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The incredibly bloody Safavid conversion of Iran to Shia Islam

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I once meet a Turkish dude who said the the moon is also Turkish, So Turkish Flag has the Moon. Since then I have never trusted what you people said, and when I came to internet, you went blatantly lying. Turkish is NOT Necessarily TURKIC. Just like Israeli not really native semites, You might have 10% turk blood 500 years ago, today, I dont know.

PERSIAN is NOT Necessarily IRANIC . Just like Israeli not really native semites, You might have 10% persian blood 5000 years ago, today, I dont know.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Iranian Y-DNA/default.aspx?section=ycolorized


about Persians claim to be whites!! and aryans!!:
it all begun by Pahlavi regime’s propaganda, you should know that the country iran is consisted of two main ethnic groups, brown- Semitic Persians and semi white Azeri and other Turkic people, now until about 100 years ago it was those Turkic people who were ruling the country and everything was fine with it, but as soon as Persians took control things got changed, Persians tried to assimilate Turkic people with all means possible, and then someone appeared around in the world called “Hitler” and declared that al none Aryan people are best and such, thus Pahlavi begun a new program, since only white people in Iran could be found among those Turkic ones they made a plan to assimilate Iranian Azeris and use them as pure white Aryan Persians! they begun a very vast propaganda, bribed many historians and made a fake history for ancient Persian, (while all Greek references have described Persians as the other way!!).

Pahlavi had many goals by those devises:

1- assimilate Iranian Turks and thus block any separation leanings.

2- buy a better international position for Persians.

3- Compensate the historical obsession of Persian people who were ruled by non persians for almost 14 centuries.

4- Make Persians to hate Arabs and Islam as the personal wish of Pahlavi king was such.

the pressure on Azeris went so high that about 65 years ago they begun an armed movement to separate, but Pahlavi tanks invaded Tabriz and killed many people, from that day Azeris say that Iran has occupied the southern Azerbaijan.

by the way, the name Iran itself is an innovation of Pahlavi regime, they use this name and say it means the land of aryans hence we are aryans! even now persians use documents of iranian Azeris to prove themselves as whites and aryans! even now Azeris are not allowed to teach their own language in their schools.

————————

they say such nonsenses like if they are indo Europeans and Arabs are not white like them and such, while Persians are very brown, they look like a mixture between Arabs and Dravidians, the whitest persian could be an arab! i swear most of the arabs are whiter than any persians, but remember that about 40% of iran’s population are of turkic descends. some of them are really white but the majority just have some white traits.


Just look at what remains of ancient Persia’s cornics and stone shapes, do those people drawed on stones look any kind of white people? Hell no!!
Beside, Ancient Persians were using Ilamits scripts and according to a recent genetic study shown in BBC TV Persians are direct descendant of Ilamits
 
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PERSIAN is NOT Necessarily IRANIC . Just like Israeli not really native semites, You might have 10% persian blood 5000 years ago, today, I dont know.

Its the other way around. Iranic = not necessarily Persian, but Persian = Iranic.

about Persians claim to be whites!! and aryans!!:
it all begun by Pahlavi regime’s propaganda, you should know that the country iran is consisted of two main ethnic groups, brown- Semitic Persians and semi white Azeri and other Turkic people

This is partially correct. But the country is consisted of close to 40 ethnic groups, not two! But there is no propaganda, you are contradicting yourself. Mohammad Reza Shah (Irans first Persian ruler, after thousand + years of Turk rule) asked for the international community to recognise this land as Iran, and not Persia! Why would he do that if he claimed Persians to be a superior race? He changed it to Iran to include, and unite all minorities, including the Azeris.

Pahlavi had many goals by those devises:

1- assimilate Iranian Turks and thus block any separation leanings.

2- buy a better international position for Persians.

3- Compensate the historical obsession of Persian people who were ruled by non persians for almost 14 centuries.

4- Make Persians to hate Arabs and Islam as the personal wish of Pahlavi king was such.

I find this laughable. Do you have any proof to back your theories?

the pressure on Azeris went so high that about 65 years ago they begun an armed movement to separate, but Pahlavi tanks invaded Tabriz and killed many people, from that day Azeris say that Iran has occupied the southern Azerbaijan.

Again, this is completely bull. There has always, and will always be separatist in any country. Whether they are of religious reasons, cultural reasons, political or whatever other reasons.

Anyway, what you are talking about didn't even happen during the Pahlavi era, why do you have to lie and say Pahlavi tanks invaded Tabriz and killed many people? I hate people like you, always creating and spreading lies!

What you are talking about happened during the constitutional revolution that took place from 1905 to 1911, during Qajar era, which was a Turk dynasty!! WTF does that have to do with Aryan Persian super race racism against Azeris?

Furthermore the Separatist was crushed by, guess who; No other than Irans Azeri National Heroes.... Sattar Khan and Baqer Khan which were honoured by the titles of Sardar e Melli (The Nations Commander) and Salar e Melli (The Nations General or something like that)

Iranians have lived in Iran at peace for thousands of years. Iran belongs to any Iranian. Whether he is Persian, Turk, Arab, Kurd or whatever.

Now don't even let me get started on Turkey and your fake history

I just had to add: Turks have ruled Iran for thousands of years, most recently until 1925. Do you honestly believe yourself when yo claim that Irans Turk population is oppressed or something? If Turks of Iran unite, we can separate whenever we wish and there is nothing anyone in Iran can do about it. But we don't want that, because, as I mentioned. Iran belongs to any Iranian, whether he is a Turk, Persian etc.

