The murder of history in Pakistan

[nair]

The irony is that Indians are always forthcoming to question,Pakistani version of history but never answer about theirs. India is one nation that feeds a screwed version of history to its citizens, most importantly how they present Pakistan's independence.

India has its citizens believe in a rather absurd notion, that Pakistan somehow was 'given' and not to forget that it was a 'mistake'. I am yet to meet 'one' Indian who accepts Pakistan's God given right to self determination. India also presents Pakistan as a product of communal animosity which is absurd,because Pakistan came into being as the result of a democratic process.

India also presents the absurd notion that 'Pakistan was part of India'....couldn't be any further from the truth. As a matter of fact 'India' what modern day Indians believe it to be 'never existed'. Before the Colonial period,it was divided into princely states which existed by paying "Khiraj" to the most powerful kingdom or dynasty, before that it was divided into multiple small or medium kingdoms who always fought each other for supremacy.

India is quick to hide the historical fact,that India has only existed as a large empire, which included Bangladesh,Pakistan and Afghanistan, under Ashoka and some periods of Moghal empire, and either of whom didn't last for more than a century and they were kept united under a sword. Internal feuds lead to its subsequent fragmentation once again.

India also hides from its citizens the fact that the real, reason for the partition of the sub continent was the Hindutva aspirations which lead Jinnah, once the champion of Hindu Muslim unity for 16 years, to leave the INC. India uses secularism as a veil to hide the fact that India is a Hindu state and the Hindu elite who now want to come out of the closet and wish to create a Hindutva state existed in early 1900s too.

All of Indian, symbolism is derived from Mahabharatha, ie weapon titles, the Indian flag has Ashoka chakara and he coat of Arms belongs to Ashoka. Suffice to say that, India is oblivious of providing any symbolic recognition to either the Muslims,Sikhs or Christians who also are its citizens and in large numbers.

As for the wars.

* 1948 was a stalemate
* 1965 was a stalemate
* 1971 was a defeat for Pakistan,being outnumbered 1-25. [Big deal]
* 1999 was a limited conflict with no territorial changes.

Indians are quick to claim triumf which depicts their sense of insecurity, even when they haven't scored an outright victory on their own. In 1971, a vast majority of E.Pakistani rebels were Bangali Mukhti Bahini, NOT Indians, they invaded when it suited them.


On the other side, Germans don't teach Nazi history. They had to go through a rigid de-nazification campaign, Australians/Canadians/Americans don't like to talk about the Aboriginals and Indians and what happened to them, Kiwis don't like to talk about the Mauri tribes and their historic treatment, Americans don't talk about Vietnam, bombing of Japan and the slaves. Everyone has something to hide, not just Pakistan.

End note: I'd like to see more recognition of Gandhara and Indus Valley heritage of Pakistan more than it is recognized today in Pakistan.

My dear friend..... You have pointed some valid points in your post..... but i never remember learning about any of the wars in my history books (through out my studies)... I have learnt about them later.....

 

[Bombaywalla]

In India, we were never taught about the various wars with neighbouring Pakistan. Not once. the only mention of the name Pakistan was in my class 10 textbook, and it went like so - "In the months leading up to independence, British India was divided into two states, India, and Pakistan".

 

[Rab Da Banda]

I normally find it easy to agree with @Aeronaut, as his views are clear and normally reasonable. This is not one of those occasions.



India has usually supplied a less-damaged narrative in the past. It is true that since the BJP first came to power, At that time, there was a determined effort to re-write history according to revisionist norms. When they were voted out, these re-writes were themselves re-written, back towards the older models.



There was no 'God-given' right to self-determination. There is nothing God-given about that right, and bringing God into the equation to justify it is hardly a sign of self-confidence. There is no doubt that mistakes made by an Indian party which believed that the identity of all Indians was one, and that religious differences could be addressed by addressing the self-proclaimed religious leadership of each community.

There was no democratic process either. The democratic process that was prevalent under British rule consisted only of elections, the right to access which was exercised by a restricted electorate. These elections gave the Muslim League a clear mandate - in the provinces of UP and Bombay. The mandate was to exercise the will of the Muslim segment of the population, to protect their religious practices and freedom to practise their religion peacefully. The Muslim League did make their proposal clear - a reserved homeland within a single state. Their option of a partitioned and disjointed Muslim majority nation certainly wasn't their primary intention, unless Jinnah was play-acting right through. It is difficult to believe that. Geographies picked for the homelands provided a lesson on their own. None of them had voted for the League.

