The new details of Iranian Trimaran Frigate, “Safineh”

[Philosopher]

this man's brain isnt good at logic!! be warned u might be wasting ur time..

I call this "open humiliation therapy". Sometimes with children you have humiliate them for them to get the strong, life long lesson.

 

[Philosopher]

No its not a claim, iran made a tall claim, its my reaction to that claim. U seriously are dumb man.

Time to educate you on the definition of a claim. From Oxford:

"state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof."

Your statement:

2200 to 3000 tons displacement, helicopter, 96 vls, 8 horizontal, 40+ knots speed lolzz i call BS.

I am not here to teach you basic English.

From past hour u cudnt give a single logical reply but now u find someone's reply and quoting it here, where is ur brain? Or ur a mouthpiece from.madrassah n too stupid to come up with logic?

If you actually bothered to read, you would realised I had stated the same thing earlier in the thread.

Now for the comment. You simply cannot have a very large ship for the same weight, there is a limit,

Define "very large" in the context of this discussion. What is the limit exactly.

u cannot built it with a paper.

Strawman argument.

You need structural integrity of materials as well, so there is a limit for the size.

And he never stated otherwise.

Do u know the weight of an empty 8 cell module is more than 3 tons

Is Iran using an 8 cell modules such as Mark-41? You don't know anything about these VLSs. You're just asserting your own beliefs without any proof. Tell me how much these VLS that Iran will use weigh?

Add missiles, add radars, wirings, 8 horizontal launchers, helicopter, heli equipment, weight of structure, weight of fuel, weight of all the electronic systems, personnel, engines.

And yet I am still waiting for you to show why this ship could not support those VLS. You're just writing anything that comes to your head. All ships carry those hardwares etc, this makes no difference to this discussion, We are already taking those into account.

There is a reason why u never see a 3000 ton category ship carrying 96 vls.

You have not provided proof for this claim, just mere psedo-engineering claims.

The person who gave the above logic also said he is not an expert yet he is way way smarter than a moron like u who talks as if an expert but gave zero logical reasoning and in end had to resort to someone else's comment. Wow man, just wow.

1) Where did he say he is not an expert? You're confusing two different users.
2) I am using someone else comment so you can see others believe the same thing.
3) Fact are fact regardless of who states it.

Well i would say BS because it comes from a rogue and liar regime with zero credibility.

Thus far, only you have shown to have zero credibility.

This regime also said its scientifically impossible that a passenger plane got hit but accepted after videos surfaced.

1) Iran officially never made that statement
2) Iran could have denied it ever shot it down but did not
3) This has nothing to do with this discussion, you're trying to change topic.

So yeah i would call it BS and its for u to provide concrete evidence. When u make a tall claim that no one is ready to accept, its ur job to provide proof. U cannot do taqya here.

You made a claim and we're asking for you to back your claims. You're trying to escape from that. You're not going to get far!

Did i claim we made such a ship? It was iran that made such a tall claim

You claimed it cannot happen and you cannot prove it.

evwn the US or china or russia dont have such a ship, so i have reasons enough to doubt it. Its ur job to provide proofs to back that tall claim. Is this too complicated for u to understand?

Now we're going in circles. What part of this:

"No else has built it before ≠ No one can else build it."

Was not clear to you?

I never said no one can build it. I said i doubt if iran can build it, its ur job to clear that doubt with proofs.

Your doubt means nothing if you cannot back them up with something substantive.
If you wanted us to explain to you why they design is feasible, then you should not have acted like you're some engineer that knew this design would not work.

So ur accepting that ur a regime mouthpiece.

Resorting to more lies. Why am I not surprised?

I kept saying that but u denied, good that i know ur a low wage, lowlife rwgime mouthpiece with zeeo braincells. Do they give u pre approved replies to post or do u report to them and then reply? How much do u get paid? I doubt its more than a few cents a day, or is it per post money? In that case u should be thankful to me, u made good money today.

If only you could be more original. Even your insults are weak.

U think u can overwhelm me on my country's forum and blackmail me??? Quote me next time and then ill expose ur reality and the reality of that khamenei pig.

Seems you're getting overly emotional now. This is why I keep telling you not to get yourself involved in conversations that are above your level. It was good advise, take it.

