The mysterious J-19

[Akasa]

Since I don't want to open additional thread, a bit of info from peishens. Looks like a modified J-11 (J-16?) along the lines of F-15E, a UCAV and a 4th Gen will unveil this year.

601

No matter how hard they try, there's no way they can make a 5th-generation J-11. What you are seeing is probably the "Silent Flanker".

BTW, what's the name of the UCAV? The biggest projects in SAC in terms of UAV are the Darksword and the Combat Eagle.

 

[S10]

No matter how hard they try, there's no way they can make a 5th-generation J-11. What you are seeing is probably the "Silent Flanker".

BTW, what's the name of the UCAV? The biggest projects in SAC in terms of UAV are the Darksword and the Combat Eagle.

SAC has its own 4th Gen project seperate from the J-11 family, not silent flanker. It's clear that peishens stated there are 3 ongoing projects due be made public this year. From sopc_dsp himself, who I think also works for CAC.

"601的5代重型多用途隐身战斗机的进气道、先进边条、垂尾、平尾、都和F22不同。

具体几句话说不清楚 ...
sopc_dsp 发表于 2011-4-5 13:32"

 

[Akasa]

SAC has its own 4th Gen project seperate from the J-11 family, not silent flanker. It's clear that peishens stated there are 3 ongoing projects due be made public this year. From sopc_dsp himself, who I think also works for CAC.

"601的5代重型多用途隐身战斗机的进气道、先进边条、垂尾、平尾、都和F22不同。

具体几句话说不清楚 ...
sopc_dsp 发表于 2011-4-5 13:32"

What is it called?

And is the "Silent Flanker" part of the 3 projects?

 

[S10]

What is it called?

And is the "Silent Flanker" part of the 3 projects?

I don't know the designation for the 4/5th gen, my guess is as good as yours. There will be a spin-off from J-11 family to fill a similar role as the F-15E Strike Eagle, but we will see how it looks like this year.

 

[Akasa]

I don't know the designation for the 4/5th gen, my guess is as good as yours. There will be a spin-off from J-11 family to fill a similar role as the F-15E Strike Eagle, but we will see how it looks like this year.

So is the stealthy variant part of the project or not?

From what I've gathered, there are 3 major J-11B variants: J-16 (F-15K equivalent), a stealthy version (F-15SE equivalent), and a carrier-based fighter-bomber (called J-19).

Huitong also says that it's 611 that builds the other 5th-generation stealth fighter, not 601.

 

[S10]

So is the stealthy variant part of the project or not?

From what I've gathered, there are 3 major J-11B variants: J-16 (F-15K equivalent), a stealthy version (F-15SE equivalent), and a carrier-based fighter-bomber (called J-19).

Huitong also says that it's 611 that builds the other 5th-generation stealth fighter, not 601.

You keep bringing up "Silent Flanker", J-16 and J-19. These are all speculations at best. Peishens already made it quite clear. A variant of J-11 in lines of F-15E (NOT "SE") in which the designation has not yet been revealed, a UCAV and 4th Gen (NOT Silent Flanker).

No offence, Huitong couldn't shine peishens' boots on his best day when it comes to information. Both SAC and CAC have their own 4th gen project confirmed by pupu, lizyu, sopc_dsp and now peishens. The carrier variant of J-11 is the J-15, similar to Su-33. If you include the J-15, SAC has four projects under its belt, two of them from J-11 family.

Read his post. Hell he even posted pictures to make it simple.

F-15E: Modification of F-15C, with purpose shifted from air superiorty to multirole
X-47B: Low observable UCAV
F-22: Low observable 4th/5th Gen depending on the classification you're using.

 

[Akasa]

You keep bringing up "Silent Flanker", J-16 and J-19. These are all speculations at best. Peishens already made it quite clear. A variant of J-11 in lines of F-15E (NOT "SE") in which the designation has not yet been revealed, a UCAV and 4th Gen (NOT Silent Flanker).

No offence, Huitong couldn't shine peishens' boots on his best day when it comes to information. Both SAC and CAC have their own 4th gen project confirmed by pupu, lizyu, sopc_dsp and now peishens. The carrier variant of J-11 is the J-15, similar to Su-33. If you include the J-15, SAC has four projects under its belt, two of them from J-11 family.

Read his post. Hell he even posted pictures to make it simple.

