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The Monkey Trap

karan.1970

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Being on vacation and surfing the net over last few days, I came across this old article (sometime in 2002). Before I put it down, just wanted to clarify that the Title is copied from the original article and there is no intended disrespect.

Since the article is about 8 years old, it will be interesting to evaluate if the last 8 years have shown the hypothesis in the article to be correct or not. Lets try and have a healthy debate on this if possible. Also some of the comments in the article are provocative(it seems to be written by an indian muslim so no surprises there) but lets ignore those and focus on the over all theme only

To the Mods, I was not able to find a similar thread and hence started a new one. If I missed an existing one, then my apologies and request you to merge it with that one


India's Response: The Monkey Trap
The way you catch a monkey is quite simple. What you do is put a large, heavy jar with a mango or banana in it out in the open. The jar has a very small neck. Soon enough, a monkey will come along and stick his hand inside to grab the fruit. When he tries to draw his hand out he can't. The hand with the fruit is too large for the neck of the jar. The monkey could easily let go of the bait and escape, but they never do. Even when he sees the catcher with his net, he'll jump up and down and squeal ferociously, but he won't let go of the fruit. He simply can't. It's quite beyond his power. No one knows why, but that's the way it is, and that's how they catch the monkey.

(Source: Indian children's fable.)

The Pakistani elite have long justified their terrorism in India as a low cost solution to "bleeding India dry". Somewhere amidst the grand visions of these strategic thinkers, the Pakistanis missed the rather prosaic fact that during the decade long terror war, India not only didn't "bleed white" but in fact did far better than it had ever done.

Pakistani spent the last decade of the Twentieth Century screeching the battle cry of Jehad, creating the Taliban, supporting Osama bin Laden and waging a war of terror on the people of India, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, the Central Asian states and even China. Meanwhile the elites attempted to loot everything in sight. India, on the other hand, quietly went about producing the fastest economic growth since Independence and, among other things, become a world power in software. Pakistan's strategic gambit in Kashmir failed spectacularly and brought Pakistan to the verge of state failure and being declared a terrorist state, it came astonishingly close to collective suicide during it's years of delusion.

We put forward the hypothesis that India, faced with the threat of a bankrupt, unstable and permanently recalcitrant neighbor which could soon join the list of failed states, and acting in the interests of it's own security, engaged the "monkey trap" as India's solution to the half century long Kashmir dispute and Pakistan problem. We do not however, provide any supporting evidence. The "trap" is a hypothesis, no more.

The essence of the monkey trap is its simplicity, which in turn is based on the limited strategic options available to Pakistan and the national character of its elite. Pakistan is caught in a self-destructive cycle with no way out, trapped between rhetoric and reality. It cannot abandon the anti-Indian crusade and Kashmir because too much has been invested into it and without the Indian enemy they have no identity and no method to maintain their rentier control of the Pakistani state. This fundamental basis of Pakistan can be understood within the context of the earlier section.

The monkey trap, in our opinion, was the only method available to India to engage and permanently destroy an unhinged enemy, and played almost perfectly to India's strengths and to Pakistani weaknesses. All that it is necessary for India to do is to stand firm, make no significant concessions, and quietly watch Pakistan's long slide into irrelevance, as it seeks ever more desperate ways to obtain that ever elusive "victory" over India.

It does not require the political or economic penalty that a major war would have, but its effect on Pakistan has been just as destructive. It allowed Pakistan's elites to flay away pointlessly at a controlled target, Kashmir, while the Indian economy continued to outgrow it's previous growth bounds. The strength of the trap lies in the fact that, given the character of the Pakistani state and its ruling elites, it requires India to do the absolute minimum for it's success. In fact, India has to do nothing more other than protect it's citizens and territory for the trap to work. It is a passive strategy and consequently fits in well with India's democracy. Furthermore, it is virtually impossible to tell a politician, do nothing, and you will triumph, and NOT expect them to overwhelmingly accept that as a "brilliant" Fabian like strategy.

India did, and the trap, in our opinion, worked.

It should be noted that, it is irrelevant whether the trap was deliberately set to bait Pakistan, or whether it evolved as India realized that Pakistan may have over-reached itself. It is also irrelevant if, as far as India is concerned, there is no "trap" at all. The end result is the same. Pakistan is irrevocably locked into an impossible endeavor and caught in a cycle it cannot withdraw from while it's society and nation rapidly slips into an abyss and India grows from strength to strength.