Oh, and BTW. Irans Supreme Leader. Khamenei. Is also Azeri
 
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PERSIAN is NOT Necessarily IRANIC . Just like Israeli not really native semites, You might have 10% persian blood 5000 years ago, today, I dont know.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Iranian Y-DNA/default.aspx?section=ycolorized


about Persians claim to be whites!! and aryans!!:
it all begun by Pahlavi regime’s propaganda, you should know that the country iran is consisted of two main ethnic groups, brown- Semitic Persians and semi white Azeri and other Turkic people, now until about 100 years ago it was those Turkic people who were ruling the country and everything was fine with it, but as soon as Persians took control things got changed, Persians tried to assimilate Turkic people with all means possible, and then someone appeared around in the world called “Hitler” and declared that al none Aryan people are best and such, thus Pahlavi begun a new program, since only white people in Iran could be found among those Turkic ones they made a plan to assimilate Iranian Azeris and use them as pure white Aryan Persians! they begun a very vast propaganda, bribed many historians and made a fake history for ancient Persian, (while all Greek references have described Persians as the other way!!).

Pahlavi had many goals by those devises:

1- assimilate Iranian Turks and thus block any separation leanings.

2- buy a better international position for Persians.

3- Compensate the historical obsession of Persian people who were ruled by non persians for almost 14 centuries.

4- Make Persians to hate Arabs and Islam as the personal wish of Pahlavi king was such.

the pressure on Azeris went so high that about 65 years ago they begun an armed movement to separate, but Pahlavi tanks invaded Tabriz and killed many people, from that day Azeris say that Iran has occupied the southern Azerbaijan.

by the way, the name Iran itself is an innovation of Pahlavi regime, they use this name and say it means the land of aryans hence we are aryans! even now persians use documents of iranian Azeris to prove themselves as whites and aryans! even now Azeris are not allowed to teach their own language in their schools.

————————

they say such nonsenses like if they are indo Europeans and Arabs are not white like them and such, while Persians are very brown, they look like a mixture between Arabs and Dravidians, the whitest persian could be an arab! i swear most of the arabs are whiter than any persians, but remember that about 40% of iran’s population are of turkic descends. some of them are really white but the majority just have some white traits.


Just look at what remains of ancient Persia’s cornics and stone shapes, do those people drawed on stones look any kind of white people? Hell no!!
Beside, Ancient Persians were using Ilamits scripts and according to a recent genetic study shown in BBC TV Persians are direct descendant of Ilamits
dude, you are nonsense and racist
You think all of Arabs and Persians are brown with dark hair and all of Azaris are white !!!!!!
and that is pure bulshit
Iranian are completely similar to each other and nobody can guess who is from which background from the faces
also, Turks are one of Iranian group like Kurds, Balouch, Persians, .....
both culturally, and genetically we are same the only difference is language
 
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PERSIAN is NOT Necessarily IRANIC . Just like Israeli not really native semites, You might have 10% persian blood 5000 years ago, today, I dont know.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Iranian Y-DNA/default.aspx?section=ycolorized


about Persians claim to be whites!! and aryans!!:
it all begun by Pahlavi regime’s propaganda, you should know that the country iran is consisted of two main ethnic groups, brown- Semitic Persians and semi white Azeri and other Turkic people, now until about 100 years ago it was those Turkic people who were ruling the country and everything was fine with it, but as soon as Persians took control things got changed, Persians tried to assimilate Turkic people with all means possible, and then someone appeared around in the world called “Hitler” and declared that al none Aryan people are best and such, thus Pahlavi begun a new program, since only white people in Iran could be found among those Turkic ones they made a plan to assimilate Iranian Azeris and use them as pure white Aryan Persians! they begun a very vast propaganda, bribed many historians and made a fake history for ancient Persian, (while all Greek references have described Persians as the other way!!).

Pahlavi had many goals by those devises:

1- assimilate Iranian Turks and thus block any separation leanings.

2- buy a better international position for Persians.

3- Compensate the historical obsession of Persian people who were ruled by non persians for almost 14 centuries.

4- Make Persians to hate Arabs and Islam as the personal wish of Pahlavi king was such.

the pressure on Azeris went so high that about 65 years ago they begun an armed movement to separate, but Pahlavi tanks invaded Tabriz and killed many people, from that day Azeris say that Iran has occupied the southern Azerbaijan.

by the way, the name Iran itself is an innovation of Pahlavi regime, they use this name and say it means the land of aryans hence we are aryans! even now persians use documents of iranian Azeris to prove themselves as whites and aryans! even now Azeris are not allowed to teach their own language in their schools.

————————

they say such nonsenses like if they are indo Europeans and Arabs are not white like them and such, while Persians are very brown, they look like a mixture between Arabs and Dravidians, the whitest persian could be an arab! i swear most of the arabs are whiter than any persians, but remember that about 40% of iran’s population are of turkic descends. some of them are really white but the majority just have some white traits.


Just look at what remains of ancient Persia’s cornics and stone shapes, do those people drawed on stones look any kind of white people? Hell no!!
Beside, Ancient Persians were using Ilamits scripts and according to a recent genetic study shown in BBC TV Persians are direct descendant of Ilamits
Where did you get this bull from??

Everything you said its goes on your fake turanian country
 
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The inscription of Darius the Great at Bisutun reads in part; “I am a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan of the Aryan race.”

Whatever "Aryan" means, it certainly wasn't what Hitler had in mind. Even if it's a valid racial or ethnic designation, it applies almost exclusively to speakers of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family. Genetic studies do seem to suggest the closest "relatives" of most Iranians are the peoples of the Mediterranean basin, Indians, and the Turks, but that we are only distantly related to Northern Europeans. The Slavic people are much closer (the "Russ" were the Viking tribe who conquered Russia and from whom the country gets its name).

