The illicit wine-makers of Pakistan's north

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Lol, I knew where you were going to come from next.

Now for your understanding............ is Hadees the basis of understanding Sunnah and pillars of Islam? Or is the established doings of Prophet Muhammad PBUH Sunnah (let's say established facts as witnessed by first generation Muslims), or is Sunnah only what is narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmizi et al.

I will leave the rest to the best of your judgement (or lack thereof)...........

Peace and knowledge be with you. With this we conclude today's fatwa and Islam 101!

Firstly, hadith is the SUNNAH. I'm sorry bhai-jan i can't spend time on going through details of basics of Islamic Aqeedah with you. It is suffice to know Quran is the divine revelation and the Sunnah, i.e Nabi As'salaathu was'salaam is part of Iman to be a Muslim.

There is no point talking about early generations as you reject hadith.

To cut the long story short I ask you bhai-jaan where in the Quran does it say:

a) 5 namaaz?
b). How to do namaz?

There are other matters in the quran that the nabi As'salaathu was'salaam explained/clarified i.e his sunnah as'salaathu was'salaam that are not clear in the Quran.

Please answer the above two questions for your own sake.

By the way, only deviation from Tauheed is Kufr. You just became a non Muslim with that statement of yours. Did you know that?

Tawheed means the oneness of Allah and believing in his attributes. I am Sunni and don't reject any matters of belief. Fyi I have studied aqeedah and I know very well what takes a person out of the fold of Islam.

What I said about you is you're ignorant and I make no judgement against you as only a MUFTI can. A judgement by a Mufti can only be made once educating you and answering ALL your questions.

 

[Mutakalim]

You both and others like you - You people need to get your barometer right and understand the meaning of "Haram", haram as in forbidden, as in punishable offense. I don't know which version of Islam your kind follows, however, I follow the only version that I understand to be true till the ends of time, that can not be corrupted, that comes from The Holy Quran and established daily life activities of The Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH (As in Salat + Zakat + Judgements on record). Period. No 'so called' Sunnah that is derived from medieval methodology called the art of "Hadees writing" or whatever you want to call that compilation called saha-sitta. Don't worry, I've spent better part of my life understanding the proofs of concept behind it, and have come to a conclusion that ANYTHING that does not conform 100% to the Holy Quran, can not be true, and if a person can lie once (various authors of Hadees), they could and would have lied many times more as well, for example do you believe that in saha sitta, Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj states that "black dogs are a manifestation of evil in animal form, that need to be killed" the hadees being an authentic hadees..... do you really think that Prophet Muhammad PBUH ever ever ever said such a thing (as per your limited brain capacity)?

You people are nothing but automatons, where you people blindly follow pagan Arab mythology with a mixture of your local Pakistani culture (which in fact is Indian, by the way), attribute falsely to Prophet Muhammad PBUH, and label yourselves as true believers.

If you want to talk about the topic at hand, I can argue for days at end, but you people don't have the mental or moral competency to argue with me.

You think you are mentally and morally a superior race from rest of Muslims and God has gifted you with special intellect to separate right from wrong. Rests of people from 1400 years are mentally retarded and dumb as they are not able understand the right meaning of Quran and Saying of Rasool Allah. And here comes the intellectually superior race to understand the right meaning of Quran which suites themselves after 1400 years.

The problem with your thinking is that you only accept the ruling from Islam, which suites you and discard other things. You people can twist and turn every Ayah to suit you and to satisfy your mental behavior and ego.

As it is evident from your post that you only believe in yourself so there is no point in further debating.

You people need “Tazkiya” as you have already passed beyond “Hikmah”. Just start with lowering your ego.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Now those are great questions. If the Quran does not mention it ............

Unfortunately, the rejector of hadith who are called Ahal-Quraniya are NOT Muslims as per Islamic scholars as they reject nabi as'salathu was'salaam.

They stumble on the above mentioned questions and yet do namaaz 5 times. They don't reject 5x namaaz as even non-Muslims know Muslims perform it.

 

[VCheng]

Unfortunately, the rejector of hadith who are called Ahal-Quraniya are NOT Muslims as per Islamic scholars as they reject nabi as'salathu was'salaam.

They stumble on the above mentioned questions and yet do namaaz 5 times. They don't reject 5x namaaz as even non-Muslims know Muslims perform it.

Do you agree that if something is really important, the Quran itself mentions it specifically?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

O believers enter into Islam completely and do not follow the footsteps of Shaitan, surely he is your clear-cut enemy. (Surah Al-Baqara, Ayah 208)



Wine is haram and you are wrong! These are those matters that are not disputed like namaz; to the point that non-muslims know.