Pakistan could, of course, in principle let go the fruit and remove it's hand from the jar. However, just as the mythical monkey does not have the slightest idea why it's trapped, the structure of Pakistan's elite society precludes any such behavior. More over any such move would endanger their control of Pakistan, relinquishing the fruit cannot happen unless the Pakistani elite are collectively willing to let go of their control. Additionally, if this was possible, the elite would have done so long ago, but Pakistan's ideology comes into play, and to "let go” negates the very existence of Pakistan itself.

After 9-11: Enter the Gorilla
A strategy such as the Monkey Trap would obviously require an end game. 9-11 however, made all such calculations redundant. In this section, we shall argue that the essence of the trap has not in fact changed, but may have even greater benefits than before 9-11.

In order to understand the role of the trap in the post 9-11 world, it's necessary to understand that the US is well aware of Pakistan's links with Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaeda network, the Taliban and Pakistan's sponsorship of terrorism in Kashmir. The testimony of Vincent Cannistraro, the former CIA Chief of Counter terrorism Operations and Analysis, before the House Committee on International Relations and the work done by Yossef Bodansky, the former Director of the Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare of the U.S. Congress, makes this clear [26] , [27] .

The Pakistani government's links to these terrorists are now so well known, that even Pakistan's friends in the US have admitted, as the Brooking Institute's Stephen Cohen did recently, that if bin Laden were to be "found" by the Pakistani's, then;

... there will be a corpse of Osama bin Laden. That would solve the Pakistani problem. Somebody would get a reward. You don't want him talking and explaining exactly who he got his support from. Also the-you know, so I think his guards and people around him, especially the Afghans are-you know, he has more to fear from them [the Pakistani's] than, perhaps, from American bombing in the next few days. [28]

Since the 9-11 attacks, Pakistan seems to once again have become an American "ally". Our argument is that as far as Pakistan's status as a failed state and it's entanglement in the monkey trap is concerned, 9-11 changed nothing despite the rhetoric. This claim is quite easy to defend. Our fundamental argument is that nothing has changed because the rentier-elite and it's ideological framework, the Nazria-e-Pakistan is the fundamental source of all of Pakistan's problems and this elite is exactly where it was prior to 9-11, firmly in charge.

The elite is intelligent, nimble and amoral enough to take advantage of the US's blood loss on September 11 that Pakistan did so much to cause. We do not claim that "Pakistani's are stupid", or incapable of changing. We simply claim that the "system" in Pakistan does not allow them to make any more than cosmetic changes. This will not save Pakistan from becoming a failed state, just as Gorbachev’s “tinkering” with the Soviet system failed to save the Soviet Union. The only change that could make a permanent difference is if Pakistan abandons it's ideology and it's Kashmir claim. Neither can happen.

Therefore, we contend that 9-11 made no fundamental changes to the Pakistani elite, except for the vast amount of humiliation they had to bear as the US, after greasing them with the IMF, forced them to bend and receive whatever the US decided to insert into their body politic. Of course, this entry of the US, per se a 1000 pound gorilla, does change the dynamics in the subcontinent.

However, as the massive mobilization by the Indian Armed Forces showed, India's coercive ability within it's own backyard is enormous. The force displayed seemed to be designed to send multiple messages. On behalf of the US, the mobilization ensured that the Pakistani Army was forced to move to forward positions, putting the entire PA within the open persuasion range of the USAF's "daisy cutters". This gave Pakistan a certain level of incentive to co-operate with the US, and also ensured that the US's Special Forces do not trip over them along the Afghan borders as they try to "help".

On another level, the mobilization also sent a clear message by India to not only the Pakistanis, who are already aware of the "messages" the Indian Armed Forces are capable of sending, but more importantly, to the US and anyone else interested. The message said that if India was forced into war, it would do so on a scale and size that would alter the regional agenda towards Indian geo-political objectives instead of the American ones. This is not a trivial point, and was succinctly stated by Indian's former Prime Minister, V.P Singh, " If there is another war, we will not stop until our strategic aims are obtained."

It is here that Pakistani begging for US intervention to "force" India to make concessions preferably regarding Kashmir is nothing short of astonishing. It never seems to occur to Pakistani “strategists” and “intellectuals" that except for all out war, (in which the US would risk billions of dollars, thousands of casualties a depressed world economy and a potential nuclear exchange), there is no possible way for this to happen. Exactly why the US should opt for war against India on Pakistan's behalf is never clear. This lack of understanding of the real world is India's greatest weapon against Pakistan.

India is clearly not interested in war, not even against Pakistan. After all, why should India expend blood, sweat and treasure taking down Pakistan?. If the Americans want to do it, its perfectly fine from an Indian perspective. The US has accomplished more in Afghanistan, than India ever could. And there is every reason for India to ensure that the US finishes the job before getting distracted by Iraq. This leads, quite serendipitously to perhaps the most important role of the Monkey Trap; it's generalization.