You would think the Nazis would catch on to this since the vast majority of Iranians come no where close to the Nazi racial ideal (while plenty of Slavs actually do). So beyond what some of the answers here suggest (which are all excellent points), what else might have been up?

Here's what Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel had to say about Iran:

"In Persia first arises that light which shines itself and illuminates what is around...The principle of development begins with the history of Persia; this constitutes, therefore, the beginning of history."

Wow. That's some praise from one of the greatest European philosophers of the 19th century. Here's the thing, you can bet your bottom dollar Hegel wasn't referring to your typical 19th century Persian, with his thick black mustache and pointy-up shoes, riding his donkey eating dolmeh.

The irony is that it wasn't Persian nationalists who started this "Iran is Aryan" thing, it was Europeans. And the purpose was essentially the same as when Arabs talk about "Arabic" or "Islamic" mathematics when referring to Persian mathematicians like Khawrazmi, the father of Algebra, or Biruni. We all want to claim that the greatest civilizations and the greatest achievements are somehow ours (Persians are guilty of this too when claiming scholars who clearly were Arabs or Turks were actually Iranian). You have to remember that the West essentially defined itself against the Persians. Between the Greeks and the Romans, it fought Persia for over a thousand years, was in intimate contact with the Iranian peoples, and to a great extent derived its sense of identity from this interaction.

So if you're basically a racist 19th century European looking at the Persian Empire, the first and arguably greatest empire that has ever existed, a civilization that essentially throws the 3Bs in your face (Bigger, Better, and Before you), you have two options;

1) Deny, denigrate, demonize.

2) Claim Persians were actually blonde, blue eyed "Aryans" who somehow wandered from Europe onto the Iranian plateau. Because god forbid a bunch of Asiatics could beat you at anything.

In the 19th and up to the mid 20th centuries, Germans espoused option 2 when contemplating the Persians. These days, option 1 is in full swing (if you don't believe me, watch 300 or any other show dealing with Persians). And in the days when the Aryan thing was in vogue, Iranians ate it up (and still do) as again, who do you want to be related to? The dominant civilizations of your time (the West) or your third-world neighbours?

The truth is that if you look at both ancient Persian art, as well as Greek and Roman art depicting Iranians, they're indistinguishable from modern Iranians. Even if somehow the very ancient Persians and Medes were blonde, it couldn't have been as recently as the 5th century BC (which is already a ridiculously long time ago).

A final irony of all this is that even the Greeks, who Northern Europeans consider the progenitors of Western civilization, weren't blondes. Greek art is also a testament to that. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to tell a Greek and a Persian apart back then, and even today; if I'm mistaken for anything other than Iranian, it's usually Greek. The Hollywood myth of blonde, blue-eyed ancient Greeks with Scottish accents is asinine and a thinly veiled racist expression since they go out of their way to depict Persians as basically African looking by comparison.

Ancient Greeks:
IMG_4188.JPG


Ancient Greek fighting ancient Iranian:
IMG_4189.JPG


Hollywood Greek:
IMG_4191.JPG


Hollywood Iranian:
IMG_4192.JPG


P.S.: The statement that the Persian Empire was "arguably the greatest empire that has ever existed" wasn't referring to geographic size (the Mongol Empire was far larger) and isn't a value judgement (well, maybe a little :-). What I'm referring to is that it's thought over 40% of humanity lived within its borders at its height. That would be like joining China, India, the US, and the Entire European Union into one colossal empire today.
 
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For Turkified Anatoli friends: [please for God USE your BRAIN]


Iranian DNA map:

2qnsgt2.jpg


Semite J2 DNA map:

www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

J2-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-Map-J2-M172-Map-J2-Haplogrubu-Haritasi-v3.png

aryan-people-1024x559.png


Haplogroup_F_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG


Semite J1 DNA map:

www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml

IMG_4586.PNG


J1_Haplogroup_%28Y-DNA%29.jpg


* both of J1 and J2 are spred from Iran.

G (Eastern european/Russian/Iranian) dna map:

مارکر+جی.jpg


"R1" most common Indo - European dna map:

727A12B5-7E14-4407-9114-B8D3F12EEA57-1257-000000BB55E7AAE9.gif


R1a (German) dna map:

haplogroupR1a.JPG


E dna map:

Haplogroup-E-V13.gif



Now let's see Anatoli's beloved Turk and Mongol dna map:

Mongol DNA map (haplogroup C):

1200px-Distribution_of_Haplogroup_C-M217_Y-DNA_-_worldwide.png


Turk DNA map (haplogroup Q):

Haplogroup_Q_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG



Iranian Azeri DNA map:

eogfWLi_d.jpg
 
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Its the other way around. Iranic = not necessarily Persian, but Persian = Iranic.



This is partially correct. But the country is consisted of close to 40 ethnic groups, not two! But there is no propaganda, you are contradicting yourself. Mohammad Reza Shah (Irans first Persian ruler, after thousand + years of Turk rule) asked for the international community to recognise this land as Iran, and not Persia! Why would he do that if he claimed Persians to be a superior race? He changed it to Iran to include, and unite all minorities, including the Azeris.



I find this laughable. Do you have any proof to back your theories?



Again, this is completely bull. There has always, and will always be separatist in any country. Whether they are of religious reasons, cultural reasons, political or whatever other reasons.

Anyway, what you are talking about didn't even happen during the Pahlavi era, why do you have to lie and say Pahlavi tanks invaded Tabriz and killed many people? I hate people like you, always creating and spreading lies!

What you are talking about happened during the constitutional revolution that took place from 1905 to 1911, during Qajar era, which was a Turk dynasty!! WTF does that have to do with Aryan Persian super race racism against Azeris?

