budget hike to meet modern demands and how it used education/courses to get its officers ahead in academics than most other careers in Pakistan including R&D. Modern militaries have access to best technologies and this a trend in every country but only in Pakistan the civilian cadre is bit weaker in R&D which military tried to compensate through NUST. So the state within the state is one system in place that keeps Pakistan afloat, waking up to steer and make ways for recovery when a collapse is imminent. I posted somewhere else how IK had the opportunity to strengthen IB against ISI apart from other steps to strengthen the civilian federal government. These are a few factors I mentioned about Pakistan and Army, there are more, including Chinese investment, USA interest, Indian involvement against Pakistan etc

Mughal Army had a weak navy to start with which led Brits to the shores of India and create a permanent beachhead from which the Mughals Berber recovered. An important factor was different forces divided under different rulers where as Pakistan may have setup different governance levels for commanding different forces but the most well equipped is Army and will remain so. Then the joint ops of domestic forces of different cadres has created joint commands within federal and provincial level to counter terrorism. So in comparison, Pakistan Army has managed, run and invested massively to fortify itself and created backups from its own end to forbid a collapse. Mughal empire and its Mughal Army are not comparable.

Civilians are worse than the military. What have they done for Pakistan except corruption, bribery, tax evasion. Why have 100+ different political parties, why not the people of Pakistan gain education and bring in new faces, educated and patriotic Pakistanis and have 5 political parties for people to choose from. This will make the civilians strong and slowly the military will go back to the barracks.

If we look at the current crises, the judges that allowed the NCV, are now having issues with PDM regarding 90 days elections. If they all allies then why the difference?

IK was in the government, like you mentioned he should have made IB strong and FIA strong and independent, make reforms in the judiciary, police, health, education, EC, make the institutes strong and independent but he failed. Its too late now to blame everyone, if noone was listening then resign but he didnt do so.

After decades PPP completed full 5 terms and then PmlN completed full 5 terms, it was a sign of improvements in Pakistan. PTI simply lost the majority in the parliament and this is why Pmln/PPP voted IK out. Yes strings/bribery were pulled etc but PTI own MNAs betrayed IK, own allies such as Mqm, Bap betrayed him. Pti needs to get its own house in order and come back strong in October 2023 elections. If they don't then after a few years Zardari and Nawaz will start the same game of removing IK. Even Nawaz Sharif was removed before his time by the judges, he simply took the revenge on IK.

 

[Goenitz]

For every political manoeuvre, a counter step has to be developed to win the outcome, similarly for every weapon there is a counter-weapon deployed to destroy it. This is why talks, negotiations, meetings, treaties, agreements, etc keep taking a new turn while we sit online with limited knowledge on what’s happening in reality and what’s being handed out to media to report.

I agree. IK is not going bonkers like PTM/MQM etc.. but still have principles on which he cannot step back. Like, corruption, custodial torture and death. However, these are the hard pills to swallow for the establishment.
Otherwise, he is still saying that the military is vital and organised and can help like in past in different sectors, especially in corruption cases etc.

Consider the nuke, it was developed to stop a cut off of Pakistan like in 71, but the enemy then struck inside Pakistan rendering nuke useless in this case, so Armed Forces expanded and modernised along with other federal and provincial policing forces. Feb 2019 scenario also didn’t require nuke so conventional forces were used. In future, digital warfare is on the cards.

Totally, agree. In fact, India was going for a missile attack. Signalling, that it has no countermeasure but a strategic response or lack a steady escalation ladder.

Military became strong in Pakistan seeing greed of assets and hunger for power by politicians. Military made its own infrastructure of business and production on the side and eventually that led to military controlling affairs in Pakistan whenever the time required, some good decisions, other bad ones.

True. I can write in detail but things started way before the partition. In summary, ML had the following in UP, Bihar and Bengal. In current Pakistan, after 1937 election. Then came UP bureaucracy in Pakistan which had no grass root linkage to west Pakistan. They started ruling using civilian bureaucracy like DCs, ACs, etc. Army saw an opportunity that they can do the same and viola!! 1957. Early politicians were not monetary corrupt though but want to stick with the power. Liaqat Ali Khan was Nawab and had land equivalent to 2 divisions. He died poor. Iskander Mirza was working in hotel etc after expulsion.

All those anti- Pakistan Army books that I read mention repeatedly how Army knew it had human resources in troops, it had money in the form of its own projects and defence industry even if it let go of budget hike to meet modern demands and how it used education/courses to get its officers ahead in academics than most other careers in Pakistan including R&D.

Do not totally agree as it is extremely hard for the army to create faculties for every field. Like economics, R&D, etc. A simple measure is Army cannot make good quality songs or dramas but outsource these.
Also,the army structure cannot promote creativity, essential to R&D.
Lastly, we can compare only, if institutes have the same conditions like budget, support, etc.