 

[TNT]

Time to educate you on the definition of a claim. From Oxford:

"state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof."

Your statement:



I am not here to teach you basic English.



If you actually bothered to read, you would realised I had stated the same thing earlier in the thread.



Define "very large" in the context of this discussion. What is the limit exactly.



Strawman argument.



And he never stated otherwise.



Is Iran using an 8 cell modules such as Mark-41? You don't know anything about these VLSs. You're just asserting your own beliefs without any proof. Tell me how much these VLS that Iran will use weigh?



And yet I am still waiting for you to show why this ship could not support those VLS. You're just writing anything that comes to your head. All ships carry those hardwares etc, this makes no difference to this discussion, We are already taking those into account.



You have not provided proof for this claim, just mere psedo-engineering claims.



1) Where did he say he is not an expert? You're confusing two different users.
2) I am using someone else comment so you can see others believe the same thing.
3) Fact are fact regardless of who states it.



Thus far, only you have shown to have zero credibility.



1) Iran officially never made that statement
2) Iran could have denied it ever shot it down but did not
3) This has nothing to do with this discussion, you're trying to change topic.



You made a claim and we're asking for you to back your claims. You're trying to escape from that. You're not going to get far!



You claimed it cannot happen and you cannot prove it.




Now we're going in circles. What part of this:

"No else has built it before ≠ No one can else build it."

Was not clear to you?




Your doubt means nothing if you cannot back them up with something substantive.
If you wanted us to explain to you why they design is feasible, then you should not have acted like you're some engineer that knew this design would not work.




Resorting to more lies. Why am I not surprised?



If only you could be more original. Even your insults are weak.




Seems you're getting overly emotional now. This is why I keep telling you not to get yourself involved in conversations that are above your level. It was good advise, take it.

A classic example of going around in circles. Ur trying to prove that i made a claim? Ok i made a claim of calling it BS. Reasons i gave, history, pseudo engineering, layman bla bla all that, what is ur proof? Prove to me why no super powers like US, Russia, china, Britain, france have been able to build such a miracle ship and only sanctions ridden iran did it??? Again to clear u, it does not mean its impossible, but prove to me how iran can do it? I gave u example of weight of typical ones used, i do not know what iran uses because no one knows, so why didn't u give detail of what type n weight iran uses??? Instead u chose to act smart n dodge answers and act like a typical bot? Tell me what engine will it use and its weight? Weight of horizontal launchers and prove to me that all that weight can be carried and balanced on a 2200 to 3000 ton class ship and achieve 40+ knkts speed. Can u prove that? If not then dont rant or try to reply just for the sake of it or for money.
You think ur defending ur country but only making it worst. I seriously pitty ur existence, i hope u grow a brain.

2) Iran could have denied it ever shot it down but did not

Iran did deny it for 3 days. Did u miss that part? Were u not here when it was a hot news and mullah regime mouthpieces here were denying it and accusing us of being sectarian. Its when iran accepted it, suddenly all u disappeared n went silent lolz.
https://www.businessinsider.com/iranians-say-its-impossible-commercial-jet-was-hit-by-missile-2020-1

Ur official gives a statement and then u deny it. Did u arrest that official for lies?

https://www.polygraph.info/a/iran-ps752-missile-fact-check/30371408.html

Dor God sake have some shame.

 

[Philosopher]

A classic example of going around in circles.

I am afraid, you're guilty as charge!

Ur trying to prove that i made a claim? Ok i made a claim of calling it BS.

Good, now we're getting somewhere. Well done for admitting.

Reasons i gave, history, pseudo engineering, layman bla bla all that,

Those were not reasons that would be accepted by anyone with any level of understanding in these things.

what is ur proof?

1) The design of the frigate is done and it will have 96vls
2) There is zero reason, engineering wise why it is not feasible

Prove to me why no super powers like US, Russia, china, Britain, france have been able to build such a miracle ship and only sanctions ridden iran did it???

If they wanted to build a ship like this, they could. It's not a matter of capability but wanting to do it. Such as ship has its own downside (due to increased risk of explosions etc).

Again to clear u, it does not mean its impossible, but prove to me how iran can do it?

