The Huntington Thesis and Turkey's New Role

[Nein]

Believe it or not , any state which mimics Western cultures and values will be rejected by majority of the Muslim community. That pro West state will never become 'a core Islamic State'. This was also one of factor which caused the downfall of the later Ottoman. Do not dance in a tango with the West.

Its not just that no matter how much western or european you act. You will never be accepted as equal to them.

 

[Old School]

Its not just that no matter how much western or european you act. You will never be accepted as equal to them.

Yes. West will only use you and dump you when their objectives are met. Only a fool will want to become one of the west by mimicking them. West likes these useful idiots from the Muslim world.

 

[Bismarck]

have you read the book? between him and Fukujamas End of History bullshit, Hutinghton got way more things right. Even if his overall conclusion is maybe wrong, many of his analysis f individual contries for exmpl were spot on. Mind you entire Bush administration and neoconservative elite did shape much of 21 century heavily influnced by him.

Buffets dont run the world. At least not yet.

Read what the richest man on earth said. https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html

 

[rajvoSa]

Read what the richest man on earth said. https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html

I dont have a subscription. Bezos is the richest man, tho.

 

[Timur]

ideological doctrine is more important than the economy

that is a fault and totally wrong.. there may be a core of ppl for whom this is right but for the major masses forget it! money talks.. as we see today in SA I give SA more chances today because they have a better money flow and pay nations.. their newly found libarism will triple double their efforts..

if Turkey manages to have more money, be more selfsufficient and can stand infront of big players that it will turn because of that and not because only of ideology.. with money we will than have more "friends" who would stand against SA and their minions and paid minions..

 

[Old School]

that is a fault and totally wrong.. there may be a core of ppl for whom this is right but for the major masses forget it! money talks.. as we see today in SA I give SA more chances today because they have a better money flow and pay nations.. their newly found libarism will triple double their efforts..

if Turkey manages to have more money, be more selfsufficient and can stand infront of big players that it will turn because of that and not because only of ideology.. with money we will than have more "friends" who would stand against SA and their minions and paid minions..

You missed the point. Turkey can not make itself a core Muslim state all by itself. They need the broader support base in the Muslim world . Money alone is not sufficient as it evident from Saudi or Qatar. Turkey will also need a strong Ideological standpoint. They must leave NATO at that stage. A core state is much more than an economy. Not friends, you need followers in order to become a core state. More than Somalia or Libya is needed. Alienating Arabs will not be helpful either.

 

[rajvoSa]

that is a fault and totally wrong.. there may be a core of ppl for whom this is right but for the major masses forget it! money talks.. as we see today in SA I give SA more chances today because they have a better money flow and pay nations.. their newly
found libarism will triple double their efforts..

if Turkey manages to have more money, be more selfsufficient and can stand infront of big players that it will turn because of that and not because only of ideology.. with money we will than have more "friends" who would stand against SA and their minions and paid minions..

Not just money. But shared vision of taking back the power and making muslim world great again. With Imran Khan, Mahatmir/Anwar rising to power in Pakistan/malasya and their similiar vision they are getting nervous. So called muslim world is rich in resources, human as well natural. It streches from from North Africa, sub saharan, part of Europe, ME all the way to Estern Asia. (Sure, they are nowtough on refugess, but they are gladly all of them welcoming best and brighters from those regions, doctors, scientiest and so on..) And western elites know it, that way some of the actors that tend most to loose like France in North Africa are so hawkish in Lybia now and are bussy in propping up the useful idiots from crown prince of UAE, french foreign policy is basicly in line with UAE, another short sighted fool. I mean, they basicly blackmailed countries not to attend Malasya summit part on behalf of their allies France, Israel...

and there is also issue of reviving the old Medditerian route and Silk road which is another topic.

You missed the point. Turkey can not make itself a core Muslim state all by itself. They need the broader support base in the Muslim world . Money alone is not sufficient as it evident from Saudi or Qatar. Turkey will also need a strong Ideological standpoint. They must leave NATO at that stage. A core state is much more than an economy. Not friends, you need followers in order to become a core state. More than Somalia or Libya is needed. Alienating Arabs will not be helpful either.