Furthermore the Separatist was crushed by, guess who; No other than Irans Azeri National Heroes.... Sattar Khan and Baqer Khan which were honoured by the titles of Sardar e Melli (The Nations Commander) and Salar e Melli (The Nations General or something like that)

Iranians have lived in Iran at peace for thousands of years. Iran belongs to any Iranian. Whether he is Persian, Turk, Arab, Kurd or whatever.

Now don't even let me get started on Turkey and your fake history

I just had to add: Turks have ruled Iran for thousands of years, most recently until 1925. Do you honestly believe yourself when yo claim that Irans Turk population is oppressed or something? If Turks of Iran unite, we can separate whenever we wish and there is nothing anyone in Iran can do about it. But we don't want that, because, as I mentioned. Iran belongs to any Iranian, whether he is a Turk, Persian etc.

Oh, and BTW. Irans Supreme Leader. Khamenei. Is also Azeri

1- im just asking are you turk or azari ? because azeri is fake word that you must know better than me
2-you are saying we dont want be free because iran is for any iranian :D okey mankurt then i must speak turkish with you can you speak your mother language ? you know every people has right for learning to mother language . why turkish language is banned in iran ? if iran is for any iranians
3- what do you think about lake urmu ?
4-why iranians calls turks - like torke khar ?
5-why did not say one word aganist this pan farsist that these people saying bad things about turks
6-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u57-aviWFU
 
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Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race,' and Jake Gyllenhaal
by REZA ZIA-EBRAHIMI in London
06 Aug 2010
Troubling echoes in adherence to Hollywood vision of the past.
Everybody has heard about Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, the recent Walt Disney blockbuster featuring Jake Gyllenhaal in the role of...a prince of Persia. That a rather fair actor with Swedish and Ashkenazi heritage plays the lead role in a story set in ancient Iran caused a minor controversy. Some enlightened people believe that Hollywood missed an opportunity to transcend its stereotypical depictions of non-Europeans, particularly Middle Easterners, by offering the part to a brownish hero. Of course, in private discussions, many Iranians, always prompt to portray themselves as "Aryans," concurred that Gyllenhaal accurately embodies how their ancestors must have looked, before Arabs invaded and imposed both their religion and complexion at the point of the sword.
So far, nothing unusual. What is surprising and alarming, however, is that serious intellectuals condoned these views. Asked to comment on producer Jerry Bruckheimer's declaration to The Times of London that many Iranians were "blond and blue-eyed" until "the Turks kinda changed everything," American-Iranian author Reza Aslan asserted that, indeed, Iranians were Aryans. "If we went back in time 1,700 years to the mythological era," Aslan said, "all Iranians would look like Jake Gyllenhaal." This pronouncement highlights the resilience of what I call the "Aryan syndrome" in modern Iran. A historical detour is necessary to show why it is so problematic.

Aryanism is a system of thought born in early-nineteenth-century Europe that divides mankind into different "races." It deems the Aryan race to be "superior," more creative and morally upright than "inferior" races. Those Semites, "Negroes," and others were believed to be characterized by vicious simplicity, cupidity, treacherousness, and an incapacity to grasp metaphysics. It all started soon after Sir William Jones discovered in 1786 that Sanskrit and Persian were related to Latin and Greek, within what later came to be called the Indo-European family of languages.

The term "Aryan" itself is a neologism coined by a French Orientalist of the era, Abraham-Hyacinthe Anquetil-Duperron. It is synonymous with "Indo-European," although the latter has a more geographic connotation. In a Zeitgeist where nations and national cultures were given shape, where myths of genealogy were particularly appealing to intellectuals, and where some were grappling with the moral dilemma of colonizing people in far-off lands, Jones's linguistic theory was swiftly manipulated into a racial one -- linguistic similarity was assumed to denote racial kinship.

Throughout the nineteenth century, Aryanism was wrapped into the discourse of science. Racial anthropology came into being as a discipline claiming to classify humans into different racial categories with immutable psychological features by measuring noses, skulls, and ears. As we know all too well, Aryanists, in particular one Adolf Hitler, became increasingly obsessed with racial purity and elevated the opposition between Aryan and Semite to the level of paradigmatic antagonism. This opened the way for the next stage: extermination. Aryanism provided the ideological backbone for Nazi atrocities.

Today, talk of the "Aryan race" in the West is restricted to white supremacist circles in North America and neo-Nazi militants in Europe. The very concept of "race," although it is still used in political discourses, especially in the United States, is scientifically bankrupt. Leading scientific associations assert that genetic variations between human groups are so gradual that drawing lines is inevitably an arbitrary and subjective exercise. "Indo-European" today refers to languages, not to people, let alone people supposed to assume inherent characteristics. Even its now limited use has been questioned. According to prominent linguists such as Merritt Ruhlen and the late Joseph Greenberg, the theory which holds that Indo-European languages are unrelated to other language groups such as the "Semitic" is overstated, if not outright fictitious.

Despite the rather inglorious legacy of Aryanism, many Iranians still nonchalantly seize every opportunity to emphasize their "Aryanness." But how did Aryanism reach Iran in the first place? Iranian Aryanists would have us believe that we have referred to ourselves as ariya since time immemorial, and that this epithet is a racial one, used to distinguish those who are ariya from those who are not. The claim is fallacious. The term occurs only a handful of times in ancient inscriptions in the Avesta, and on the bas-reliefs of Naqsh-e Rostam and Bisotun. Absolutely no consistent meaning can be derived from these occurrences.