“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al‑Ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols etc), and Al‑Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful” [al-Maa’idah 5:90]

Hadith explanation of the above surah:

Abu Dawood (3674) and Ibn Maajah (3380) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: The Nabi (as'salaathu was'salaam) said: “Allaah has cursed alcohol, the one who drinks it, the one who pours it, the one who sells it, the one who buys it, the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who carries it and the one to whom it is carried.” Abu Dawood.

And You are wrong as well.
In 5:05 it is permitted to consume all good things.
Small amount of Alcohol has been proven to have a positive influence of health.
This means 5:05 permits SOME alcohol.

The Qur'an itself claims that it is sometimes contradictory, but in this case God is a forgiving god.

5:90 gives advice that intoxicants may make your life a misery,
and certainly alcoholism leads to misery.
It does not state that it is forbidden.
It does not state that it is a sin.
It is more like friendly advice, which you may or may not want to follow.
You are told about possible consequences, and those are that you may not be prosperous.

5:93 also says that if you behave like a proper muslim, what you eat will not get you into trouble.
So the occasional ham sandwich is OK as well, if you otherwise behave.

Overconsumption of alcohol at a single occasion, may lead to misery.
Examples:
Driving a car while drunk, may lead to fatal accidents.
Some people get very aggressive after they had a few drinks,
and obviously they should avoid alcohol.
This is what 5:90 warns us about.

Breaking the law, while under the influence of alcohol, deserves additional punishment.
Enjoying my Chateau LaTour 1981 in the company of good friends does not.

You need to study the Qur'an a little more...

If You reject 5:05 and 5:93 you become a non-muslim.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Do you agree that if something is really important, the Quran itself mentions it specifically?

Bhai-jaan everything in the quran is important and namaaz is mentioned but not number of times.

This why YOU have believe in ALLAH and MUHAMMAD as'salaathu was'salaam to be a MUSLIM.

The Nabi as'salathu was'salaam did namaaz 5 times a day! He is the Sunnah (hadith) (as'salaathu was'salaam)

Allah says, "Whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a blaze for the unbelievers." [Al-Qur'an 48:13]

 

[VCheng]

Bhai-jaan everything in the quran is important and namaaz is mentioned but not number of times.

This why YOU have believe in ALLAH and MUHAMMAD as'salaathu was'salaam to be a MUSLIM.

The Nabi as'salathu was'salaam did namaaz 5 times a day! He is the Sunnah (hadith) (as'salaathu was'salaam)

Allah says, "Whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a blaze for the unbelievers." [Al-Qur'an 48:13]

So may be the conclusion is that namaz itself is very important, but the way and the numbers are not as important?

 

[Mutakalim]

Wine is haram and you are wrong! These are those matters that are not disputed like namaz; to the point that non-muslims know.

“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al‑Ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols etc), and Al‑Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful” [al-Maa’idah 5:90]

Hadith explanation of the above surah:

Abu Dawood (3674) and Ibn Maajah (3380) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: The Nabi (as'salaathu was'salaam) said: “Allaah has cursed alcohol, the one who drinks it, the one who pours it, the one who sells it, the one who buys it, the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who carries it and the one to whom it is carried.” Abu Dawood.

Leave him to his mental condition and ego. No need of further debate.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

And You are wrong as well.
In 5:05 it is permitted to consume all good things.
Small amount of Alcohol has been proven to have a positive influence of health.
This means 5:05 permits SOME alcohol.

The Qur'an itself claims that it is sometimes contradictory, but in this case God is a forgiving god.

5:90 gives advice that intoxicants may make your life a misery,
and certainly alcoholism leads to misery.
It does not state that it is forbidden.
It does not state that it is a sin.
It is more like friendly advice, which you may or may not want to follow.
You are told about possible consequences, and those are that you may not be prosperous.

5:93 also says that if you behave like a proper muslim, what you eat will not get you into trouble.

Overconsumption of alcohol at a single occasion, may lead to misery.
Examples:
Driving a car while drunk, may lead to fatal accidents.
Some people get very aggressive after they had a few drinks,
and obviously they should avoid alcohol.
This is what 5:90 warns us about.

Breaking the law, while under the influence of alcohol, deserves additional punishment.
Enjoying my Chateau LaTour 1981 in the company of good friends does not.

You need to study the Qur'an a little more...

Respectfully sir, as a Muslims who has spent time studying Islam and speak Arabic language and don't rely on English translations for understandings; I know what is forbidden and not. Even the unlettered Muslims know this and the majority of NON-MUSLIMS! I'm sorry for the lazy reply and not answering you with evidence as I believe it is not necessary.

For your information; quranic verses don't contradict as some verses were abrogated over time. For example, don't enter prayer in state of intoxicant. Later Allah made drinking Alcohol forbidden. So...verses are revealed in time, place and circumstances and need to be studied and not looked at in isolation as the extremists do!