As above

I gave u example of weight of typical ones used,

Apples and oranges.

1) We do not know the size of these Iranian VLS. Are they small? (most likely), medium?
2) What materials are they made of? Metal? Composite? (most likely)

Hence why your example was not relevant.

i do not know what iran uses because no one knows,

Exactly.

so why didn't u give detail of what type n weight iran uses???

Why do I need do that? I am saying this design by Iran is possible. the details of weight etc are not known to anyone except Iran. All that matters is Iran has officially stated it will have 96 VLS.

Instead u chose to act smart n dodge answers and act like a typical bot?

1) You made the claim it was not possible
2) You want me to help you prove it
3) That is a fallacy

Tell me what engine will it use and its weight?

Could be the Bonyan-4 engine or even the 20MW turbine they navy is working on. Not confirmed. What does the weigh of the engine have to do with anything here?

Weight of horizontal launchers and prove to me that all that weight can be carried and balanced on a 2200 to 3000 ton class ship and achieve 40+ knkts speed. Can u prove that?

My proof is there is no evidence that it cannot be done. Your proof for your claim is none-existance.

If not then dont rant or try to reply just for the sake of it or for money.

As above.

You think ur defending ur country but only making it worst. I seriously pitty ur existence, i hope u grow a brain.

What I have done is hilighted your inability to provide any form of backings for this claim this ship's design is not feasible and your rather weak and disappointing desperation to try shift the burden of proof on others. Lets not even mention your petty insults.

Iran did deny it for 3 days. Did u miss that part? Were u not here when it was a hot news and mullah regime mouthpieces here were denying it and accusing us of being sectarian. Its when iran accepted it, suddenly all u disappeared n went silent lolz.
https://www.businessinsider.com/iranians-say-its-impossible-commercial-jet-was-hit-by-missile-2020-1

Ur official gives a statement and then u deny it. Did u arrest that official for lies?

https://www.polygraph.info/a/iran-ps752-missile-fact-check/30371408.html

Dor God sake have some shame.

You're trying to change subject now. Running desperate? I have already addressed this on other threads to you. How convenient that you're pretending to have forgotten.

 

[TNT]

1) The design of the frigate is done and it will have 96vls
2) There is zero reason, engineering wise why it is not feasible

I ask for proof and this is ur reply?

If they wanted to build a ship like this, they could. It's not a matter of capability but wanting to do it. Such as ship has its own downside (due to increased risk of explosions etc).

That's the only downside ur pea sized brain could comeup with? Amazing

1) We do not know the size of these Iranian VLS. Are they small? (most likely), medium?
2) What materials are they made of? Metal? Composite? (most likely)

So u dont know anything and yet u argue n defend it with all ur stupidity? Blind goat as i said.

Why do I need do that? I am saying this design by Iran is possible. the details of weight etc are not known to anyone except Iran. All that matters is Iran has officially stated it will have 96 VLS.

Yup u dont know and since iran officially said it, its 100℅ true. And u deny being a blind goat.

1) You made the claim it was not possible
2) You want me to help you prove it
3) That is a fallacy

Ur really a nut case, where did i say its not possible??? Do i need to teach u basic English? I said the iranian claim of it is BS.

My proof is there is no evidence that it cannot be done. Your proof for your claim is none-existance.

Omg so if something is not impossible that means this is a proof that u did it? Man i give up, i seriously hive up. Its really impossible to argue with an idiot.

What I have done is hilighted your inability to provide any form of backings for this claim this ship's design is not feasible and your rather weak and disappointing desperation to try shift the burden of proof on others. Lets not even mention your petty insults.

Hahaha after saying u dont know anything and yet defending it blindly and then u blame me for not providing any backings??? Seriously any insult is not enough for u. Infact i will salute u, i have never seen anyone mlre shameful and more experienced in idiocracy as u, i salute u man.
Have a nice day, i have wasted enough time with a dummy. You can say whatever u want, from now on ur on my ignore list. My time is too good to be wasted on utter brainless dummies.

 

[Philosopher]

I ask for proof and this is ur reply?

What else could be classed as proof? Do you have any engineering reason why it cannot be done? I am still waiting for you to show me.