More later.

Hi
In 1947 India must have been Part of Pakistan if Pakistan was not part of India. Thanks for correcting me. Rab Da Banda

 

[tarrar]

Wow! I am convinced! Which war did Pakistan win:1948,1965, 1971, or the Kargil one? Or are you talking about some future war?
I am Punjabi too! Possibly brainwashed by the British branding of some Punjabi groups as Martial Races, as I belong to one of those races (so called).
I do not know who won more bravery medals in above mentioned wars, as comparing Indian and Pakistani medals of honor in war may not be a valid comparison.But keep on believing in your own bravery and some one may,one day use you as cannon fodder too ( if you are young and daring enough!)!.
Pagal pan Zindabad!!!

1965 War was won by Pakistan, alright. It is you who is pagal & following those people who ignore Pakistan & Pakistan’s history.

And to add something to your knowledge, every war which was declared against Pakistan by India, India went running to UN so that they can beg UN to stop the war & India did this in all the 4 wars. 1948, 1965, 1971 & Kargil War.

1971 war happened because of betrayal by Bengalis.

Kargil War was won by none but Indian media is the only one who keeps saying they won the war.

I am pretty sure that you also don't know that the biggest tank battle in the history was fought between Pakistan & India, & Pakistan won that battle.

So there is no need to say BULL SH!T if you don’t know anything then don’t say it.

 

[tarrar]

Wow! I am convinced! Which war did Pakistan win:1948,1965, 1971, or the Kargil one? Or are you talking about some future war?
I am Punjabi too! Possibly brainwashed by the British branding of some Punjabi groups as Martial Races, as I belong to one of those races (so called).
I do not know who won more bravery medals in above mentioned wars, as comparing Indian and Pakistani medals of honor in war may not be a valid comparison.But keep on believing in your own bravery and some one may,one day use you as cannon fodder too ( if you are young and daring enough!)!.
Pagal pan Zindabad!!!

Listen to this & correct yourself & correct those who are taught wrong & teach wrong.

 

[Rab Da Banda]

1965 War was won by Pakistan, alright. It is you who is pagal & following those people who ignore Pakistan & Pakistan’s history.

And to add something to your knowledge, every war which was declared against Pakistan by India, India went running to UN so that they can beg UN to stop the war & India did this in all the 4 wars. 1948, 1965, 1971 & Kargil War.

1971 war happened because of betrayal by Bengalis.

Kargil War was won by none but Indian media is the only one who keeps saying they won the war.

I am pretty sure that you also don't know that the biggest tank battle in the history was fought between Pakistan & India, & Pakistan won that battle.

So there is no need to say BULL SH!T if you don’t know anything then don’t say it.

Hi Thanks
I must thank you for your civil tongue!When we say or write something the way we say it or write it says a
lot about us. So I am glad you gave me an idea of your intellectual level.
By the way what are your sources for making some pretty strong and one sided assertions ?
I was in South Asia and not too far from the border when war was fought in 1965. You can listen to your own propaganda or read some insightful books written by Pakistani generals about the results of wars between India and Pakistan. Also I saw pictures of dozens ( more than a hundred ? I could not count them all.) of tanks (in 1965) loaded on a freight train at Ludhiana train station. That convinces me that Pakistan won the tank battle that you are talking about. Thanks for your input. See you convinced me! Rab Da Banda

 

[RangerPK]

1965 War was won by Pakistan, alright. It is you who is pagal & following those people who ignore Pakistan & Pakistan’s history.

And to add something to your knowledge, every war which was declared against Pakistan by India, India went running to UN so that they can beg UN to stop the war & India did this in all the 4 wars. 1948, 1965, 1971 & Kargil War.

1971 war happened because of betrayal by Bengalis.

Kargil War was won by none but Indian media is the only one who keeps saying they won the war.

I am pretty sure that you also don't know that the biggest tank battle in the history was fought between Pakistan & India, & Pakistan won that battle.

So there is no need to say BULL SH!T if you don’t know anything then don’t say it.