So may be the conclusion is that namaz itself is very important, but the way and the numbers are not as important?

The way and number is important as mentioned shown and mentioned by the Prophet as'salaathu was'salaam. I have given you the verse previsouly where Allah states; obeying Allah is obeying the messenger (as'salaathu was'salaam)...

I suggest bhai to study Islam and accept the nabi as'salaathu was'salaath as the RASOOL-ALLAH!

May Allah guide those who need guidance. Amin!

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Respectfully sir, as a Muslims who has spent time studying Islam and speak Arabic language and don't rely on English translations for understandings; I know what is forbidden and not. Even the unlettered Muslims know this and the majority of NON-MUSLIMS! I'm sorry for the lazy reply and not answering you with evidence as I believe it is not necessary.

For your information; quranic verses don't contradict as some verses were abrogated over time. For example, don't enter prayer in state of intoxicant. Later Allah made drinking Alcohol forbidden. So...verses are revealed in time, place and circumstances and need to be studied and not looked at in isolation as the extremists do!



The way and number is important as mentioned shown and mentioned by the Prophet as'salaathu was'salaam. I have given you the verse previsouly where Allah states; obeying Allah is obeying the messenger (as'salaathu was'salaam)...

I suggest bhai to study Islam and accept the nabi as'salaathu was'salaath as the RASOOL-ALLAH!

May Allah guide those who need guidance. Amin!

Yeey, thats an old trick, by any confidence artist.
You know as well as anyone that claims have to be backed up by sources.
Consider the argument lost, until You can perform a little better.

Public "knowledge" is often wrong, once You study the details

 

[VCheng]

The way and number is important as mentioned shown and mentioned by the Prophet as'salaathu was'salaam. I have given you the verse previsouly where Allah states; obeying Allah is obeying the messenger (as'salaathu was'salaam)...

I suggest bhai to study Islam and accept the nabi as'salaathu was'salaath as the RASOOL-ALLAH!

May Allah guide those who need guidance. Amin!

But that is the point: Allah commands us to pray to Him, so we agree that is very important. If He does not tell us how and when and how many times to pray, then we can follow His Prophet PBUH, but the exact method cannot be as important, since we know that His beloved Prophet himself said prayers in many different ways, and therefore other ways are also acceptable. We cannot always follow everything what Mohammad PBUH did in his time exactly as he did, obviously.

 

[insight-out]

So may be the conclusion is that namaz itself is very important, but the way and the numbers are not as important?

No, that is not the conclusion.

 

[Hyperion]

Weeding out the infidels, I see!

But that is the point: Allah commands us to pray to Him, so we agree that is very important. If He does not tell us how and when and how many times to pray, then we can follow His Prophet PBUH, but the exact method cannot be as important, since we know that His beloved Prophet himself said prayers in many different ways, and therefore other ways are also acceptable. We cannot always follow everything what Mohammad PBUH did in his time exactly as he did, obviously.

Then what is the conclusion - that's what everyone wants to know!

No, that is not the conclusion.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

You both and others like you - You people need to get your barometer right and understand the meaning of "Haram", haram as in forbidden, as in punishable offense. I don't know which version of Islam your kind follows, however, I follow the only version that I understand to be true till the ends of time, that can not be corrupted, that comes from The Holy Quran and established daily life activities of The Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH (As in Salat + Zakat + Judgements on record). Period. No 'so called' Sunnah that is derived from medieval methodology called the art of "Hadees writing" or whatever you want to call that compilation called saha-sitta. Don't worry, I've spent better part of my life understanding the proofs of concept behind it, and have come to a conclusion that ANYTHING that does not conform 100% to the Holy Quran, can not be true, and if a person can lie once (various authors of Hadees), they could and would have lied many times more as well, for example do you believe that in saha sitta, Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj states that "black dogs are a manifestation of evil in animal form, that need to be killed" the hadees being an authentic hadees..... do you really think that Prophet Muhammad PBUH ever ever ever said such a thing (as per your limited brain capacity)?

You people are nothing but automatons, where you people blindly follow pagan Arab mythology with a mixture of your local Pakistani culture (which in fact is Indian, by the way), attribute falsely to Prophet Muhammad PBUH, and label yourselves as true believers.

If you want to talk about the topic at hand, I can argue for days at end, but you people don't have the mental or moral competency to argue with me.

Exactly; i doubted the Quran at first; but after looking into; i now know that nothing in the world can challenge it.

 

[Dubious]

is Hadees the basis of understanding Sunnah and pillars of Islam?

This uncle is not a hadith:

“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al‑Ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols etc), and Al‑Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful” [al-Maa’idah 5:90]