The Middle East needs a stronger Erdogan

[T-Rex]

For some reason only turkey knows this.



In europe you show your face. Not doing that is ignorance and you get arrested. Its that easy.

It's clear that you're ignorant as far as hijab and nikab are concerned. First learn the difference.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Having beard is definitely not imposing it on others, it's twisting the truth to hide the persecution. Arresting people for wearing hijab is same as arresting people for their belief.

Reported for derailing

 

[xenon54 out]

A fact like that Gulen nonsense evry secret Service says doesnt exist?

This is not a nonsense and i dont remember any secret service denying their existance, it was just the German BND saying they werent behind the coup for obvious reasons.
Other than that FBI investigated their organisation in the past for various crimes in the US.

 

[xenon54 out]

Italian Secret service also said coup was done by AKP itself and staged. CIA says same. Turkey could not provide any evidence to blame them.

You know what i think the issue is? Turkey (or better its current regime) lives in its alternative reality. Turkey believes it can press our officials a list on the hand and police in rome starts a crackdown and delivers people. It doesnt work like that.

I want sources, i can also say the sun is purple.
Besides that CIA is gonna say they got no evindeces is clear as daylight, what else did you expect?

 

[xenon54 out]

Turkey wasnt able to promote any credible evidence for our security service. Our foreign minister said turkey only handed a list with names and expected Italy would trust them enough to base arrests on that. AFAIk Germany, Netherlands, France and Sweden also just got such lists and did not react as well.

I believe its clear, that Turkey has no support from any european country regarding that. And USA are on the same line as Europe.

In the end the problem is way deeper. We dont understand each other. I honestly dont know how we can build up a functional relationship between Europe and Turkey. I believe the victims are the Turks in Europe.

It is clear Turkey wont have any support from west regarding this, it would be pretty naive to expect Europe acting against US by handing over Gülenists.

One think is certain, the head of this organisation is residing in the US, he is controlling a organisazion that has infiltrated state organs, it comes very handy for the US to team up with such a person, its not like CIA doesnt have a history of toppling goverments.

This has already happened in the past, even in Turkey, you dont need to be a conspiracy theorist to evaluate such a possibility.


Covert United States involvement in regime change

1949 Syrian coup d'état
1949–1953 Albania
1951–56 Tibet
1953 Iranian coup d'état
1954 Guatemalan coup d'état
1956–57 Syria crisis
1960 Congo coup d'état
1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion
1961 Dominican Republic
1963 South Vietnamese coup
1964 Bolivian coup d'état
1964 Brazilian coup d'état
1966 Ghana coup d'état
1971 Bolivian coup d'état
1970–73 Chile
1980 Turkish coup d'état
1979–89 Afghanistan, Operation Cyclone
1981–87 Nicaragua, Contras
1996 Iraq coup attempt
2001 Afghanistan
2011 Libyan civil war
2011–present Syria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_United_States#Covert_actions

_______________________________________________________________________________


1980 Turkish coup d'état

The American support of this coup was acknowledged by the CIA Ankara station chief Paul Henze. After the government was overthrown, Henze cabled Washington, saying, "our boys [in Ankara] did it."[32] Henze denied American involvement in the coup during a June 2003 interview on CNN Türk's Manşet, but two days later Birand presented an interview with Henze recorded in 1997 which confirmed Mehmet Ali Birand's account.[33][34] The US State Department itself announced the coup during the night between 11 and 12 September: the military had phoned the US embassy in Ankara to alert them of the coup an hour in advance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d'état#American_involvement

 

[xenon54 out]

Well, we believe the coup was staged from turkey itself. Thats the official position from EU, as EU commission said its not believeable why turkey had name lists with thousands of names just next day.

Those names have been known for a couple years now, its clear AKP knows exactly with whom they are dealing with since they worked together for years.
The coup happened shortly before Supreme Military Council meeting where many gülenist generals were to be dismissed from military, i.e. the names were known beforehand, thats why they rushed with coup.

You assume a lot without having background knowledge.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Erdogan may not be ideal but he's still better then that Gulen fellow who runs a secretive cult like organisation from another country. Gulen is to Turkey what Osama was to USA.

 

[damm1t]

Our secret service says the coup was staged. And so does the EU commission. Sorry i trust our institutions more than a demented oriental mini-despot.

No offence but fvck your useless secret service... You keep saying no evidence but Turkey already sent 4 different files at the end days of Obama era but he naturally made it slow, now Trump administration will be forced under new presidential system in Turkey. You have a very solid skull, you are not open to bitter facts.

PS: It's already confessed by many gulenists who joined the coup.
PS2: Secret messages under secret line have beed decoded.
PS3 : That's just what leaked to public, it's still an ongoing investigation.