F-15E: Modification of F-15C, with purpose shifted from air superiorty to multirole
X-47B: Low observable UCAV
F-22: Low observable 4th/5th Gen depending on the classification you're using.

He said that 3 projects will be made public by this year. This doesn't mean that there are only 3 projects ongoing. An ex-SAC employee even said that there are 3 stealthy J-11 projects in an article he published. With Huitong (which is not a bad source) and James Dunnigan (editor of Strategy Page) confirming this, the "Silent Flanker" is something that should be considered. A leaked design photo of the J-19 was published.

The speculation at this moment is that the J-16 (the F-15E/K equivalent) will be fielded alongside a stealthy variant.

It has been speculated that a single-engine 5th-generation fighter is under development at 611. Don't know about 601, though.

Here is J-19 design photo:

Here is James Dunnigan's article:
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/The-Mysterious-And-Much-Anticipated-J-19-3-20-2011.asp

 

[S10]

He said that 3 projects will be made public by this year. This doesn't mean that there are only 3 projects ongoing. An ex-SAC employee even said that there are 3 stealthy J-11 projects in an article he published. With Huitong (which is not a bad source) and James Dunnigan (editor of Strategy Page) confirming this, the "Silent Flanker" is something that should be considered. A leaked design photo of the J-19 was published.

The speculation at this moment is that the J-16 (the F-15E/K equivalent) will be fielded alongside a stealthy variant.

It has been speculated that a single-engine 5th-generation fighter is under development at 611. Don't know about 601, though.

Here is J-19 design photo:

Here is James Dunnigan's article:
The Mysterious And Much Anticipated J-19

The notion of "Silent Flanker" is folly when you have 4th gen project. No matter what modification you make, you cannot make a 3rd generation plane into a VLO design. You can put as much decoration on a dog as you like, it's still a dog. F-15SE has not been chosen by the United States and is merely an export model made by Boeing. Considering China has already started two separate 4th gen programs, "Silent Flanker" is completely unnecessary.

Who is the so called "SAC employee", and do post that information in peishens' thread. I would love to see how fast it gets ripped to shreds. Huitong and Dunnigan's information are guesstimates, nothing more. They should not be mentioned in the same sentence as the people I've listed.

A concept drawing is not an indication of anything other than a concept. Using it as some sort of fact for the supposed existance of "J-19" is ridiculous. I could draw one and call it J-99.

 

[S10]

Designation already used J-10, J-11, J-12, J-13, J-15, J-20

Available designation: J-14 (not likely to be used), J-16, J-17, J-18, J-19

Currently, SAC has the following projects in development that are absolutely confirmed.

J-11 Family: J-15 (Carrier variant, i.e. Su-33), J-1X(Designation unknown, multirole, i.e. F-15E)
4th Gen: J-?? (designation unknown)
UCAV: Designation unknown

Judging from the fact that Varyag is coming into service this year, it is logical to assume J-15 will finish its development soon. General He gave J-20's induction date as anywhere from 2018-2020. Since we know SAC is about one year behind CAC, why would SAC waste their resources creating a "Silent Flanker" when they already have a 4th Gen going? Second, if American military didn't get fooled by Boeing's Silent Eagle, you really think PLAAF would fall for it?

 

[Akasa]

The notion of "Silent Flanker" is folly when you have 4th gen project. No matter what modification you make, you cannot make a 3rd generation plane into a VLO design. You can put as much decoration on a dog as you like, it's still a dog. F-15SE has not been chosen by the United States and is merely an export model made by Boeing. Considering China has already started two separate 4th gen programs, "Silent Flanker" is completely unnecessary.

Who is the so called "SAC employee", and do post that information in peishens' thread. I would love to see how fast it gets ripped to shreds. Huitong and Dunnigan's information are guesstimates, nothing more. They should not be mentioned in the same sentence as the people I've listed.

A concept drawing is not an indication of anything other than a concept. Using it as some sort of fact for the supposed existance of "J-19" is ridiculous. I could draw one and call it J-99.

The "Silent Flanker" would be the supplement to the expensive 5th-generation fighters, and that is a key component to the air force. It's perfect since it's more advanced than most 4.5 generation fighters yet it is much cheaper than the 5th generation fighters. It is also easy to develop since it's based on the J-11B. You would have a smaller number of 5th-generation fighters while the "Silent Flankers" would be the mainstay.