So the state within the state is one system in place that keeps Pakistan afloat, waking up to steer and make ways for recovery when a collapse is imminent. I posted somewhere else how IK had the opportunity to strengthen IB against ISI apart from other steps to strengthen the civilian federal government.

Ch Nisar got a healthy budget on the directions of NS to strengthen IB eavesdropping. The aim was to tape, Army's, Judge's recordings to blackmail them later. That is why MN said that I have videos of some powerful people.

Mughal Army had a weak navy to start with which led Brits to the shores of India and create a permanent beachhead from which the Mughals Berber recovered. An important factor was different forces divided under different rulers where as Pakistan may have setup different governance levels for commanding different forces but the most well equipped is Army and will remain so. Then the joint ops of domestic forces of different cadres has created joint commands within federal and provincial level to counter terrorism. So in comparison, Pakistan Army has managed, run and invested massively to fortify itself and created backups from its own end to forbid a collapse. Mughal empire and its Mughal Army are not comparable.

Fair.. it was not a 100% comparison but I was emphasising the time. We have lost enough in 75 years and also gained in the same period. Nobody is spraying for Pak's collapse but we have fallen in many indicators. This trend cannot continue. Failure is a collection of numerous small missteps.

 

[Goenitz]

Civilians are worse than the military. What have they done for Pakistan except corruption, bribery, tax evasion. Why have 100+ different political parties, why not the people of Pakistan gain education and bring in new faces, educated and patriotic Pakistanis and have 5 political parties for people to choose from. This will make the civilians strong and slowly the military will go back to the barracks.

Military rulers brought up those rotten civilians. They were not organic. Be it Bhutto, NS, Benazir, MQM, IK, etc. They cut deals and some level with the military and came to power. Then, they showed their spine/ideology and forwards groups created like PPPP from PPP, MQM H from MQM, PTI Nazriati, PML Sherpao group, etc.

Those civilian rulers were greedy, came to power for corruption, compromised since the beginning etc. Later they saw the military as a hurdle in their absolute power grab or corruption (97 PMLN episode Kiramat, 58 2B, Amirul Momeneen).

Those civilians violated the constitution with abrogators (marshall law) and later on their own to their suitings. Technically, they meant corruption only with/without military backing. guess, who is eager to bring Bilawal to power! or brought SS as PM? Public?

Likes of Fatimah Jinnah, Mujeeb, Asghar Khan, etc were sidelined.

 

[ghazi52]

,..,.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641891564287938576

 

[Enigma SIG]

End result is Gaddafi or Saddam style execution anyway.

 

[PakAlp]

Military rulers brought up those rotten civilians. They were not organic. Be it Bhutto, NS, Benazir, MQM, IK, etc. They cut deals and some level with the military and came to power. Then, they showed their spine/ideology and forwards groups created like PPPP from PPP, MQM H from MQM, PTI Nazriati, PML Sherpao group, etc.

Those civilian rulers were greedy, came to power for corruption, compromised since the beginning etc. Later they saw the military as a hurdle in their absolute power grab or corruption (97 PMLN episode Kiramat, 58 2B, Amirul Momeneen).

Those civilians violated the constitution with abrogators (marshall law) and later on their own to their suitings. Technically, they meant corruption only with/without military backing. guess, who is eager to bring Bilawal to power! or brought SS as PM? Public?

Likes of Fatimah Jinnah, Mujeeb, Asghar Khan, etc were sidelined.

I understand that but where were the people of Pakistan? Why didn't they deny their votes to these corrupt? The weakness is the people. You visit pia office, airports, the officials/workers will not entertain you without you giving them chai paani. The corrupt MNAs will loose their seats if they dont involve themselves in corruption because the people who walk with them, support them etc want contracts from them, and they eat all the money, they want safarishi jobs for their children and relatives or else they will join the opposition.

In reality everyone is a mafia, the families, baradaris, pia people, businessmen, politicians, lawyers, army act like mafia and protect their own at all cost. The problem is deeper than we think, it starts from bottom to the top.

We may disagree with Dr Tahir ul Qadri but he got this one right 100%. According to the constitution and law the parliament is illegitimate.

 

[ziaulislam]

I actually disagree with you here. I don’t see PMLN winning from any of these cities if elections were held today.

Even if they don't win today they will win back in 2028(assuming the election cycle continues)

 

[Tamerlane]

The difference between the generals and the top criminal politicians is a thin one. They’re all related through intermarriage. They attend parties together, they drink whiskey together, play golf together etc. The generals, PMLN, PPP etc are all best friends.

The reason that the generals use the ISI internal wing to rig elections and get the criminal Nawaz and Zardari families back in power is because they’re all beneficiaries of the status quo at the cost of the people of Pakistan.

Zardari & Nawaz loot the country and share the spoils with the generals. Not only have the generals increased their perks and privileges to ridiculously super luxury levels, but they also get a share in criminal activities like smuggling, bribery etc.