That's the only downside ur pea sized brain could comeup with? Amazing

Your debate strategy is basically this : Spam Ad hominem .Try something new.

So u dont know anything and yet u argue n defend it with all ur stupidity? Blind goat as i said.

I was showing you why your example was irrelevant given you're trying to compare two systems, where you don't even know about the specification of one of them.

Yup u dont know and since iran officially said it, its 100℅ true. And u deny being a blind goat.

Iran has stated it and there is no engineering reason why it cannot be feasible.

Ur really a nut case, where did i say its not possible??? Do i need to teach u basic English? I said the iranian claim of it is BS.

Right, so now you're saying it is possible just you do not believe Iran can do it?

You're jumping from one stance to another. You're probably not even trying to understand why you're saying.

Omg so if something is not impossible that means this is a proof that u did it? Man i give up, i seriously hive up. Its really impossible to argue with an idiot.

If something is impossible, you can explain why it is so. You have done nothing of the sort to claim why it cannot be done as far as Iran is concerned.

Hahaha after saying u dont know anything and yet defending it blindly and then u blame me for not providing any backings???

If I went into a thread and I said a claim is not true, I would back it up. You made this claim here and instead are running away from trying to back your claims and try to shift the burden of proof on others.

Seriously any insult is not enough for u. Infact i will salute u, i have never seen anyone mlre shameful and more experienced in idiocracy as u, i salute u man.

Your insults only show your immaturity and desperation. You're fooling no one here.

Have a nice day, i have wasted enough time with a dummy. You can say whatever u want, from now on ur on my ignore list. My time is too good to be wasted on utter brainless dummies.

So in the end, minus throwing some insults you've basically in the end admitted:

1) It can be done
2) You cannot back your assertion that Iran cannot do it

You could have just admitted you were a troll and made this easier on yourself.

 

[TheImmortal]

This has to be the dumbest graphic I have ever seen.

A Ya Ali coming out of the same type VLS as a Bavar-373? They are two massively different size missiles. Some of these cruise missiles have wings that fold others don’t fold and launch by rail.

Not to mention Iran has never mentioned it produces Yakhont ASCM but suddenly the Iranian military will admit to it via a poster?

Smells like someone manipulated this photo.

I am not even going to pass judgment on the 96 cell topic, already skeptical.

 

[Hack-Hook]

This is 3000 ton USS Independence fully loaded. Have a look and fit me 96 VLS on front of this ship and i will throw away my engineering degree.

I don't ask you throw away your engineering degree as all of us can make mistake if we have to work with wrong data. and your mistake is beliving iran design will have the same configuration of the usa design. look at this picture of uss independence from another angle

now lok at iranian design

compare the helipad size on two design
USA approach have a much larger helipad so they had to move the control room and Radar mast to the front of the ship so they actually have smaller free space in front of the ship instead they have more free space back for helicopters so they can park several helicopter there .
in short they put control room and mast in front of the ship and a basketball court in back our design put vls launcher in front and control room and Radar mast somehow in posterior area of the ship. thats why we say it all come back to design you want more gun and launcher or you prefer more helicopter

For the sake of argument could the Iranian Trimaran just be outright designed structurally to accommodate 96 VLS cells, cutting back on other components and keeping the ship internally really simple thus freeing up space for those 96 cells? I guess what I'm asking is how much can one cut back on ship to make room for 96 VLS cells. Philosopher does bring up a crucial point. The Iranian made missiles meant to be housed in those cells could be of a substantially smaller size compared to other contemporaries. That size reduction coupled with the assumption that the Ship builders have designed the ship to have 96 VLS could provide some sort of explanation.

I say the following with full ignorance on such matters but think of the Iranian Trimaran sort of like the A-10 Warthog, but instead of a plane built around a gun it's a ship built around 96 VLS cells. Idk, just throwing out ideas at this point.

if the design cut on something it must be placed at the back of the ship , I wonder what is it there except engine and fuel supply ? and cant it be moved to pront side of the ship is I stated US design have larger posterior part but Iran's design have larger front part.

last catamaran ship Iran built used aluminum alloys for it, so if they use that particular material for this one too it's feasible.