Pakistan currently provides the most tempting fruit available for the neighborhood’s newest and largest primate. Pakistan, a nuclear armed "moderate" Islamic state, controlled or influenced by the US a la Egypt or Turkey, and a potential check on Indian, Iranian, Russian and Chinese influence in Central Asia is a tempting ally. It remains to be seen whether or not the Americans have realized that way madness lies. Perhaps, the Americans will be successful. On the other hand, a failing Pakistan is a clear and present danger to the US as it's nuclear weapons may fall into the hands of non-state actors. The temptation to act pre-emptively would be overwhelming.

Then the Monkey Trap would morph into the Gorilla Trap.

Either way, India stands to gain. As it would lock the US into doing precisely what India wants, to clean up the Pakistani mess at their own cost. All in all, India benefits whether America succeeds or fails.
 
The language though is strong at a few places, but that does not take anything away from the author's analysis and the commentry of the things to follow.

Pakistan then was already in a hole and still did not stop digging.... and now they have 26/11. Classic situation where action and inaction will both converge at the same axis......
 
Either way, India stands to gain. As it would lock the US into doing precisely what India wants, to clean up the Pakistani mess at their own cost. All in all, India benefits whether America succeeds or fails.

If America fails, taliban wins and America will keep "droning" them around with pak providing the bases for such. That would not sit well with the talibs...... Maybe pak does not see a future for talibs ..... just using them as a trump card to more influence in Afghanistan when they ultimately decide to join the mayor of kabul Mr.Karzai....

Classic situation where action and inaction will both converge at the same axis......

:)
 
Back to the topic. I stated in another thread that Pakistan by its actions actually helps India justify its ownership of Kashmir. To a large degree this thread actually elaborates on my view
 
Well Guess what the Monkey Trap is not working

Now I will tell you a bed time story, since we all like to tell stories

There is this story , once there was this farmer who owned lots of chickens, he was a very gullable fellow.



One day he was in the woods, as always he came across a lion cub. Very beautiful creature. The farmer was very enticed by its beauti , and he thought why not bring the lion cub home. The poor lion cub was just waiting for its mother to bring it food, it was just seperated by 20-30 meter from its home.

The gullable farmer , jumped in joy thinking he is the smartest man on the planet. He can show it to rest of the villigers and they can pay money to him to see the young cub. Unfortunately - for the farmer, at night time. The lioness came back - and tracked that the farmer had stolen her cub. The cub cried , for its mother but the farmer was too indulged in his dreams of owning a lion cub, he did not care consequences as he was too busy day dreaming

27da48e0b1160a765326c8e5f7ffa56c.jpg


He in his little mind thought he can name the cub as a member of his family and planned so much around what the cub will mean to him - forgeting that this was a wild animal that was stolen away from its mother. He even planned how this lion's cub would be a part of his family and how they would be inseprable

So at night time, when he was asleep the Lioness came by the farm , she used her big Paw to open and free the young lion cub , and then she ate all the chickens - and took some with it for other cubs in her den. Poor Farmer when he woke up he found that all of the revenue was gone, now he had nothing left to sell. And he understood his mistake of greed and cruelty. So he started to eat bananas , but that is a completely different story which you already told

Now:
Clearly this famous story can be related to India , becasue india is like the gullable farmer, who thinks just because he owns lots of chickens and has few extra dollars in his shed , he can go and steal other people's freedom and forcefully take what does not belong to it.

Referenc: Indian encounter with portuguese with Army to take land
by force

Referece: Post partition using the army to forcefully take Kashmir
when pakistan armed forces were not that strong


Now what the indian politicians do not realize is that by taking the lion's cub the indian seem destined to lose every thing not just Kashmir

a) It started other political freedom movement
b) It gave reason for Pakistan to seek Nuclear weapon which
mean instant end to life in whole region.
c) Also helped developed problems with China

So in essence , the Indian Leaders are both the farmer , and infact
to some extent also Monkeys (as discussed in earlier story) who do not understad when is a good time to let go of banana

Pakistan is like the lioness trying to unite with the cub , while the farmer could have taken care of the little cub , but only the lioness is better suited to raise a young lion cub to full health and into a full lion one day.

One could argue, well why did the lioness just not leave the young cub on its own , with the farmer , well its simple its rule of nature , only a lioness is close enough to the cub so only it can raise the young cub...