The worst thing the generals have done is to throttle the economy. They and their pet criminals have become allies with the major business houses to protect their (legitimate) business empires through subsidies, import duties, and other benefits.

Instead of people investing in new businesses, export industries, high tech etc we have the generals and politicians protecting ancient industries like making socks and vests. Witness Pakistani businessmen meeting the COAS.

The result is that Pakistan has negligible exports and falling even more, which is the cause of the current economic collapse.

Imran Khans’s government was about to start implementation of a 10-year program to increase exports to $111 billion. But Bajwa and the generals overthrew him before it could happen.

 

[ThunderCat]

Troubled times ahead. But I think collapse is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[One_Nation]

For every political manoeuvre, a counter step has to be developed to win the outcome, similarly for every weapon there is a counter-weapon deployed to destroy it. This is why talks, negotiations, meetings, treaties, agreements, etc keep taking a new turn while we sit online with limited knowledge on what’s happening in reality and what’s being handed out to media to report.

Consider the nuke, it was developed to stop a cut off of Pakistan like in 71, but the enemy then struck inside Pakistan rendering nuke useless in this case, so Armed Forces expanded and modernised along with other federal and provincial policing forces. Feb 2019 scenario also didn’t require nuke so conventional forces were used. In future, digital warfare is on the cards.

Military became strong in Pakistan seeing greed of assets and hunger for power by politicians. Military made its own infrastructure of business and production on the side and eventually that led to military controlling affairs in Pakistan whenever the time required, some good decisions, other bad ones. One of the important steps that military took was to create an intel network within itself to crush a mutiny before it could take an effective form. Mutinies were planned many times, but none could remove top brass. I have been mentioning that military is a career with most education and exams, at every step, almost every year at some ranks, so military keeps its officers highly educated at all levels. You get to see the picture how military carved itself to remain ahead in every field concerning Pakistan, even ahead of politicians. All those anti- Pakistan Army books that I read mention repeatedly how Army knew it had human resources in troops, it had money in the form of its own projects and defence industry even if it let go of budget hike to meet modern demands and how it used education/courses to get its officers ahead in academics than most other careers in Pakistan including R&D. Modern militaries have access to best technologies and this a trend in every country but only in Pakistan the civilian cadre is bit weaker in R&D which military tried to compensate through NUST. So the state within the state is one system in place that keeps Pakistan afloat, waking up to steer and make ways for recovery when a collapse is imminent. I posted somewhere else how IK had the opportunity to strengthen IB against ISI apart from other steps to strengthen the civilian federal government. These are a few factors I mentioned about Pakistan and Army, there are more, including Chinese investment, USA interest, Indian involvement against Pakistan etc

Mughal Army had a weak navy to start with which led Brits to the shores of India and create a permanent beachhead from which the Mughals never recovered. An important factor was different forces divided under different rulers where as Pakistan may have setup different governance levels for commanding different forces but the most well equipped is Army and will remain so. Then the joint ops of domestic forces of different cadres has created joint commands within federal and provincial level to counter terrorism. So in comparison, Pakistan Army has managed, run and invested massively to fortify itself and created backups from its own end to forbid a collapse. Mughal empire and its Mughal Army are not comparable.

When the country is going down a sinkhole, this is what you have to justify the crimes of military. Military standing on its own while the country burns, what a misguided sense of achievement.
This country has never seen real progress, never been stable, never seen rule of law mostly because of the army and people like you want to manipulate this through fairytales.

 

[MilSpec]

Disintegration of the state. Unfortunately, there are too many fault lines in Pakistan and society is polarized.

The institutions have become a tool of oppression and dysfunctional.

Ultimately, that isn't about Imran Khan anymore. It's gone way beyond that. The state has started to implode and the real powers military establishment have lost control and they only know one thing: force.


This force (i.e. open terrorist) by Pakistani military establishment is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.



As your PDF id days: it's Bleek

What are you babbling about, consignment of 6 new J10C's just arrived.

 

[Riz]

Pakistan Army has managed, run and invested massively to fortify itself and created backups from its own end to forbid a collapse. Mughal empire and its Mughal Army are not comparable

They are creating own backups while destroying country economy ? kesy kar laity ho bhai yeh dramy baziaan ?

 

[Neelo]

Collapse is a bit of an overreaction and doesn’t make sense. Why would THEY (The Hierarchy which Enslaves You) destroy their own cash cow? That doesn’t benefit GHQ or Pakistan Dalla Movement either.

If anything a series of carefully orchestrated events and crises are being created artificially in order to prevent the elections from taking place.

This includes:
1. Increased terrorism
2. Decrease law and order
3. Inflation
4. Dead end cases

The fact these traitor American bootlicking generals are willing to go to this length shows not only the psychotic nature of them but the desperation they’re in.

They expected people to shower them with rose pedals while cursing the PDM….classic divide and rule tactic.

Instead we see the Dalla Movement and GHQ as one….a horse and carriage. You can’t have one without the otheir.