Leaving NATO is too early for now. It gives Turkey a levarage.

 

[Old School]

Leaving NATO is too early for now. It gives Turkey a levarage.

That is understandable but they will have do it at some stage in the future to seal their credibility. NATO is the mortal enemy of Islam, the old crusaders in new clothing. It is impossible to be the core Muslim state and a NATO member at the same time. Islamic civilization is also the biggest ideological enemy of NATO as they can easily buy out other rivals for trade benefits.

 

[Timur]

Alienating Arabs

the alianting is coming from gulf.. you miss one point:

there is a big support for SA and their minions from west.. they will do anything to undermine and work against this to happen.. for SA Turkey is a worst case scenario because a Turkey/Egypt/Tunesia/Algeria axis is something that would make them meaningless.. specially egypt plays a key role and they managed to keep her brutally down..

I dont think pakistan will step out of their minion role for quite a lot of time.. they need to evolve and break through "the current affairs"

making muslim world great again.

I dont think that is not gonna happen with flowers.. history shows us you need a strong man and strong soildiers.. man ppl run away when they heared what a big army is coming to fight selahaddin.. also the ottomans are great excample of this..

also most called muslim states are not much muslim.. they are depended and being ruled by outside forces some of them are vassal states, some of them are poor and others are depended and infiltrated..

the thing is ppl wont let leave their wealth for a dream.. or can you imagine a muslim state which dont give much value to wealth and spend the money in fe sebilillah? a woman who wont see the restaurant 4 month and will not complain? a man never driving a bmw? not the sweet little house with flowers araound it and decorated in a sweet manner inside? most ppl are not giving these things up specially if they have to to get :

making muslim world great again.

 

[Old School]

the alianting is coming from gulf.. you miss one point:

there is a big support for SA and their minions from west.. they will do anything to undermine and work against this to happen.. for SA Turkey is a worst case scenario because a Turkey/Egypt/Tunesia/Algeria axis is something that would make them meaningless.. specially egypt plays a key role and they managed to keep her brutally down..

I dont think pakistan will step out of their minion role for quite a lot of time.. they need to evolve and break through "the current affairs"




I dont think that is not gonna happen with flowers.. history shows us you need a strong man and strong soildiers.. man ppl run away when they heared what a big army is coming to fight selahaddin.. also the ottomans are great excample of this..

also most called muslim states are not much muslim.. they are depended and being ruled by outside forces some of them are vassal states, some of them are poor and others are depended and infiltrated..

the thing is ppl wont let leave their wealth for a dream.. or can you imagine a muslim state which dont give much value to wealth and spend the money in fe sebilillah? a woman who wont see the restaurant 4 month and will not complain? a man never driving a bmw? not the sweet little house with flowers araound it and decorated in a sweet manner inside? most ppl are not giving these things up specially if they have to to get :

That is why I proposed ideological shifts. Muslims were richer than the west in term of luxury at some point in the past. Islam does not preach people to become poor. Islam is the right synthesis between capitalism and socialism. Nothing is wrong in being an ideologically strong Muslim and rich at the same time. However, that is not going to be achieved by being minions of the west and their local useful idiots.

 

[rajvoSa]

It was a sorta a joke, playing with Trumps idiotic slogan.

But I do agree with you premise that it will need some bold action, maybe even kinetic like in Syria and Libya. And the one country being on front of it, Turkey, is noticed by others in the muslim world. Majority of muslims arent from Gulf penincila. Even among Gulf countries, Qatar, Kuwat also didnt joing the UAE-Saudi axis, TSK small base just opened there few months back. Oman is buying turkish military systems.

 

[Deliorman]

Those concepts like “West” or “Muslim World” are absolutely idiotic and oversimplified considering how many different nations are put in the same basket.

What does a Greek have in common with a Dutch or a Canadian? Or what about a Tajik with someone from Somalia or a Bosniak with someone from Bangladesh or Indonesia... other than a common religion (needless to say how many different schools and branches and understandings on it you have etc) they have absolutely nothing else in common.

