The Ottoman Empire - demise of a major power

[-blitzkrieg-]

Ottoman Empire: PLEASE COME BACK... .................the Muslim world has been suffering since you've been gone......

No need to cry over spilled milk.
Instead Pakistan should do whatever at its disposal to make a stronger regional block comprising Turkey Azerbaijan and other nations.We need new 'Tanzimat' that helps us gain what was lost and learn from old mistakes.

 

[maravan91]

Ottomans empire never reached present day pakistan. Dont Know why pakistanis r fascinating with ottomons

 

[Cookie Monster]

Everything is Fa'ni, only HE is Ba'ki...

The proxy traitors were carefully raised and implanted at important positions to kill the Saltanat from inside. And, extensive propaganda against the Sultan played a great role. Especially after the discovery of petroleum, the "Great Game" was geared up to the ultimate level. The final stage was the coup by Masons that dethroned Sultan Abdul Hamid Han. Six centuries of the Jihan Devlet was lost in six years of rule by proxy traitors...

The net result is that the Muslims lost their lives, property, wealth, honor etc. The worst part is the most fundamental tenets of practices, based on 14 centuries of a accumulated Islamic knowledge, was lost too!!! A new breed of Islam, devised at the basements of the imperialist intelligence HQs under the direct supervision of Iblis, was put into action to re-brand Muslims as terrorists!!! And, to exhaust all of their energies in "Muslim vs Muslim" and "Islam vs Islam" fights!!!! Since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire the Muslim heartlands haven't seen a single day of peace!!! Only solace is that they achieved their goals only after engaging the the Ottomans in wars for almost a decade where one third of the male population was sacrificed.....

U nailed it. The reason why Ottoman Empire(the last powerful Muslim empire) ceased to exist was more due to internal divisions of Muslims. The Muslims today think that they are no longer powerful and look towards their past glory days. However they still have everything and can be powerful if they so desire. There are many Muslim countries who have considerable military strength. There are many Muslim countries that are rich. Money, military power, man power...it's all there...all we lack is unity.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Nothing is certain or vanquished. We can achieve or bring back anything if we have the will power to do so.

The ottoman EMpire as a ALL right now ( if it comes back) will be a failure. it was a good sys for his time, but not for today. So just make something better suitable for our time than leaning on past greatness.

Read some book at the Time of the Ottoman rise...where ppl were praising the greatness of the past Arab caliphate in the early age of the Ottoman EMpire... and yet we know that the Caliphate had flows and a lot of them and that his fall was necessary... and we had the result with the greatness of the Ottoman one... same goes for today... praising the past without thinking for the future and what we will achieve...

and we shall remember that the Ottoman empire fall only a century ago...

U nailed it. The reason why Ottoman Empire(the last powerful Muslim empire) ceased to exist was more due to internal divisions of Muslims. The Muslims today think that they are no longer powerful and look towards their past glory days. However they still have everything and can be powerful if they so desire. There are many Muslim countries who have considerable military strength. There are many Muslim countries that are rich. Money, military power, man power...it's all there...all we lack is unity.

Never the region got Unity without being under one power/man/entity... and that was even before any Islamic era... and it will continue till our last day on earth...

So for those wanting unity in the region...just forget it... get yourself rdy if you want that king chair...othrwise wait for someone else to take it from you and at this moment you will get the unity some desire...Till then.. Enjoy the firework show for decades to come...

And NO the ottoman EMpire as a ALL didn't fall bc of disunity inside/among them... but a lack of adaptation and leaning on past tresor...
Some may say, it's because the lack of a suitable sucessor to the throne with no vision...Well you are right... but that how the Ottoman EMpire work... the succession is a game of chance... whatever the baby boy is a good or a bad one..;you have to bear with it... till the end and therefore bear the consequences... in another Word... the Sultan succession system WAS one of the EMpire downfall... and the irony in it... is this sys was at first the key to Ottoman greatness

"What rised by humans, shall fall by it"

 

[Cookie Monster]

Never the region got Unity without being under one power/man/entity... and that was even before any Islamic era... and it will continue till our last day on earth...

So for those wanting unity in the region...just forget it... get yourself rdy if you want that king chair...othrwise wait for someone else to take it from you and at this moment you will get the unity some desire...Till then.. Enjoy the firework show for decades to come...

And NO the ottoman EMpire as a ALL didn't fall bc of disunity inside/among them... but a lack of adaptation and leaning on past tresor...

I understand that this "unity" may never come...I was just merely pointing out that with "unity" Muslims can be powerful again.

As for the downfall of the Ottoman Empire...I said the internal divisions were one of the factors. I didn't say it was the sole reason. I am aware there were a lot of other things at play internal and external that caused such an outcome.

 

[Lavrentiy]

The Ottoman Empire was a piece of garbage that had to go into the dustbin of history. Good riddance.