It's the same reason why the PLAGF inducts the Type 96G as well as the Type 99 series.

Right now, in order to get the number of advanced fighters up to big numbers, the best option is a stealthy variant of an existing fighter.

I'll show you some of the pages from the article:
http://www.chnqiang.com/uploadfile/article/uploadfile/201002/20100204014
820525.jpg

The interesting thing that separates this "concept drawing" from other "concept drawings" is that this one's not made by a civilian.

 

[Akasa]

Designation already used J-10, J-11, J-12, J-13, J-15, J-20

Available designation: J-14 (not likely to be used), J-16, J-17, J-18, J-19

Currently, SAC has the following projects in development that are absolutely confirmed.

J-11 Family: J-15 (Carrier variant, i.e. Su-33), J-1X(Designation unknown, multirole, i.e. F-15E)
4th Gen: J-?? (designation unknown)
UCAV: Designation unknown

Judging from the fact that Varyag is coming into service this year, it is logical to assume J-15 will finish its development soon. General He gave J-20's induction date as anywhere from 2018-2020. Since we know SAC is about one year behind CAC, why would SAC waste their resources creating a "Silent Flanker" when they already have a 4th Gen going? Second, if American military didn't get fooled by Boeing's Silent Eagle, you really think PLAAF would fall for it?

"Silent Flanker" is not a waste of resources for them. It's an investment. Currently the PLAAF lacks aircraft that can fill the gap between 4/4.5 generation fighters and 5th generation fighters. In addition to the 5th generation fighters, the "Silent Flanker" would make up the hi-lo scheme for the PLAAF.

The American military didn't order the F-15SE because they already have 175 Raptors in service. Our J-20s won't be service until the next decade. Until then, who's gonna keep our talons sharp? The J-10 and J-11Bs? Don't kid me.

 

[S10]

The "Silent Flanker" would be the supplement to the expensive 5th-generation fighters, and that is a key component to the air force. It's perfect since it's more advanced than most 4.5 generation fighters yet it is much cheaper than the 5th generation fighters. It is also easy to develop since it's based on the J-11B. You would have a smaller number of 5th-generation fighters while the "Silent Flankers" would be the mainstay

It's the same reason why the PLAGF inducts the Type 96G as well as the Type 99 series.

Right now, in order to get the number of advanced fighters up to big numbers, the best option is a stealthy variant of an existing fighter.

It would be a completely waste of resources to create a Silent Flanker when you have two 4th Gen projects ongoing. SAC has limited funds and human resources, thus such fanboy projects are nothing more than wet dreams. Just last month pupu stated SAC did not want to modified the airframe of J-11 too much because they do not have the level of familiarity as Russians do, when comparing J-11B to Su-35. There is no such thing as "stealthy" 3rd gen. In order to modified J-11 into a low observable design, the amount of work needed is so great that it would be best to redesign from scratch.

The interesting thing that separates this "concept drawing" from other "concept drawings" is that this one's not made by a civilian.

Lizyu does not work for SAC and he writes magazines for a living. He's considered to be somewhat of an annoyance. For a guy that claimed J-20 copied F-22's nose, F-35's intake, Mig 1.44's rear and F-117's all moving tail, I would not take anything that guy say seriously.

 

[S10]

"Silent Flanker" is not a waste of resources for them. It's an investment. Currently the PLAAF lacks aircraft that can fill the gap between 4/4.5 generation fighters and 5th generation fighters. In addition to the 5th generation fighters, the "Silent Flanker" would make up the hi-lo scheme for the PLAAF.

The American military didn't order the F-15SE because they already have 175 Raptors in service. Our J-20s won't be service until the next decade. Until then, who's gonna keep our talons sharp? The J-10 and J-11Bs? Don't kid me.

Since J-20 and SAC's own design will likely be inducted around 2018-2020 period, there is a 7 to 9 year gap in between. In the next two years, J-10B, J-15 and a multirole variant of J-11 is coming into service. So, you are basically saying they would spend at least two years to redesign J-11 for the remaining 5 year period. I doubt they would put an enormous amount of resources into crafting a "Silent Flanker" design that cannot compete with true 4th Gen. "Silent Flanker" is like twin engine J-10, fantasies that got massive following from fanboys.

J-10 and J-11 family are more than enough to keep China's sky safe for the next decade, considering the competition.