 

[mustafa erkan]

Really from where you get your information?
or do you know the evidences against them?
You dont know Turkish right? But may be you know. You can read about the evidences just Google it.
If you dont know Turkish , you only has limited information about this terrorists.

 

[Luffy 500]

The dangers of monarchy far outweigh the benefits of it. For example in a democracy if the ruler is tyrannical people can simply vote him out but in an absolute monarchy there's no way out in a lifetime. Even when the heir takes over usually he follows his father's footsteps. Apart from that, corruption is inherent in absolute monarchy like it is in ME because the entire state is considered as the private property of the monarch.

In today's world of nation states, Muslims lands that do NOT have a historical monarchy enjoying popular consent must have elected governments within a constitutional framework. Eg- Turkey, PAK, Malaysia, Indoneshia etc. However Muslim lands that do have stable monarchies like KSA, Qatar, Kuwait does dot necessarily have to be democracies or opt for elected goverments. If their people and society want that let them do it at their own pace.Islam is NOT necessarily against monarchy as long as the monarch/ruler does NOT force Muslims to go against islam. The Golden rule is ruler must abide by Islam and NOT oppose it. Constitutional monarchy like malaysia is also NOT a bad thing per se. What's important is rule of law, justice, fair distribution of wealth, development, state respecting Islamic values and norms and acknowledging that Islam has a supreme role in public space.

NOTE - Bro note how I used the term elected instead of "democracy". That's because the concept of democracy is not in line with Islam and if you go to the essence of it, you would see that most western countries are NOT democracies but secular constitutional states. Democracy is NOT just elections but carry lots of anti-islamic western ideological beliefs such as liberalism, secularism, gender equality, freedom of expression, freedom to cause anarchy etc. I fully support the concept of elections and electing leaders by free and fair elections within a constitution rooted in the values and beliefs of the majority and society. BUT i absolutely abhor the concept of democracy. So out of my deeply held views regarding such matters I prefer to avoid the term democracy and use the word electrocracy instead.


Regarding your objections about monarchy, No I humbly disagree. Democracies also can be very very corrupt look at PAK, India etc. Democracies also have dynastic features like hereditary transfer of powerseg- Canada, India, PAK, USA etc etc. Its in the nature of how things always worked in human society. Remember bush - the Bush family is one of the prominent political dynasties in USA and so are the clintons and kennedeys. In Canada you justin trudeau who rode to PM ship on his father's fame who was a strong former canadian PM.

 

[damm1t]

Lol. You think Turkey can force anyone to follow its paranoia? If Erdo gets too annoying he gets removed and thats it. Trump thinks very little about Turkey.

As i said, our secret service says turkey is not credible. We give turkish diplomats and military staff asylum and do not intend to cooperate with this idiocy. And as far as i know all european countries handle it like that.

Honestly dont you get tired that evry single nation you hand over your "proves" laughs and dismiss it? Your officials are so paranoid they act idiotic. Hand over lists and the only effect is, that turkish security staff is publically named and arrested and the people on the list warned.

Dont you feel dishonored when you come screaming and anyone just laughs?

YES won the referandum. Be quiet and watch what's gonna happen

 

[damm1t]

Now PLEASE introduce death penalty.

That's what I want too

 

[ValerioAurelius]

That's what I want too

Me too. Because it automatically ends the EU agreements and the payments worth 4 billion € per year.

Giving the fact that the referendum had almost 50% no votes its also a perfect time to stir up internal trouble there.

As Salvini (leader of Lega Nord) said: We must do evrything in our power to alienate Turkey from Europe.

 

[T-Rex]

Reported for derailing

What goes around comes around! You got reported too!

Me too. Because it automatically ends the EU agreements and the payments worth 4 billion € per year.

Giving the fact that the referendum had almost 50% no votes its also a perfect time to stir up internal trouble there.

As Salvini (leader of Lega Nord) said: We must do evrything in our power to alienate Turkey from Europe.

So, you don't see any difference between 48 and 52!

 

[Fledgingwings]

Middle east needs leaders who can shut up western (including russain/chinese/whatever) nose-poking and provide environments where society can grow and develop islamically and where Islam's role in society is respected and acknowledged. It can be a monarchy or elected PM/president does NOT matter. Otherwise people will feel oppressed and rebel and foreign powers will take advantage.

As Far As I remember Zulfiqar Bhutto,Qaddafi,King Faisal. this trio put an effort together to Form a strong muslims Empowerment plateform Known as OIC but they were screwed by west one after another and after that air from the baloon of OIC was all out.Now I see a few men worth considering for a Role like this but The ones who made those three disappear wont let this happen easily.