Anyways, only Turks can relate to the Ottoman Empire as they were the rulers and the beneficiaries. The Arab Muslims and Balkan Christians absolutely detest the Empire even to this day. The Bosnian Genocide is rooted in this hatred.

Muslims of the subcontinent were stupid as usual to support the Ottoman Empire. Even to this day, Ummah lovers, who are neither Arabs nor Turks, continue to shower their love for these so-called Muslim empires. Their mental derangement is so severe that they ascribe themselves to these empires as they are somehow the direct descendants of those rulers and conquerors.

It is understandable that a Turk has feelings for his/her glorious past but Pakistanis????????????????

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the Ottoman Empire for good or worse was stable entity which lasted for 400-500 years
So with that stated , they had ample opportunity to contribute to various elements of social life and in sciences.

As a Muslims I think I certainly relate to Ottoman Empire and certainly find that it offered a better overall package for Muslim cause sure towards the end of it's existence it suffered from lack of revenue and taxation finding

However it still gave a unified front for Muslims from Africa to outskirts of Asia

The Education standards I would imagine during that time were reasonable and also there was contribution in arts and architecture.

The post Ottoman Era is a world dominated by Saudi-Iran geo politics

As I stated before , had Ottoman Empire held on their Lands for 30 more years the Empire would have benefited from discovery of Oil (Black Gold) on it's land and who knows Muslims would have been the first people to land on Moon

There is no such things as SUB CONTINENT there is no such thing as South Asia
All these terms were invented to create a sense of separation between regional countries


If maps from last 2000-3000 years ago are examined you will see that most of time
Countries of Iran/Iraq/90% of Pakistan/ Afghanistan/Syria/Palestine/Jordan/Egypt etc Turkey
all had shared borders so while people may not agree on this common bond but the maps don't lie

Going back to the talking about ottoman Empire I think they had a rich cultural aspect an identity

Ottoman Empire was a very Universal nation quite an impressive entity that lasted that long


The post Ottoman Empire , Muslim world has not really progressed that much if you really examine things from a very unbiased point of view

• Socially
  
• Economically
  
• Educationally
  
• Scientifically
  
• Medically

Total GDP of may be 80-90% of Muslim countries will be equal to 10 Corporations in USA
If you remove the Black Gold wealth from Middle east , there is not much to talk about

• Progress really is if you improve your standard of living and remove poverty and reduce unemployment , so with that as a bench mark we can see most Muslim countries do not pass the test

 

[Well.wisher]

The Ottoman Empire was a piece of garbage that had to go into the dustbin of history. Good riddance.

Anyways, only Turks can relate to the Ottoman Empire as they were the rulers and the beneficiaries. The Arab Muslims and Balkan Christians absolutely detest the Empire even to this day. The Bosnian Genocide is rooted in this hatred.

Muslims of the subcontinent were stupid as usual to support the Ottoman Empire. Even to this day, Ummah lovers, who are neither Arabs nor Turks, continue to shower their love for these so-called Muslim empires. Their mental derangement is so severe that they ascribe themselves to these empires as they are somehow the direct descendants of those rulers and conquerors.

It is understandable that a Turk has feelings for his/her glorious past but Pakistanis????????????????

Khilafat movement proved the fact that muslims and Hindus are separate nations and thus paved the way for islamic Republic of pakistan. It created political awareness in us .
Khilafat does have a relation with the creation of pakistan .

 

[Attila the Hun]

Muslims of the subcontinent were stupid as usual to support the Ottoman Empire.

They did not. Muslims in that part of the world supported the British.

But you are right. Muslims even in the Balkans revolted against the Ottomans. The Muslims of the Balkans still hate Turks(Ottomans) to this day. Especially the Pomaks.

The Arabs, again, were badly treated by the Ottomans, which is why they revolted and fought for the British.

I would say, most Muslims around the World hate Turkish people because of the Ottomans.

 

[HannibalBarca]

They did not. Muslims in that part of the world supported the British.

But you are right. Muslims even in the Balkans revolted against the Ottomans. The Muslims of the Balkans still hate Turks(Ottomans) to this day. Especially the Pomaks.

The Arabs, again, were badly treated by the Ottomans, which is why they revolted and fought for the British.

I would say, most Muslims around the World hate Turkish people because of the Ottomans.

the Muslims who hate Turks bc of the ottoman??? who exactly?
Because if you take a round of Q among Muslims around the world and their sentiment on Turks... you will get 2 answers 1/ Turks are brothers... and 2/ I don't know... Those who will hate on Turks will be those who have direct conflict links with them... The memories of Ottomans and hate for some is already gonne with their grand-grand fathers...
Today "hate" is from another kind... mostly driven by either by recent history conflicts..; like you turks have with Armenians per exemple or "some" arabs toward Turks when it comes to geopolitical conflicts (Qatar/Syria/Iraq/kurdistan etc...) and even that type of hate is used toward an entity, that is "Turkey/Erdogan" and not the "people"...