Indians go crying to UN to stop the Pakistanis from waging war on them, and come to an agreement with Pakistan, but when the war stops, they go back on their word, break their agreement. They disrespect the verdict of the very institute they went to save their asses with. This is the psychology Indians.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Indians go crying to UN to stop the Pakistanis from waging war on them, and come to an agreement with Pakistan, but when the war stops, they go back on their word, break their agreement. They disrespect the verdict of the very institute they went to save their asses with. This is the psychology Indians.

lolzzz who went running to UN/tashkent to stop 1965 war

who went to beg USA to help save pakistan in 1971

who went running to washingnton on 4th July 1999

who went all owt to support USA against USSR and then again agaisnt taliban and afghanistan in name of WOT

now who is the biggest looser to whome all its so called "freinds not master" & "strategickk assets" have turned up agaisnt and facing daily/weekli Bomb Blasts/sectarian voilenece & drone drizzel

well sir this is the price you pay when your not statisfied with what you have and get adventorous to get more when you cant control your and keep own house in order and dream to "bleed dry your opponent thru 1000 cuts"

 

[HariPrasad]

The book is a great read.. and an eye opener for the sort of lies poured into Pakistani minds since the first dictatorship of Ayub Khan.
You need these lies to keep control over a populous, and make certain institutions seem "god-gifted" and untouchable.
Thankfully, that is all changing.. even from within these institutions as more educated people join its ranks.

If it is changing and lies are getting removed by none other than the people from inside than I would say that Pakistan has a great strength. Here actually lies the true strength of country. There is no strength like the strength of correcting own mistake. This is true for country as well as Individual. I foresee a very bright future of Pakistan.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

lolzzz who went running to UN/tashkent to stop 1965 war

who went to beg USA to help save pakistan in 1971

who went running to washingnton on 4th July 1999

who went all owt to support USA against USSR and then again agaisnt taliban and afghanistan in name of WOT

now who is the biggest looser to whome all its so called "freinds not master" & "strategickk assets" have turned up agaisnt and facing daily/weekli Bomb Blasts/sectarian voilenece & drone drizzel

well sir this is the price you pay when your not statisfied with what you have and get adventorous to get more when you cant control your and keep own house in order and dream to "bleed dry your opponent thru 1000 cuts"

India off-course you fool ! Didn't you read the Pakistani textbooks which are the subject matter of this thread's discussion ?????

 

[Rab Da Banda]

Listen to this & correct yourself & correct those who are taught wrong & teach wrong.

Hi
If you have enough time or inclination read this:
Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rab Da Banda

 

[Rab Da Banda]

Hi
Saw something of interest on YouTV:

Rab Da Banda

 

[Solomon2]

The book is a great read.. and an eye opener for the sort of lies poured into Pakistani minds since the first dictatorship of Ayub Khan.
You need these lies to keep control over a populous, and make certain institutions seem "god-gifted" and untouchable.
Thankfully, that is all changing.. even from within these institutions as more educated people join its ranks.

Can you cite some examples, please?

 

[SQ8]

Can you cite some examples, please?

Lies taught on the "victory" of the 65 war, the causes of the 71 revolt and war, zia's historical excesses.. and so on.

 

[Hellfire]

The irony is that Indians are always forthcoming to question,Pakistani version of history but never answer about theirs. India is one nation that feeds a screwed version of history to its citizens, most importantly how they present Pakistan's independence.

agreed but not with the last line

India has its citizens believe in a rather absurd notion, that Pakistan somehow was 'given' and not to forget that it was a 'mistake'. I am yet to meet 'one' Indian who accepts Pakistan's God given right to self determination. India also presents Pakistan as a product of communal animosity which is absurd,because Pakistan came into being as the result of a democratic process.

Pakistan did not have any given right let alone god given right to 'self determination'. And democratic process? When Jinnah wanted a separate homeland for muslims? where was the democracy? did a referendum take place? when? where?

India also presents the absurd notion that 'Pakistan was part of India'....couldn't be any further from the truth. As a matter of fact 'India' what modern day Indians believe it to be 'never existed'. Before the Colonial period,it was divided into princely states which existed by paying "Khiraj" to the most powerful kingdom or dynasty, before that it was divided into multiple small or medium kingdoms who always fought each other for supremacy.

by that logic there was a. no pakistan b. not a muslim inhabited area till the onset of Mughal invasion and c. you are rebutting your own statement about god given right et al

India is quick to hide the historical fact,that India has only existed as a large empire, which included Bangladesh,Pakistan and Afghanistan, under Ashoka and some periods of Moghal empire, and either of whom didn't last for more than a century and they were kept united under a sword. Internal feuds lead to its subsequent fragmentation once again.

yes. by force. then the question arises - accepting your logic here - shoyld FATA/Baluchistan/Gilgit be made new nations as you also have to use force to suppress uprisings there or are they fight for independence? Stick only to explaining in context to Pakistan .... and your own statements here!