The so called Muslim world is too big and diverse for it to have a single state that leads it. It neither has a state with the financial, military and soft power to do so. Most Muslim majority states are a mess and should first stop complaining about the evil Westerners sabotaging them and concentrate on improving and development.

Turks from the Western parts of the country have much more in common with the people of the Balkans and the Mediterranean than they do with Arabs or Afghans or Malays etc. On the other hand many people living closer to Syria or Iraq have more in common with the people living on the other side of the border than they do with the people of the Balkans or the Mediterranean. People living around Kars, Ardahan, Artvin etc have more in common with the Caucasus nations etc and etc.

Turkey is and have always been a mix and a bridge between the East and the West and is a very diverse country. Turkey is a part of Europe and the Balkans and it is a part of the Middle East, a part of the Caucasus region, a part of the Black Sea and Mediterranean, a part of the Turkic World no matter if you guys like it or not.

 

[Ansu fati]

Turkey is already leading the muslim world by showing them how you can be MUSLIM modern democratic state successful with large industrial economy
Turkish tv series and turkish honest(brave) attitude towards Kashmir/Palestine/East Turkistan/syrian refugees are one of the most important effective soft power tools which give very big influence to Turkey over fellow muslim states
We should also mention military cooperation
There are many ongoing projects between turkey and other muslim states(pakistan indonesia qatar bangladesh tunisia etc)
I think for the muslim world it’s more effective/beneficial if other states follow Turkey’s path

 

[Nein]

Those concepts like “West” or “Muslim World” are absolutely idiotic and oversimplified considering how many different nations are put in the same basket.

What does a Greek have in common with a Dutch or a Canadian? Or what about a Tajik with someone from Somalia or a Bosniak with someone from Bangladesh or Indonesia... other than a common religion (needless to say how many different schools and branches and understandings on it you have etc) they have absolutely nothing else in common.

The so called Muslim world is too big and diverse for it to have a single state that leads it. It neither has a state with the financial, military and soft power to do so. Most Muslim majority states are a mess and should first stop complaining about the evil Westerners sabotaging them and concentrate on improving and development.

Turks from the Western parts of the country have much more in common with the people of the Balkans and the Mediterranean than they do with Arabs or Afghans or Malays etc. On the other hand many people living closer to Syria or Iraq have more in common with the people living on the other side of the border than they do with the people of the Balkans or the Mediterranean. People living around Kars, Ardahan, Artvin etc have more in common with the Caucasus nations etc and etc.

Turkey is and have always been a mix and a bridge between the East and the West and is a very diverse country. Turkey is a part of Europe and the Balkans and it is a part of the Middle East, a part of the Caucasus region, a part of the Black Sea and Mediterranean, a part of the Turkic World no matter if you guys like it or not.

This post basically sticks a fork into the dirty lies of the Greeks and Armenians who still cant hack it that Turkey is what it is today due to 900 years of history.

Greeks and Armenians treat it as if Turkey was formed like it was yesterday.

I see Turkey as a mosaic of everything.west and Muslim world have always been simplified. It is said the word Islamic World or the Muslim world is actually eurocentric term because people think Muslims are a monolithic society which is not true due to language, culture, customs, values also religious wise.

 

[Bismarck]

I dont have a subscription. Bezos is the richest man, tho.

You don’t need a subscription.
Maybe he is not the richest (he gives up apart of his wealth), but rich and influential enough, that his words has some saying in this world. I can really advise you to read the article.

that is a fault and totally wrong.. there may be a core of ppl for whom this is right but for the major masses forget it! money talks.. as we see today in SA I give SA more chances today because they have a better money flow and pay nations.. their newly found libarism will triple double their efforts..

if Turkey manages to have more money, be more selfsufficient and can stand infront of big players that it will turn because of that and not because only of ideology.. with money we will than have more "friends" who would stand against SA and their minions and paid minions..

This is explained in the article I have posted.