In spite of many attempts to force ariya into Aryanist assumptions, recent scholarship -- in particular the work of Gherardo Gnoli -- has shown that ariya was not quite a racial category. According to Gnoli, in Achaemenid times, ariya was a cultural and religious term to evoke the kings' origin, like a title of particular nobility. In its very restricted, exclusivist nature, that is quite different from a racial category. Moreover, as already mentioned, the term "Aryan" was coined by Anquetil-Duperron. The neologism is charged with modern and romantic European conceptions of "race" that did not exist in Eastern antiquity. Even more importantly, in the entire corpus of Persian literature, verse and prose, there is no reference to an Aryan race until the twentieth century.

A related myth is the one according to which "Iran" means the "land of Aryans." This myth was propagated by Max Müller, who claimed in 1862 that the term airyanem vaejah found in the Avesta is the ancestor of "Iran" and means the "Aryan expanse." This myth became so widespread that serious scholars propagate it even to this day. Suffice it to look at a dictionary.

By contrast, Gnoli contends that airyanem vaejah is not a historical land, but a legendary, cosmogonic concept in Zoroastrianism. Additionally, the "land of Aryans" would suppose that the inhabitants of the Achaemenid or Sasanian empires were racially conscious in a manner similar to nineteenth-century Europeans. This is of course highly unlikely, particularly given that the Iranian plateau already -- as it has ever since -- featured a complex mix of populations. Out of 30,000 tablets excavated in Persepolis, not one was written in Persian (most are in Elamite, and a few are in Aramean). In fact, the empire was a melting pot. To imagine that its inhabitants believed that a territory must belong to one people is an anachronistic projection of modern ideas onto the distant past. The presence of Arabs on the Iranian plateau and Iranians in the Arabian Peninsula is also attested, but somehow ignored by the prophets of Aryanism.

The now ubiquitous concept of the "Aryan race" first appeared in Iran in the 1890s. Mirza Agha Khan Kermani, one of the ideologues of a particularly bigoted version of Iranian nationalism, was the first to ever refer to it in writing. Interestingly, he spelled it àriyàn (آریان), a transliteration of the French aryen. Later, Sadegh Rezazadeh Shafagh came up with àriyàyi, the term now usually used in Persian. Hasan Priniya dwelt upon Aryans and the "science of race" in the textbooks he wrote for the first cohort of children to be mass schooled by the Pahlavi state in the 1930s.

By that point, the strange idea of Iranian-German racial brotherhood had already appeared in various writings, such as a poem dedicated to "Germania" by Vahid Dastgerdi during World War I. After the Nazis took power, the notion was actively disseminated by the German propaganda machine. The hugely popular journal Nàmeh-ye Iràn Bàstàn, the Persian-language broadcasts of Radio Berlin, the publications and lecture tours of the Deutsch-Persische Gesellschaft, and the holdings of the German Scientific Library all promoted the idea of Aryan brotherhood, as Germany sought to convince Iranians to supporting her cause against the "ugly fox" (Great Britain) and "deceitful bear" (the Soviet Union). It all worked very well. Observe how the German football team is even now welcomed in Iran, occasionally with enthusiastic collective Nazi salutes.

Why is Aryanism in Iran so resilient? Why has it never been questioned, criticized, or reevaluated? In my view, late-nineteenth-century Iran was a receptive environment for Aryanism, which came to play a crucial role in the definition of modern Iranian identity. In the nineteenth century, Qajar Iran had come into contact with Europe. This was no smooth encounter, as it first came through the defeats of the Russo-Persian wars. The Qajar elites were profoundly traumatized by the discovery of Europe's advances and Iran's backwardness. Iranian intellectuals spent decades attempting to make sense of the nation's decay.

Around the 1860s, a few intellectuals such as Mirza Fath'ali Akhundzadeh and Mirza Agha Khan Kermani pioneered a digestible and reassuring narrative, staggering in its simplicity: pre-Islamic Iran was a utopia of glory, power, refinement, and prosperity. The causes of the end of this magnificent past were to be laid entirely at the doorstep of the Arabs and their religion, Islam. Since the advent of Islam, Iranians had been miserable. If only Arabs had not brought Islam to Iran, the country would be as advanced, if not more, than France and England. The solution? Uprooting anything perceived to be "Arabic" or "Islamic" in Iranian customs and beliefs, including the alphabet, loanwords, and all religious practices. Such a project, which these intellectuals sincerely believed to be achievable, would overnight return Iran to its ancient glories. They entirely overlooked Iran's recent achievements -- of which there were more than a few -- but all this was, of course, designed to avoid examination of the nation's own shortcomings. Nationalism always needs scapegoats to protect the pristine nature of the "homeland" and its "true" people.

This was the context in which Iranian intellectuals heard, or rather read in Orientalist literature, that Iranians were members of that same superior race as Europeans. Aryanism was for them manna from heaven. It suddenly -- and, it should be added, unexpectedly -- provided them an attractive means to consolidate their fanciful theories. It is fascinating how deeply compatible Aryanism was with the emerging nationalist discourse: the opposition between Iranian and Arab fit squarely into the Aryan vs. Semite paradigm. It also came from Europe. How could the celebrated, emulated Europeans be wrong? Iranians' pride, seriously wounded by the encounter with Europe, could be assuaged with the conviction that they shared in the Europeans' racial superiority. No surprise that they adhered so tightly to the myth of the Aryan race.

Two strategies are served by this adherence. I call the first one self-Orientalization. This is a commitment to all European prejudices that regard Muslims, or generally the people of the East, as backward. The Iranian Aryan espouses these prejudices (which, in fact, also target him) and simply considers himself to be the Aryan exception. Self-Orientalization always involves an element of shame over traditional Iranian customs and features. This is patent in the justification that Reza Shah Pahlavi provided when he rendered the European chapeau (bowler hat) compulsory in 1935: "All I am trying to do is for us to look like [the Europeans], so they would not laugh at us."