India also hides from its citizens the fact that the real, reason for the partition of the sub continent was the Hindutva aspirations which lead Jinnah, once the champion of Hindu Muslim unity for 16 years, to leave the INC. India uses secularism as a veil to hide the fact that India is a Hindu state and the Hindu elite who now want to come out of the closet and wish to create a Hindutva state existed in early 1900s too.

Yeah right. Jinnah wanted to be PM of a united India and would have done a fine job at it. Gandhi wanted Nehru (and we all know what happened thanks to him). So Jinnah went the other way - political ambitions were more paramount than "Muslim nationhood to protect against Hindutva" and hindutuva? where is it? we really dont have patience nor time for that shit ... they are as rabid dogs as islamists - best kept under lock and key and if i had my way - slaughtered as in old days.

Please prove your insinuations that India is hindutva and anti-muslims .....!

All of Indian, symbolism is derived from Mahabharatha, ie weapon titles, the Indian flag has Ashoka chakara and he coat of Arms belongs to Ashoka. Suffice to say that, India is oblivious of providing any symbolic recognition to either the Muslims,Sikhs or Christians who also are its citizens and in large numbers.

and we have psychosis here - delusive disorders apparent - ok what of pakistan? your whole flag is islamist !!!!!!!!! LOL

As for the wars.

* 1948 was a stalemate
* 1965 was a stalemate
* 1971 was a defeat for Pakistan,being outnumbered 1-25. [Big deal]
* 1999 was a limited conflict with no territorial changes.

A war is an extension of foreign policy .... that is the correct definition of was. It is initiated by a side in order to attain set objectives!!!

1948 - after a standstill agreement signed by Pakistan with J&K where in the Maharaja was also tilting to a pro-Pakistan stance and was hoping to remain independent as a separate nation (which you guys claim you want for Kashmir and support them hence) - Tribals trained armed and led by PA invade the state ......!!!! and what did you achieve? some territory and creating the problem of J&K (thanks to nehru who went to UN hoping for a peace prize and was also delusive; incidently a Kashmiri pandit!!!) objective - to integrate J&K as till your invasion it was independent and not at all inclined to India; Result - territory divided objectives not achieved! War won? Nope. You lost it!!!!

1965 - Op Gibraltar - objective to cripple Indian airforce/disrupt lines of supply in akhnoor sector to Indian army in Kashmir and launch simutaneous attacks especially in chicken neck area. War resulted in 3 JAT reaching BATAPORE (suburb of Lahore twice) ... objectives achieved - none ... result of war you can see for yourself.

1971 - need not give your pathetic excuse of numerical superiority; war is to be fought after attaining an all round superiority in numbers/logistics/tech/armament. This is not a wrestling match. Objective of India in initiating the war (and I do say we initiated it by forcing you to clamp down on Bengalis) - to dismember Pakistan - objective achieved.

1999 - Limited war initiated by Pakistan. Objective - to occupy dominant heights in Drass/Kargil/Batalik/Gurez sectors in order to dominate the highway to Leh and deny reinforcements for Saltoro areas. Result - not achieved; instead India occupied additional heights/features not previously held by us. File a right to information and get the list from your army.

Indians are quick to claim triumf which depicts their sense of insecurity, even when they haven't scored an outright victory on their own. In 1971, a vast majority of E.Pakistani rebels were Bangali Mukhti Bahini, NOT Indians, they invaded when it suited them.

rebutted earlier. add the dots

On the other side, Germans don't teach Nazi history. They had to go through a rigid de-nazification campaign, Australians/Canadians/Americans don't like to talk about the Aboriginals and Indians and what happened to them, Kiwis don't like to talk about the Mauri tribes and their historic treatment, Americans don't talk about Vietnam, bombing of Japan and the slaves. Everyone has something to hide, not just Pakistan.

End note: I'd like to see more recognition of Gandhara and Indus Valley heritage of Pakistan more than it is recognized today in Pakistan.

You guys dont even recognise the fact that the area was aryan civilisation and that islam came with invasions of Timur et al. So you are not even the originals. So please do not try to act as if you have the GOD given right over anything ........ be thankful to almighty for he shudders when he thinks of his biggest mistake - the 'human'