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The Huntington Thesis and Turkey's New Role

Secular nationalists of Muslim countries are going to have a very difficult time in public places in coming days. The time is against them and the western liberalism is dead. All they are going to have is the internet.
 
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Secular nationalists of Muslim countries are going to have a very difficult time in public places in coming days. The time is against them and the western liberalism is dead. All they are going to have is the internet.


Secular nationalists =/= western liberalism

Please stop associating the two with each other. Secular nationalists built the greatest nations in modern times. Western liberalism is a cancerous ideology that is funded by Jews.

If you think secular nationalists are the same as liberals then I will think that all Muslims ate radicals.


The secularist military in the 80s and 90s used to punish gays heavily and they were not allowed into the military. Recently, under Erdoğan's rule, gays were allowed into the military. Hooray for Islamism.... :disagree:

AKP is joke.
 
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Secular nationalists =/= western liberalism

Please stop associating the two with each other. Secular nationalists built the greatest nations in modern times. Western liberalism is a cancerous ideology that is funded by Jews.

If you think secular nationalists are the same as liberals then I will think that all Muslims ate radicals.


The secularist military in the 80s and 90s used to punish gays heavily and they were not allowed into the military. Recently, under Erdoğan's rule, gays were allowed into the military. Hooray for Islamism.... :disagree:

AKP is joke.

AKP will further evolve when Erdogan is gone.
Secular nationalists =/= western liberalism

Please stop associating the two with each other. Secular nationalists built the greatest nations in modern times. Western liberalism is a cancerous ideology that is funded by Jews.

If you think secular nationalists are the same as liberals then I will think that all Muslims ate radicals.


The secularist military in the 80s and 90s used to punish gays heavily and they were not allowed into the military. Recently, under Erdoğan's rule, gays were allowed into the military. Hooray for Islamism.... :disagree:

AKP is joke.

Secular nationalism and western liberalism are two different things. However, they have some strategic alliance when it comes to tackle Islamists. Traditionally, NATO prefers the secular nationalists over the Islamists.
 
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The only country where Islam and nationalism together define a country amongst Muslim countries, is Pakistan...Otherwise all the major Muslim nations have their own sense of nationalism and culture which will be prioritized by their people.
 
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It's been awhile since I read his book and I have a copy of it at home as well.

All though the Muslim World has many nations, tribes and borders but he defines them as one block -- because in the Western mindset they do not distinguish who's who for them your Muslim and that's it. We are seeing in Europe and US they are redefining themselves as Christians. You just have to look at statements from Hungary PM for example saying, no immigrants because it dilutes the Christianity of the country and Europe.

Huntington goes on to define the world below:

1) Christians World (US & EU)
2) Muslims World (Arabs & Non Arabs)
3) Africans (Aligned with Arabs & Non Arabs and with Christian World)
4) South Americans (Aligned with Christian World)
5) Asian (Confucius Block)
6) Hindus (Aligned with Christians)

The Christian World as a whole is a preeminent power of the world in Economics, Military and Socially (exporting their culture). In a sense they have established themselves as the central working of the world. They have a majority over the world not due to population but control every sector of the working world.

The Muslim World though huge in population compared to the West lacks any levers of power because cohesion is not their, and they never unite around their central beliefs of Islam. They do not have an industrial base to build the next level technology and no strong R&D budget worth mentioning.

Example Pakistan being a Nuclear Power for example doesn't have a military that can properly take on even a single European nation. It has shown it's own weakness by not even preventing drone attacks on its soil and this prompted a neighboring country to become bold and attempt their on strike. Even then we failed to deliver a decisive blow by take out other jets that were locked on and destroying their ammo depots.

The Muslim World is a tragedy after the 4 Khalifahs for it to even have survived up to it's present form is a miracle none the less.

Not going into much detail as time doesn't permit me the Muslim World is surrounded from all sides and it's just waiting to get steam rolled, even Turkey being NATO or not would be sucked into this as well. Their only use in NATO was to be a bulwark against USSR, with USSR gone and Russia in it's pathetic state the West doesn't need Turkey.
 
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It's been awhile since I read his book and I have a copy of it at home as well.

All though the Muslim World has many nations, tribes and borders but he defines them as one block -- because in the Western mindset they do not distinguish who's who for them your Muslim and that's it. We are seeing in Europe and US they are redefining themselves as Christians. You just have to look at statements from Hungary PM for example saying, no immigrants because it dilutes the Christianity of the country and Europe.

