The Indian Rafale: Why Pakistan Should Celebrate! -Opinion (ALL Rafale posts here please)

[randomradio]

you are getting confused and ignoring the finer details in b/w the lines. France is not going to share the integration process with you guys. Second, they are integrating it for the whole fleet which is 36 Rafael only. This integration cost is only tied up to this deal.

So the next batch would be treated as a separate deal which means separate cost of integration. So without India knowing how to integrate India specific customization onto next batch, how come this cost becomes one time payment ?

If it is not specifically mentioned in the deal that same things negotiated in this deal will be extended to next deal , dont assume it will be done free of cost for the next batch of rafaels Dassault wants to earn money, They are not in the business of giving freebies

Integration costs are one time payment. They don't apply in future deals. Please check what integration means.

 

[Trichy]

India will get the first Rafale in three years, with all 36 touching down by early-2022. Till then, in the event of a conflict, India will have to deploy two Sukhoi-30MKIs to tackle each Pakistani F-16 due to the latter's superior weapons package, including 80-km range missiles. But once the Rafales are inducted, Pakistan will have to deploy two F-16s for each of them.

what is this comedy? reporter and editor have great knowledge about Fighter aircraft's.

 

[Bratva]

Integration costs are one time payment. They don't apply in future deals. Please check what integration means.

I'm going outside, So i will reply to your previous post which is again based on so many conjectures and inferring meanings from hopeful statements.

Regarding this post. I fully know what integration means. Tell me, Wil France share the software codes or source codes of Rafael and teach indians how to modify them so they can integrate things of their own choice in next batch of 36 ? If not then Yes India has to pay again and again to french if new deal for next 36 Rafaels are going to be negotiated.

 

[Centurion2016]

Indian combat types are falling in future

Migs are nearly all.gone hence the squadrons in iaf are have fallen to 27 and will.not rise much beyond this in future.

India has just one main combat type in future ie 280 flankets or 15 squadrons .

The remaining will be mix bag of tejas rafale mirage2000..

Everything will be gone by fifth gen arrives in ten years

 

[Skull and Bones]

Both are beautiful aircrafts.

 

[randomradio]

Regarding this post. I fully know what integration means. Tell me, Wil France share the software codes or source codes of Rafael and teach indians how to modify them so they can integrate things of their own choice ?

Oh, yes. This is basic ToT.

If not then Yes India has to pay again and again to french if new deal for next 36 Rafaels are going to be negotiated.

Incorrect. Once something is integrated, there is no additional cost to integration.

I'm talking about all the extensive tests you need to perform before a piece of tech is integrated with an aircraft. I think you are referring to integration of equipment during production, but that's already part of the unit costs.

The 2B cost is for development testing for first time integration of new technologies. For example, the Israeli HMD has to be integrated with the radar and other avionics, and then flight tested in all flight regimes and tested with different weapons. All of this is a one time payment that's covered in the 2B.

 

[zebra7]

Read up Parikrama post above, The follow up order and all the clauses of current deal will remain almost constant to next 18 supplementary fighters only. Beyond that, you have to go through the hellish cycle of negotiations once again with new set of prices. New set of prices mean making Future indian government of that time squeamish again.

What is your point sir, you have been jumping from one point to another.

1. First you was hall bent to prove that Rafale is way too costly
2 You arguing its only 36 birds
3 Now you are arguing that for follow order you need again long time negotiation and deal finalizing. I had made it clear, that once you made a deal, for follow order, the deal cost plus the inflation rate or the cost is included in the future plus any new upgrade etc. So what you wanna prove or arguing now.

 

[Taygibay]

Rafael orders are coming in small batches, Cost of production will not go down because Dassault has to maintain the break-even and with the re-investment of money back into India, How Dassault is going to profit from this overall if they are going to sell you the next batch in less price than this deal ?