The second strategy is that of dislocation, the attempt to dislodge Iran from its Eastern and Islamic reality and force it into a European one, under the claim that Iranians are members of the European family gone astray in the backward Middle East. The dislocation mentality has very deep roots in the Iranian psyche, as it was incessantly promoted by the Pahlavi state through every vehicle of education and propaganda. Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi himself was a militant of "dislocationism." He once told a journalist, for instance, "We are an Asian Aryan power whose mentality and philosophy are close to those of the European states, above all France." He confided to British Ambassador Anthony Parson that it was "an accident of history" that Iran found itself in the Middle East, a startling negation of the country's empirical reality.

Not only is Aryanism a relic of nineteenth-century European thought with an ignominious legacy, but its Iranian variety is a symptom of an entrenched complex of inferiority, a desperate attempt to be something other than a "mere Iranian." This complex is rooted in a traumatic encounter with Europe that took place two centuries ago. It thus alarms me that to this very day, serious Iranian intellectuals tell a wide audience that "Iranians are Aryans." Moreover, the belief that Aryans are supposed to be "fair" is rooted in a hypothesis fashionable in the 1930s according to which the cradle of the Aryan race, its Urheimat, was the Scandinavian Peninsula. It was this "Northern Hypothesis" that was at work in Nazi Germany's depictions of Aryans as a glorious blond, blue-eyed race. It is unfortunate that when people claim that we once all looked like Jake Gyllenhaal, they do not realize that they are referring to relics of the sort of thought at work in the minds of Nazi ideologues. This only highlights the urgent need for Iranians to question their identity myths and get rid of the distortional, racialist, bigoted view of their identity that they have inherited from Old Europe.
Reza Zia-Ebrahimi teaches history and politics at the University of Oxford and the London School of Economics. This article is a condensed version of his study "Self-Orientalisation and Dislocation: The Uses and Abuses of the Aryan Discourse in Iran," to be published in the Journal of Iranian Studies in early 2011. Please refer to this publication for thorough referencing of quotations and documents.

Copyright [emoji767] 2010 Tehran Bureau


Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/08/post-2.html#ixzz4mw1Ptqc1
 
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The inscription of Darius the Great at Bisutun reads in part; “I am a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan of the Aryan race.”

Whatever "Aryan" means, it certainly wasn't what Hitler had in mind. Even if it's a valid racial or ethnic designation, it applies almost exclusively to speakers of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family. Genetic studies do seem to suggest the closest "relatives" of most Iranians are the peoples of the Mediterranean basin, Indians, and the Turks, but that we are only distantly related to Northern Europeans. The Slavic people are much closer (the "Russ" were the Viking tribe who conquered Russia and from whom the country gets its name).

You would think the Nazis would catch on to this since the vast majority of Iranians come no where close to the Nazi racial ideal (while plenty of Slavs actually do). So beyond what some of the answers here suggest (which are all excellent points), what else might have been up?

Here's what Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel had to say about Iran:

"In Persia first arises that light which shines itself and illuminates what is around...The principle of development begins with the history of Persia; this constitutes, therefore, the beginning of history."

Wow. That's some praise from one of the greatest European philosophers of the 19th century. Here's the thing, you can bet your bottom dollar Hegel wasn't referring to your typical 19th century Persian, with his thick black mustache and pointy-up shoes, riding his donkey eating dolmeh.

The irony is that it wasn't Persian nationalists who started this "Iran is Aryan" thing, it was Europeans. And the purpose was essentially the same as when Arabs talk about "Arabic" or "Islamic" mathematics when referring to Persian mathematicians like Khawrazmi, the father of Algebra, or Biruni. We all want to claim that the greatest civilizations and the greatest achievements are somehow ours (Persians are guilty of this too when claiming scholars who clearly were Arabs or Turks were actually Iranian). You have to remember that the West essentially defined itself against the Persians. Between the Greeks and the Romans, it fought Persia for over a thousand years, was in intimate contact with the Iranian peoples, and to a great extent derived its sense of identity from this interaction.

So if you're basically a racist 19th century European looking at the Persian Empire, the first and arguably greatest empire that has ever existed, a civilization that essentially throws the 3Bs in your face (Bigger, Better, and Before you), you have two options;

1) Deny, denigrate, demonize.

2) Claim Persians were actually blonde, blue eyed "Aryans" who somehow wandered from Europe onto the Iranian plateau. Because god forbid a bunch of Asiatics could beat you at anything.

In the 19th and up to the mid 20th centuries, Germans espoused option 2 when contemplating the Persians. These days, option 1 is in full swing (if you don't believe me, watch 300 or any other show dealing with Persians). And in the days when the Aryan thing was in vogue, Iranians ate it up (and still do) as again, who do you want to be related to? The dominant civilizations of your time (the West) or your third-world neighbours?

The truth is that if you look at both ancient Persian art, as well as Greek and Roman art depicting Iranians, they're indistinguishable from modern Iranians. Even if somehow the very ancient Persians and Medes were blonde, it couldn't have been as recently as the 5th century BC (which is already a ridiculously long time ago).

A final irony of all this is that even the Greeks, who Northern Europeans consider the progenitors of Western civilization, weren't blondes. Greek art is also a testament to that. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to tell a Greek and a Persian apart back then, and even today; if I'm mistaken for anything other than Iranian, it's usually Greek. The Hollywood myth of blonde, blue-eyed ancient Greeks with Scottish accents is asinine and a thinly veiled racist expression since they go out of their way to depict Persians as basically African looking by comparison.