Huntington goes on to define the world below:

1) Christians World (US & EU)
2) Muslims World (Arabs & Non Arabs)
3) Africans (Aligned with Arabs & Non Arabs and with Christian World)
4) South Americans (Aligned with Christian World)
5) Asian (Confucius Block)
6) Hindus (Aligned with Christians)

The Christian World as a whole is a preeminent power of the world in Economics, Military and Socially (exporting their culture). In a sense they have established themselves as the central working of the world. They have a majority over the world not due to population but control every sector of the working world.

The Muslim World though huge in population compared to the West lacks any levers of power because cohesion is not their, and they never unite around their central beliefs of Islam. They do not have an industrial base to build the next level technology and no strong R&D budget worth mentioning.

Example Pakistan being a Nuclear Power for example doesn't have a military that can properly take on even a single European nation. It has shown it's own weakness by not even preventing drone attacks on its soil and this prompted a neighboring country to become bold and attempt their on strike. Even then we failed to deliver a decisive blow by take out other jets that were locked on and destroying their ammo depots.

The Muslim World is a tragedy after the 4 Khalifahs for it to even have survived up to it's present form is a miracle none the less.

Not going into much detail as time doesn't permit me the Muslim World is surrounded from all sides and it's just waiting to get steam rolled, even Turkey being NATO or not would be sucked into this as well. Their only use in NATO was to be a bulwark against USSR, with USSR gone and Russia in it's pathetic state the West doesn't need Turkey.


It is human behavior to identify themselves with a granular identity of his own...In world forum, You are a Muslim.In Muslim forum , you are Pakistani person..In Pakistan, you may be from some states...list goes on till you are defining yourself as your own...
The bigger discussion should be about how some one should identify national behaviour...If Islam is the identity, then why nation states are created between different Islamic nations??
 
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AKP will further evolve when Erdogan is gone.


Secular nationalism and western liberalism are two different things. However, they have some strategic alliance when it comes to tackle Islamists. Traditionally, NATO prefers the secular nationalists over the Islamists.

AKP will dissolve when Erdogan is gone, he is the only reason why people vote for AKP.

You talk like you know Turkish Politics, but you don't we have a lot of examples in Turkey how political parties rised and then became history very fast.
 
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AKP will dissolve when Erdogan is gone, he is the only reason why people vote for AKP.

You talk like you know Turkish Politics, but you don't we have a lot of examples in Turkey how political parties rised and then became history very fast.

AKP is not a conventional Turkish party. Secular Nationalists could not do anything to AKP for the last 10 year. AKP is there to stay. They will wipe out the secularists from Turkey.
 
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It is human behavior to identify themselves with a granular identity of his own...In world forum, You are a Muslim.In Muslim forum , you are Pakistani person..In Pakistan, you may be from some states...list goes on till you are defining yourself as your own...
The bigger discussion should be about how some one should identify national behaviour...If Islam is the identity, then why nation states are created between different Islamic nations??

@Kaniska you posed a good question. Nation states was a relatively new concept after WWI, I will say it was an ideology created and installed by declining Western Powers of the world at the time. From my studies about this subject the Western Powers feared with their declining power if those colonial nations rose, they would want to exact revenge. The solution was dividing these groups of people and install a flag and identity so collectively they could never pose a threat and are easily controllable factors in global politics. Muslims united created a formidable threat not just militarily but economically and population wise and most of all we had strategic depth.

The Ottoman Empire was the biggest example before it became the sick man and/or collapse it challenged Western supremacy and collectively Muslims held their own irrespective of tribal and cultural differences in its vast territory. I will even go a step further and say the Ottoman’s even administered between different sects much better – before Iraq was carved out of the Ottoman Empire they divided the territory of history Iraq into 3 semi-autonomous regions (Kurds, Sunni and Shia) as long they recognized and supported the Empire they were free to govern themselves, and the governor answered to the King.

What people fail to understand the planning was meticulous to divide the Muslim World the War Council hired the services of such people like Gertrude Bell (majority of the people I bet even on this forum never heard her name) who wrote the report that was central to dividing Muslims among ethic, cultural and tribal lands and most importantly using inner rivalries and supporting one group over the other to accomplish their goals. The likes of T.E. Lawrence were nothing, but figures people could rally around – what happened behind the scenes crafting of strategy and division was the real story in creating these nation states and installing Kings in Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.

Note: Gertrude Bell and others knew that problems would persist with these new borders she helped create but in the long scheme of things it wouldn't matter because if they stay divided its much easier to control.