I think we should ask the French person then

@Taygibay

OK. I made a full and final explain of the Rafale output on the main RafIndia thread.
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.230070/page-374#post-8722579

But the idea is, Bratva, that your "batches" just doesn't apply.
The line capacity is 3 ACs / month. The rate was at 1 per month
hitherto due to that being the lower limit by contract State/Dassault.
That is the breakeven level you talked about ... with some margins.
The trick is to balance output augmentation and its caveats versus
production slots.

Egypt gets its birds first and offloads France's ledger as our govt wished in 2014.
Qatar gets its birds at the same new format we will and later, in ordained fashion.
France skips many slots but begins new inceptions with F3-R, skipping a few F3s
that would have required a light upgrade if bought now.
India gets the results of the increase that was planned and ready to be implemented.
Between this year and the next, output will actually diminish as the line is overhauled
with all planes produced going to Egypt save a couple to la Royale, the French MN.
In 2018, the Mérignac line will begin operating at 2 planes per months or 22 per year
if one remembers our mandatory annual vacation month. The Rafale's Year, Trappier dixit.

Specifically, financial gains will come through the follow-up orders which you doubt.
Again, the Dassault CEO said as much. He singled out duality between civilian and
military activities as a key to success in that meaning that Dassault will reproduce
its French model over in India signalling long-term vision about its presence.

And why does one outsource at all if not to bring the price down?
Q.E.D.

Egypt has not received all yet in 4 yrs

LOL The deal was signed on Feb. 16th 2015 !

Have fun gang, Tay.

 

[eddie01]

finally rafale is coming.. jai hind

 

[zebra7]

OK. I made a full and final explain of the Rafale output on the main RafIndia thread.

But the idea is, Bratva, that your "batches just doesn't apply.
The line capacity is 3 ACs / month. The rate was at 1 per month
hitherto due to that being the lower limit by contract State/Dassault.
That is the breakeven level you talked about ... with some margins.
The trick is to balance output augmentation and its caveats versus
production slots.

Egypt gets its birds first and offload France's ledger as our govt wished in 2014.
Qatar gets its birds at the same new format we will and later in ordained fashion.
France skips many slots but begins new inceptions with F3-R, skipping a few F3s
that would have required a light upgrade if bought now.
India gets the results of the increase that was planned and ready to be implemented.
Between this year and the next, output will actually diminish as the line is overhauled
with all planes produced going to Egypt save a couple to la Royale, the French MN.
In 2018, the Mérignac line will begin operating at 2 planes per months or 22 per year
if one remembers our mandatory annual vacation month. The Rafale's Year, Trappier dixit.

Specifically, financial gains will come through the follow-up orders which you doubt.
Again, the Dassault CEO said as much. He singled out duality between civilian and
military activities as a key to success in that meaning that Dassault will reproduce
its French model over in India signalling long-term vision about its presence.

And why does one outsource at all if not to bring the price down?
Q.E.D.



LOL The deal was signed on Feb. 16th 2015 !

Have fun gang, Tay.

Thanks for your input Sir.

 

[Taygibay]

YVW, mate! Tay.

 

[thepakistani]

Rafale is a good multirole fighter but not a superiority fighter.
it's max ceiling is 50,000 feet and 1.8 mac which are the nighmare to compete a superiority fighter. with very very hafty price.

PAF has most proven multirole fighter f16 supported with stringless daily improving JF17.

Now PAF needs a superiority fighter. Su 35/37 fits excellently. and its most agile fighter in the world which is causing a real headach to F35 etc. Many articles indicates the challenges su 35 producing for west. max 2.25 mac 60,000 feet ceiling. good avionics infra red long range bvr etc. Except F22 raptor no other F15 F18 eurofighter can face su 35 as superiority fighter.


We should go for it with full zeel.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

what is this comedy? reporter and editor have great knowledge about Fighter aircraft's.

1 F-16 = 2 SU-30
1 Rafale = 2 F-16

 

[amardeep mishra]

1 F-16 = 2 SU-30
1 Rafale = 2 F-16

Nothing better can be expected out of our indian media

 

[nair]

Nothing better can be expected out of our indian media

I thought the article was posted in "The Nation" .... (credit has been given to Toi though)