Poor farmer , he plannned so many things but due to his stupidity he not only lost the lion's cub but infact lost all the chickens

:coffee:

Moral of Story:
Don't take other people's stuff and call it your own
9lioness-playing-mara.jpg
 
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how about a little remixing to a classic bed story...

this time farmer devices some means to give the lioness some wounds in her body..the lioness is preoccupied with healing her own wounds. what will lioness do now...??



moral of the new remixed story--- think yourself.
 
There is also another story

How the Panda from great civilization got his grove back

5c0c12a9b6e450aaa04d98296f63d277.jpg



But that is another story for another time :azn:

apr29_2009a.jpg
 

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you know its fun to add some spices to golden oldies...bring it on ..
anyways good night..:smitten:
 
Well Guess what the Monkey Trap is not working

Now I will tell you a bed time story, since we all like to tell stories

There is this story , once there was this farmer who owned lots of chickens, he was a very gullable fellow.



One day he was in the woods, as always he came across a lion cub. Very beautiful creature. The farmer was very enticed by its beauti , and he thought why not bring the lion cub home. The poor lion cub was just waiting for its mother to bring it food, it was just seperated by 20-30 meter from its home.

The gullable farmer , jumped in joy thinking he is the smartest man on the planet. He can show it to rest of the villigers and they can pay money to him to see the young cub. Unfortunately - for the farmer, at night time. The lioness came back - and tracked that the farmer had stolen her cub. The cub cried , for its mother but the farmer was too indulged in his dreams of owning a lion cub, he did not care consequences as he was too busy day dreaming

dc689ff7a58bb473deb4897ab9dcce60.jpg


He in his little mind thought he can name the cub as a member of his family and planned so much around what the cub will mean to him - forgeting that this was a wild animal that was stolen away from its mother. He even planned how this lion's cub would be a part of his family and how they would be inseprable

So at night time, when he was asleep the Lioness came by the farm , she used her big Paw to open and free the young lion cub , and then she ate all the chickens - and took some with it for other cubs in her den. Poor Farmer when he woke up he found that all of the revenue was gone, now he had nothing left to sell. And he understood his mistake of greed and cruelty. So he started to eat bananas , but that is a completely different story which you already told

Now:
Clearly this famous story can be related to India , becasue india is like the gullable farmer, who thinks just because he owns lots of chickens and has few extra dollars in his shed , he can go and steal other people's freedom and forcefully take what does not belong to it.

Referenc: Indian encounter with portuguese with Army to take land
by force

Referece: Post partition using the army to forcefully take Kashmir
when pakistan armed forces were not that strong


Now what the indian politicians do not realize is that by taking the lion's cub the indian seem destined to lose every thing not just Kashmir

a) It started other political freedom movement
b) It gave reason for Pakistan to seek Nuclear weapon which
mean instant end to life in whole region.
c) Also helped developed problems with China

So in essence , the Indian Leaders are both the farmer , and infact
to some extent also Monkeys (as discussed in earlier story) who do not understad when is a good time to let go of banana

Pakistan is like the lioness trying to unite with the cub , while the farmer could have taken care of the little cub , but only the lioness is better suited to raise a young lion cub to full health and into a full lion one day.

One could argue, well why did the lioness just not leave the young cub on its own , with the farmer , well its simple its rule of nature , only a lioness is close enough to the cub so only it can raise the young cub...

Poor farmer , he plannned so many things but due to his stupidity he not only lost the lion's cub but infact lost all the chickens

:coffee:

Moral of Story:
Don't take other people's stuff and call it your own
9lioness-playing-mara.jpg

nice story (wouldnt have expected anything less from you sir). Does not however talk to facts and data on the ground.

Make the following changes and you are good
1. Lioness is a paranoid schizophrenic and has delusions about one of the farmer's chicken being its cub
2. Farmer has a gun and an electrified fence and if the lioness tries to force its way in, there will be yet another reduction in the number of animals left of that species (aka 1998)...
 
Speaking of monkeys, the author certainly seems to have the collective wet-dream of the Indians on this web forum down. It's got everything the average ignoramus would ever wish to consume; a false sense of moral superiority, a narrow look at "economic growth", exaggerated self-worth, misplaced blame, ill-conceived ideas of intelligence and self-worth and chunks of propaganda, all topped off with a hint of smugness and drizzled with a moronic insults. Serve it with a side of "turning a blind eye to your own past and present shortcomings" and you've got every Shiv-Sainik's favourite chocolate sundae.

Could expect nothing less from something that traces to "Bharat-Rakshak" as a source. But hey, I'd much rather be a monkey than a sewer r-a-t that infects and stinks up everything it touches.