AND even under the ottomans..; I don't recall my grand grand fathers or others speaking ill of "Turkish" people " in general..;but only when it comes to Beys/SUltans and their Sys of repression/corruption and power... and their cowardice when it comes to fight back against colons and their treachery when they sold their countries to EU invaders, just to keep their seats and gold...

 

[Attila the Hun]

the Muslims who hate Turks bc of the ottoman??? who exactly?
Because if you take a round of Q among Muslims around the world and their sentiment on Turks... you will get 2 answers 1/ Turks are brothers... and 2/ I don't know... Those who will hate on Turks will be those who have direct conflict links with them... The memories of Ottomans and hate for some is already gonne with their grand-grand fathers...
Today "hate" is from another kind... mostly driven by either by recent history conflicts..; like you turks have with Armenians per exemple or "some" arabs toward Turks when it comes to geopolitical conflicts (Qatar/Syria/Iraq/kurdistan etc...) and even that type of hate is used toward an entity, that is "Turkey/Erdogan" and not the "people"...

AND even under the ottomans..; I don't recall my grand grand fathers or others speaking ill of "Turkish" people " in general..;but only when it comes to Beys/SUltans and their Sys of repression/corruption and power... and their cowardice when it comes to fight back against colons and their treachery when they sold their countries to EU invaders, just to keep their seats and gold...

This is Baghdad. The Muslims in Turkey will say the West made the Iraqis do this, but we know the truth.

What is the truth? They do not just hate Erdogan, they hate the Turkish flag, the Turkish people. And what we live for.

These are Muslims. That hate Turks. There're many that love us, which is good. I only said most Muslims around the world dislike Turks. obviously Pakistanis are cool with us(not all, many hate us for politics like the one that commented above)

You mention Armenians? We have zero hatred for Armenians, they barely enter our minds.

These are Syrians.

 

[HannibalBarca]

This is Baghdad. The Muslims in Turkey will say the West made the Iraqis do this, but we know the truth. View attachment 435731

What is the truth? They do not just hate Erdogan, they hate the Turkish flag, the Turkish people. And what we live for.

These are Muslims. That hate Turks. There're many that love us, which is good. I only said most Muslims around the world dislike Turks. obviously Pakistanis are cool with us(not all, many hate us for politics like the one that commented above)

You mention Armenians? We have zero hatred for Armenians, they barely enter our minds.

View attachment 435732

These are Syrians.

What ujust put are enemies of Turkey and therefore their politics... the Iraqi pic is from shia ppl in bassorah... against Turkish military in north Iraq...
and the SEcond are from ASSad shia militia... who are not liking turkish soldiers/influence in north Syria...

So yes those are ppl agaisnt Turkish presence... not the Turks as a whole...

So no... 95% of muslims do not hate Turkey neither turkish ppl... showing us few pics or statement of few muslims do not represent a whole group... it's like saying every kurdish soul on earth hate turks...bc YPg/PKK is burning the Turkish flag... see the logic?

And if by anychance the majority of arabs/muslims or whatever hate Turks... then TUrkey will have no foot, no biz, no place in any of those countries... they will be blocked and even killed on spot and the realityis that it's untrue...

Ofc you can keep your biased mind into thinking it's not true and that you are right...but in the End facts are here... and No, the great great majority of muslims do not hate Turks neither Turkey...

 

[Attila the Hun]

showing us few pics or statement of few muslims do not represent a whole group

You are right. Although, I don't think I said all these groups(pics) represent all Iraqis or Syrians. just giving an example. you agree, it can't just be politics, if they're burning flags, right?. Obviously like you said earlier, some don't care for politics

And if by anychance the majority of arabs/muslims or whatever hate Turks

I never mentioned Arabs, I said Pomaks example, that revolted and some today dislike us. because of..errr Ottomans. Albanians also revolted against the Ottomans. And many today hate us. NOT ALL OF COURSE. AND NO NOT POLITICS.

No, the great great majority of muslims do not hate Turks neither Turkey

Calm down. I never said that.

Ofc you can keep your biased

I was only trolling a bit, am bored.

 

[DejanSRB]

Ottoman Empire was unlucky to exist too late for ancient period and to exist too early for modern period.
Simply, Ottoman empire was just military superpower, but economically it was too dependent on fragile trade between its vassal nations. Islam made them economicaly dissfunctinal.
Culturally, they dont make nothing worth to be remembered, they export Arabian religion and Islam was the main obstacle to made Ottoman not just a big and powerful empire, but great in its purest form.