Ancient Greeks:
View attachment 411610

Ancient Greek fighting ancient Iranian:
View attachment 411611

Hollywood Greek:
View attachment 411620

Hollywood Iranian:
View attachment 411621
Hey dude, you completely surprise me
you are right, we import many of viva persia story from Europe but not all of it
However Iran always existed you can find it in literature, arts, culture .....
actually Iran was base of Zoroastrian belief and different than persia
persia was one province of Iran
the concept of Iran developed in the Sassanian Empire

do you know about recent researches about Aryan movements base on history of climate changes in Iran + genetic changes in Iran ???
that can give better view about reason of population movements in thousands yeas ago

do you know, why old and great civilization like Jiroft and shahr-sokhte was disappeared in Iran ????
do you know, who exactly aryans was ???
 
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I am sick of these Iranian vs Turk e-contests on internet.


nerd-fight-gif.gif
I am agree with you bro and feeling same
this is like two brother insult the mother of each other
we are completely same base on culture, history, and many other things
we just speak differently
 
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I am sick of these Iranian vs Turk e-contests on internet.


nerd-fight-gif.gif

And they are completely counterproductive and useless. Iran and Turkey, two great civilisations in a region full of states so fake you can see where the British and French used their rulers to draw up their borders. We aren't even enemies. We should be cooperating on regional issues in all levels.

But hey, at least it derailed a stupid thread. No loss.
 
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Iranic vs Turkic e-fights are like two arms of one body trying to hit each other and they end up hurting the body they both belong to ... e-aryans vs turk e-bozkurtlar lol

And they are completely counterproductive and useless. Iran and Turkey, two great civilisations in a region full of states so fake you can see where the British and French used their rulers to draw up their borders. We aren't even enemies. We should be cooperating on regional issues in all levels.

But hey, at least it derailed a stupid thread. No loss.

a renowned saoodi booster troll from his 10-11th account started this thread. I think he got banned again. He was busted calling all pakistanis as brown dravidians and stuff in oman military thread. Stupid e-move if you ask me ...
 
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Both MERTKaan and Hextor, How do you keep lying infront of when all evidence proves otherwise?

Thats funny because about 90% of all Historical Scholars, Geno-logist, Scientists, and all Western and Non Western Sources and Accounts say against all you Turkish People say. = You Turkish Posters are liars with has mental health problems

You people are NOT Turks, just like Israelis are Not Semite Natives of ME. Now Deal is Iranians have always been IRANIANS, Even the FOUNDER of Iran was not 100% Persian, He was 50% Medes (Kurd) and 50% Elami (Persian) There is a Difference, Iran Iranic People, Greek Greeko People of Various Kingdoms Be it Athenians or Helenics, Pontos or Spartans or This and That.

You Turkish people on the other hand were Persianized Anatolian, Then Romanized Anatolians, Now Mongolized Turkified Persianized Greeko fied Anatolians. While Iranians have always carried the Iranic Gene be it a Kurd or a Loori or a Baluchi or a Parsi or some Azari.


Now you Turks want to be White, F*** the Whites, What is a White? Anglo Saxon? You people are the wannabes. You Azaris pushing Turkish Agenda is even more pathetic, We know very well the zendekhane the azari girls cross the border open up once they are abord or in turkey identifying as persian. you pieces of shiizers.. As for the whites, yea most iranians and other "non whites" look whites than them, they were living in Caves when my ancestors had Empires and Civilization, They were nobody when True Iranians and Huns went to rape and pillage their women and create their bastard races. Germans are Saxons and Sextans(Sekstan Beluchistan) is their gene pool originated from, or rather when we went to mix with their nomadic failures that we see today.

Only Iranians are Aryans, Iran It means Land of the Aryans, Germans and Rest of Anglo Saxons are just our offshots like you Turks. We are going to F them all up and we will get you too if you push it, You FAKE TURKISH Person Claiming to be TURK.

Last time Turks Claimed to be Decendants of Muhammad, Then They said Greeks and the Mongolians are Decendents of Turkey then they said the Moon came to dream of Salim the Grim one night and well now you are all deranged lunatics.



PERSIAN is NOT Necessarily IRANIC . Just like Israeli not really native semites, You might have 10% persian blood 5000 years ago, today, I dont know.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Iranian Y-DNA/default.aspx?section=ycolorized


about Persians claim to be whites!! and aryans!!:
it all begun by Pahlavi regime’s propaganda, you should know that the country iran is consisted of two main ethnic groups, brown- Semitic Persians and semi white Azeri and other Turkic people, now until about 100 years ago it was those Turkic people who were ruling the country and everything was fine with it, but as soon as Persians took control things got changed, Persians tried to assimilate Turkic people with all means possible, and then someone appeared around in the world called “Hitler” and declared that al none Aryan people are best and such, thus Pahlavi begun a new program, since only white people in Iran could be found among those Turkic ones they made a plan to assimilate Iranian Azeris and use them as pure white Aryan Persians! they begun a very vast propaganda, bribed many historians and made a fake history for ancient Persian, (while all Greek references have described Persians as the other way!!).

Pahlavi had many goals by those devises:

1- assimilate Iranian Turks and thus block any separation leanings.

2- buy a better international position for Persians.

3- Compensate the historical obsession of Persian people who were ruled by non persians for almost 14 centuries.

4- Make Persians to hate Arabs and Islam as the personal wish of Pahlavi king was such.

the pressure on Azeris went so high that about 65 years ago they begun an armed movement to separate, but Pahlavi tanks invaded Tabriz and killed many people, from that day Azeris say that Iran has occupied the southern Azerbaijan.

by the way, the name Iran itself is an innovation of Pahlavi regime, they use this name and say it means the land of aryans hence we are aryans! even now persians use documents of iranian Azeris to prove themselves as whites and aryans! even now Azeris are not allowed to teach their own language in their schools.