If given a free choice to the Muslim World and those foreign installed governments didn't interference or repress people, Muslims would slowly gravitate towards creating a Caliphate. Other issue right now is the West arming groups that would attack civilians and disrupt these sorts of plans. Vast majority of these groups on Muslim land are foreign funded and sponsored by people sitting in London and DC.
 
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@Kaniska you posed a good question. Nation states was a relatively new concept after WWI, I will say it was an ideology created and installed by declining Western Powers of the world at the time. From my studies about this subject the Western Powers feared with their declining power if those colonial nations rose, they would want to exact revenge. The solution was dividing these groups of people and install a flag and identity so collectively they could never pose a threat and are easily controllable factors in global politics. Muslims united created a formidable threat not just militarily but economically and population wise and most of all we had strategic depth.

The Ottoman Empire was the biggest example before it became the sick man and/or collapse it challenged Western supremacy and collectively Muslims held their own irrespective of tribal and cultural differences in its vast territory. I will even go a step further and say the Ottoman’s even administered between different sects much better – before Iraq was carved out of the Ottoman Empire they divided the territory of history Iraq into 3 semi-autonomous regions (Kurds, Sunni and Shia) as long they recognized and supported the Empire they were free to govern themselves, and the governor answered to the King.

What people fail to understand the planning was meticulous to divide the Muslim World the War Council hired the services of such people like Gertrude Bell (majority of the people I bet even on this forum never heard her name) who wrote the report that was central to dividing Muslims among ethic, cultural and tribal lands and most importantly using inner rivalries and supporting one group over the other to accomplish their goals. The likes of T.E. Lawrence were nothing, but figures people could rally around – what happened behind the scenes crafting of strategy and division was the real story in creating these nation states and installing Kings in Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.

If given a free choice to the Muslim World and those foreign installed governments didn't interference or repress people, Muslims would slowly gravitate towards creating a Caliphate. Other issue right now is the West arming groups that would attack civilians and disrupt these sorts of plans. Vast majority of these groups on Muslim land are foreign funded and sponsored by people sitting in London and DC.
It was far easier for the western powers to give a flag and national anthem to a so called nation state while ruling it through their local loyal elites with great degree of connections with the imperialist powers. Hence we get all the dictators and hybrid quasi democratic authoritarian regimes. Western powers simply did not have the manpower and resources to maintain colonial outposts in those days. The ex communist eastern European nations are nothing better. They all have to report to Brussels for the subsidies they receive to pay their farmers , bureaucrats and infrastructure projects.
Most agents provocateurs such as ISIS and AQ are funded by london, DC, Paris and Moscow.
 
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AKP is a secular party. socialy consertvative, economicly center.
Age of old Empires/Chaliphate is over. They are now better more just ways to organize, akin to EU for exmpl-.
AKP is a crony capitalist party but they are paving the way for something better than the seculars. Secularist hegemony is dead in Turkey forever , believe it or not.
 
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AKP is a crony capitalist party but they are paving the way for something better than the seculars. Secularist hegemony is dead in Turkey forever , believe it or not.

I think in terms of probably the pro western section of the Secularist parties and ideologies is dead but I dont see the future for Islamism in Turkey either what I see is Turkey is becoming more towards the Eurasian sphere than in the western sphere Erdogan will retire in a few years he is getting unpopular among the Turkish public the biggest winners in Turkish politics will be the Eurasianists and Turkish nationalists MHP
 
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I think in terms of probably the pro western section of the Secularist parties and ideologies is dead but I dont see the future for Islamism in Turkey either what I see is Turkey is becoming more towards the Eurasian sphere than in the western sphere Erdogan will retire in a few years he is getting unpopular among the Turkish public the biggest winners in Turkish politics will be the Eurasianists and Turkish nationalists MHP
An uncircumcised pork eating Eurasian whether it is a Russian or chinese is never going to be a true friend of muslims. Any learned Muslim is aware of this fact. Eurasianism is a transitional stage. Muslim identity is the destination.
Secular Turkish nationalists have no future.
 
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An uncircumcised pork eating Eurasian whether it is a Russian or chinese is never going to be a true friend of muslims. Any learned Muslim is aware of this fact. Eurasianism is a transitional stage. Muslim identity is the destination.

Perharps I am Talking Turkey could be leading front if it plays its cards right I look at it a process and a stage

At the present moment Muslim nations should welcome Eurasianism for a moment the Atantists Globalism has failed to help us but I see Muslim countries like Iran and Turkey as periphery of that and take advantage of that just need to play cards right
 
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