They made some nice changes ( if you want to remain on your lands just pay Jizya, that was really great leap forward in whole civilized world, they build bathrooms and in that way they made Balkans more cleaner then rest of Europe, I will just tell you my everyday routine, I wash my hands for about 30 times a day, and when I touch my mobile, laptop, desktop, car...I would rather die then to avoid washing my hands before lunch. Something that should be respected from Ottoman legacy).

But in terms of technology, arts, culture...it was 6 centuries of nothing. Nothing worth remembering.
In 17th century, Europeans started to translate Sun Tzu, they started to read Sheakspere and Don Quixote. They enjoyed winds of change from North. Ottoman Empire was remote part, "undeveloped country of Muslim invaders" quote by Oliver Cromwell.

There are only two of most powerful non Western nations in last 1000 years.
Turks and Russians.
But when we looked objectively. Russians achieved alot more. In literature, in classical music, in technology and arts. They started from the bottom but they incorporated themselves in Western cultural world. Ottoman Empire never achieved that.

Why? Russians in 17th century wasnt any smarter then people in Ottoman empire.
Just one name and one event.
Peter the Great was born two centuries before Mustafa Kemal. That was the only thing that matters. If Ataturk was born in 17 century, today we would have Ottoman republic to the Hungary.

From perspective of one Serbian historian, all of Ottoman military achievements fall to the boots of blue eyed Turk. He is the one that is worth remembering. One of few from 20th century.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Ottoman Empire was unlucky to exist too late for ancient period and to exist too early for modern period.
Simply, Ottoman empire was just military superpower, but economically it was too dependent on fragile trade between its vassal nations. Islam made them economicaly dissfunctinal.
Culturally, they dont make nothing worth to be remembered, they export Arabian religion and Islam was the main obstacle to made Ottoman not just a big and powerful empire, but great in its purest form.

Nope and utterly wrong... Ottoman EMpire existed and florished BECAUSE of Islam..;without it, it will never exist... Ottomans are not a tribe from nowhere..;they were the Seljuks... and therefore existed under Arab reign...
No Culture... sometimes ppl...

They made some nice changes ( if you want to remain on your lands just pay Jizya, that was really great leap forward in whole civilized world, they build bathrooms and in that way they made Balkans more cleaner then rest of Europe, I will just tell you my everyday routine, I wash my hands for about 30 times a day, and when I touch my mobile, laptop, desktop, car...I would rather die then to avoid washing my hands before lunch. Something that should be respected from Ottoman legacy).
But in terms of technology, arts, culture...it was 6 centuries of nothing. Nothing worth remembering.
In 17th century, Europeans started to translate Sun Tzu, they started to read Sheakspere and Don Quixote. They enjoyed winds of change from North. Ottoman Empire was remote part, "undeveloped country of Muslim invaders" quote by Oliver Cromwell.

if that what you know of The Ottomans, then I'm not suprised about your "analysis"... Ottoman ARE the founders of today Administration system... per exemple... That's something you forgot to read it seems...
Second , EVery EMpire has his role... Arts and Culture and so on were already flourishing under previous ARab Caliphate, like the Abbassids one... Read about it...
Third... Ottomans paved the way to Modern Military sys...Just try to read if it's not to hard for you, about Military sys of the Ottoman...and you will suprised... THe Europe conquest is a jewel of information...
Europe got out of the Dark Age thanks to us..; thanks to the knowledge they acquired with Andalousia/Crusades and Ottoman European incursion...

What European past author spoke about is the late days of the Ottoman EMpire... that's a facts for everyone... they were not viable anymore at the end, and their fall was inevitable...like any EMpire...

There are only two of most powerful non Western nations in last 1000 years.
Turks and Russians.
But when we looked objectively. Russians achieved alot more. In literature, in classical music, in technology and arts. They started from the bottom but they incorporated themselves in Western cultural world. Ottoman Empire never achieved that.

Why? Russians in 17th century wasnt any smarter then people in Ottoman empire.
Just one name and one event.
Peter the Great was born two centuries before Mustafa Kemal. That was the only thing that matters. If Ataturk was born in 17 century, today we would have Ottoman republic to the Hungary.

Last 1000years = a start from Year 1000 ... Russia was nothing at that time..;bc it didn't exist at that moment... and so did the Ottoman EMpire...
Year 1000, they was only one superpower at that time and it was the Arab Caliphate, they were in the middle of their conquest... till 1200-1300...
Ottoman don't need to incoporate into Western world..;since they have theirown world at that time...those seeking incoporation are those lacking THE thing to fill it... Russia was nothing till the rise of Tzars... till the soviet era... don't try to put greatness where they were none...

And Here a sentence from a wise man" Alexender the GReat will have been a simple teenager in our time... his greatness came from being born in his time..."

PS: for the sake of the exchange, read the story on BOTH sides and not only back page summaries...