————————

they say such nonsenses like if they are indo Europeans and Arabs are not white like them and such, while Persians are very brown, they look like a mixture between Arabs and Dravidians, the whitest persian could be an arab! i swear most of the arabs are whiter than any persians, but remember that about 40% of iran’s population are of turkic descends. some of them are really white but the majority just have some white traits.


Just look at what remains of ancient Persia’s cornics and stone shapes, do those people drawed on stones look any kind of white people? Hell no!!
Beside, Ancient Persians were using Ilamits scripts and according to a recent genetic study shown in BBC TV Persians are direct descendant of Ilamits

The inscription of Darius the Great at Bisutun reads in part; “I am a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan of the Aryan race.”

Whatever "Aryan" means, it certainly wasn't what Hitler had in mind. Even if it's a valid racial or ethnic designation, it applies almost exclusively to speakers of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-European language family. Genetic studies do seem to suggest the closest "relatives" of most Iranians are the peoples of the Mediterranean basin, Indians, and the Turks, but that we are only distantly related to Northern Europeans. The Slavic people are much closer (the "Russ" were the Viking tribe who conquered Russia and from whom the country gets its name).

You would think the Nazis would catch on to this since the vast majority of Iranians come no where close to the Nazi racial ideal (while plenty of Slavs actually do). So beyond what some of the answers here suggest (which are all excellent points), what else might have been up?

Here's what Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel had to say about Iran:

"In Persia first arises that light which shines itself and illuminates what is around...The principle of development begins with the history of Persia; this constitutes, therefore, the beginning of history."

Wow. That's some praise from one of the greatest European philosophers of the 19th century. Here's the thing, you can bet your bottom dollar Hegel wasn't referring to your typical 19th century Persian, with his thick black mustache and pointy-up shoes, riding his donkey eating dolmeh.

The irony is that it wasn't Persian nationalists who started this "Iran is Aryan" thing, it was Europeans. And the purpose was essentially the same as when Arabs talk about "Arabic" or "Islamic" mathematics when referring to Persian mathematicians like Khawrazmi, the father of Algebra, or Biruni. We all want to claim that the greatest civilizations and the greatest achievements are somehow ours (Persians are guilty of this too when claiming scholars who clearly were Arabs or Turks were actually Iranian). You have to remember that the West essentially defined itself against the Persians. Between the Greeks and the Romans, it fought Persia for over a thousand years, was in intimate contact with the Iranian peoples, and to a great extent derived its sense of identity from this interaction.

So if you're basically a racist 19th century European looking at the Persian Empire, the first and arguably greatest empire that has ever existed, a civilization that essentially throws the 3Bs in your face (Bigger, Better, and Before you), you have two options;

1) Deny, denigrate, demonize.

2) Claim Persians were actually blonde, blue eyed "Aryans" who somehow wandered from Europe onto the Iranian plateau. Because god forbid a bunch of Asiatics could beat you at anything.

In the 19th and up to the mid 20th centuries, Germans espoused option 2 when contemplating the Persians. These days, option 1 is in full swing (if you don't believe me, watch 300 or any other show dealing with Persians). And in the days when the Aryan thing was in vogue, Iranians ate it up (and still do) as again, who do you want to be related to? The dominant civilizations of your time (the West) or your third-world neighbours?

The truth is that if you look at both ancient Persian art, as well as Greek and Roman art depicting Iranians, they're indistinguishable from modern Iranians. Even if somehow the very ancient Persians and Medes were blonde, it couldn't have been as recently as the 5th century BC (which is already a ridiculously long time ago).

A final irony of all this is that even the Greeks, who Northern Europeans consider the progenitors of Western civilization, weren't blondes. Greek art is also a testament to that. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to tell a Greek and a Persian apart back then, and even today; if I'm mistaken for anything other than Iranian, it's usually Greek. The Hollywood myth of blonde, blue-eyed ancient Greeks with Scottish accents is asinine and a thinly veiled racist expression since they go out of their way to depict Persians as basically African looking by comparison.

Ancient Greeks:
View attachment 411610

Ancient Greek fighting ancient Iranian:
View attachment 411611

Hollywood Greek:
View attachment 411620

Hollywood Iranian:
View attachment 411621

P.S.: The statement that the Persian Empire was "arguably the greatest empire that has ever existed" wasn't referring to geographic size (the Mongol Empire was far larger) and isn't a value judgement (well, maybe a little :-). What I'm referring to is that it's thought over 40% of humanity lived within its borders at its height. That would be like joining China, India, the US, and the Entire European Union into one colossal empire today.[/QUOTE
 
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Most Iranians are "not Aryan"
According to research by Dr. Maziar Ashrafian in UK

بی بی سی فارسی: گروهی از محققین ژنتیک در دانشگاه پورت موس انگلیس، به سرپرستی یک محقق ایرانی به نتایج جالبی درباره نژاد ایرانیان رسیده‌اند. این گروه معتقدند اکثر ایرانیان بر خلاف آنچه تصور می شود، نژاد آریایی ندارند بلکه به نژادی تعلق دارند که حدود ده هزار سال پیش ساکن ایران بوده‌اند. این تحقیقات که قسمتی از تحقیقات جهانی ژنتیک است به سرپرستی دکتر مازیار اشرفیان بناب سالها پیش در دانشگاه کمبریج شروع شده و در دانشگاه پورت موس به نتیجه رسیده است.

https://iranian.com/main/2011/nov/most-iranians-are-not-aryan.html
 
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