I doubt they build a warship with that Alloy

 

[StormBreaker]

@HRK @aliyusuf
Brothers, where is Iran’s Military ShipBuilding standing right now ? Is it comparable to China and Others like Turkey or India ?
And is their industry better than ours in terms of production of systems to be used on ships ?

 

[HRK]

@HRK @aliyusuf
Brothers, where is Iran’s Military ShipBuilding standing right now ? Is it comparable to China and Others like Turkey or India ?
And is their industry better than ours in terms of production of systems to be used on ships ?

would not comment, you know why .... but they are certainly better in Ship Building then our almost non-existence Ship Building industry so they are doing what they can do in the given circumstance .....

In Muslim world Turkey is only country coming up as someone who is making deliberate efforts to develop comprehensive ship building capabilities and exhibited many success, China is in different league altogether and now rivals only to USA

 

[StormBreaker]

would not comment, you know why .... but they are certainly better in Ship Building then our almost non-existence Ship Building industry so they are doing what they can do in the given circumstance .....

In Muslim world Turkey is only country coming up as someone who is making deliberate efforts to develop comprehensive ship building capabilities and exhibited many success, China is in different league altogether and now rivals only to USA

I wish we launch joint projects Or licensed productions with Turkey Or China or both In Either KSEW or The new one being built at Gwadar

 

[Philosopher]

In Muslim world Turkey is only country coming up as someone who is making deliberate efforts to develop comprehensive ship building capabilities and exhibited many success

I don't want to take this thread off topic but I will just say this.

If you're talking about ship building specifically, then you're correct, Turkey as of now has made better ships than Iran. No surprise given they're free to import almost anything they need. However Iran's naval industry is growing quite nicely with new projects such as this Safineh and the 7000 ton destroyer being made. Furthermore, Iran has designed and made its own submarines, something I have yet to see Turkey do. Moreover, lets consider something else. Iran is working under almost total sanctions. When it makes a ship, it makes almost everything from engines to weapons of the ships itself, is that really the case for nations like Turkey etc?

And like you said, China is far ahead than others right now, minus the US.

 

[Mithridates]

I don't ask you throw away your engineering degree as all of us can make mistake if we have to work with wrong data. and your mistake is beliving iran design will have the same configuration of the usa design. look at this picture of uss independence from another angle

now lok at iranian design

compare the helipad size on two design
USA approach have a much larger helipad so they had to move the control room and Radar mast to the front of the ship so they actually have smaller free space in front of the ship instead they have more free space back for helicopters so they can park several helicopter there .
in short they put control room and mast in front of the ship and a basketball court in back our design put vls launcher in front and control room and Radar mast somehow in posterior area of the ship. thats why we say it all come back to design you want more gun and launcher or you prefer more helicopter


if the design cut on something it must be placed at the back of the ship , I wonder what is it there except engine and fuel supply ? and cant it be moved to pront side of the ship is I stated US design have larger posterior part but Iran's design have larger front part.


I doubt they build a warship with that Alloy

well this ship if built by steel would wight around 1100 tons but it's only 240 tons. if you mean that it's not strong i should say nowadays no one builds armored ships as missiles are main anti ship weapons compared to past which cannons were. also in the fact sheet i posted they stated that it's capable to sail in grade 6 waves which is the most powerful wave for a ship.

 

[Hack-Hook]

View attachment 606049
well this ship if built by steel would wight around 1100 tons but it's only 240 tons. if you mean that it's not strong i should say nowadays no one builds armored ships as missiles are main anti ship weapons compared to past which cannons were. also in the fact sheet i posted they stated that it's capable to sail in grade 6 waves which is the most powerful wave for a ship.

the problem is that a blast rip apart aluminium sheets like papers , if you want your ship be as strong as an airliner you'll bult it with Aluminium , if you want it to be a arship and have any chance of survival in battle field (getting hit by missiles, torpedoes or mines ) you'll build it by steel or Titanium .
look at this ship , you think how it would have faired if it was built by alluminium

and it only hit by a single exocet , you may not build armored ship anymore but it dont mean you build it with paper

 

[sahureka2]

or as the Russians do with the Admiral Gorshkov class frigates, steel hull , and superstructures in polymer-based composite materials