One day he was in the woods, as always he came across a lion cub. Very beautiful creature. The farmer was very enticed by its beauti , and he thought why not bring the lion cub home. The poor lion cub was just waiting for its mother to bring it food, it was just seperated by 20-30 meter from its home.

The gullable farmer , jumped in joy thinking he is the smartest man on the planet. He can show it to rest of the villigers and they can pay money to him to see the young cub. Unfortunately - for the farmer, at night time. The lioness came back - and tracked that the farmer had stolen her cub. The cub cried , for its mother but the farmer was too indulged in his dreams of owning a lion cub, he did not care consequences as he was too busy day dreaming

He in his little mind thought he can name the cub as a member of his family and planned so much around what the cub will mean to him - forgeting that this was a wild animal that was stolen away from its mother. He even planned how this lion's cub would be a part of his family and how they would be inseprable

So at night time, when he was asleep the Lioness came by the farm , she used her big Paw to open and free the young lion cub , and then she ate all the chickens - and took some with it for other cubs in her den. Poor Farmer when he woke up he found that all of the revenue was gone, now he had nothing left to sell. And he understood his mistake of greed and cruelty. So he started to eat bananas , but that is a completely different story which you already told
Great story AZADPAKISTAN2009, really, the farmer should have known better. Unfortunately, he was too busy counting his eggs before they hatched and thought the lioness was a monkey. It could have been worse, the lioness could have eaten the farmer too, but it seems she wes good-natured and did the right thing. I bet the farmer came up with a story about how the lioness had planted the cub in his farm to eat the chicken, or that the cub was in fact a chicken itself. Poor farmer, he needs new spectacles (I bet he thinks he looks like Hulk Hogan when he looks in the mirror).
 
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good to make 'All is well' kinda story for Pakistani. Amir Khan says that it really helps.
 
"Referenc: Indian encounter with portuguese with Army to take land
by force

Referece: Post partition using the army to forcefully take Kashmir
when pakistan armed forces were not that strong"

Are you referring to Goa? So you think imperialism and colonization is correct?
 
Speaking of monkeys, the author certainly seems to have the collective wet-dream of the Indians on this web forum down. It's got everything the average ignoramus would ever wish to consume; a false sense of moral superiority, a narrow look at "economic growth", exaggerated self-worth, misplaced blame, ill-conceived ideas of intelligence and self-worth and chunks of propaganda, all topped off with a hint of smugness and drizzled with a moronic insults. Serve it with a side of "turning a blind eye to your own past and present shortcomings" and you've got every Shiv-Sainik's favourite chocolate sundae.

Could expect nothing less from something that traces to "Bharat-Rakshak" as a source. But hey, I'd much rather be a monkey than a sewer r-a-t that infects and stinks up everything it touches.


Great story AZADPAKISTAN2009, really, the farmer should have known better. Unfortunately, he was too busy counting his eggs before they hatched and thought the lioness was a monkey. It could have been worse, the lioness could have eaten the farmer too, but it seems she wes good-natured and did the right thing. I bet the farmer came up with a story about how the lioness had planted the cub in his farm to eat the chicken, or that the cub was in fact a chicken itself. Poor farmer, he needs new spectacles (I bet he thinks he looks like Hulk Hogan when he looks in the mirror).


Sir.. I just read your note discouraging personal attacks and derailing of discussions in another forum and then read this.. :azn:

I have written at the onset that the article is 8 years old and the purpose is to debate if any of the articles hypothesis have really come true. Basically look at it with the benefit of hindsight. Do remember that in 2002, Pakistan was probably growing as fast if not faster than India and there was no TTP. Also the relationship of India with the US / NATO was not what it is today
 
Hmmm..... This seems a little too accurate. Who ever wrote this knew what he was talking about(Nevertheless this was meant for Indian eyes) ignore the pun and value it , for this is what u call and Indian Analytic Prediction ..
I find it very strange that most of it has played out like stated; as im sure Pakistani intelligentsia must have come across this article ...... or did they think its never gonna happen? apparently they still do :confused:
 
Hmmm..... This seems a little too accurate. Who ever wrote this knew what he was talking about(Nevertheless this was meant for Indian eyes) ignore the pun and value it , for this is what u call and Indian Analytic Prediction ..
I find it very strange that most of it has played out like stated; as im sure Pakistani intelligentsia must have come across this article ...... or did they think its never gonna happen? apparently they still do :confused:

You know why?

Because nobody in this darn world knows Pakistanis better than do Indians. We know them better than they know themselves.
 
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