The hot reality of India’s Cold Start Doctrine

[Viny]

"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy." - German Field Marshall Moltke the Elder

Pakistan's mobilization time is less than 18 hours, that is for our full scale mobilization. Pakistan can muster a counter offensive to obliterate the 50,000 strong Indian Integrated Battle Groups as well as opening up multiple fronts on the border to capture and hold Indian territory, give a go ahead to our proxies in India to start operations inside the Indian heartland. Upping the ante is either going to force India to declare a full scale war with Pakistan which is all but likely to bring PLA into the battlefield and might end in a full scale nuclear exchange resulting in over one billion people dead or it would have to accept the oxymoronic nature of a 'limited war' and withdraw from the battlefield having gained nothing but successfully driving out foreign investors from India fearing instability which most definitely will cost India billions of dollars of investment it needs.

If capabilities only mattered in this world North Korea could have changed things long back.
Sorry to say, but when was last time PLA came for Pakistan?
Nuclear War is not going to happen, please rise above that myth. Although nuclear terrorism can result into larger fallouts.

Gone are days when for an operation full body anesthesia where given, science has advanced and now local anesthesia is very much available. Same has happened in the world of managing security.

Finally I am sure you also know the reality of mobilization time if not please check infrastructure.

 

[MKC]

India has been constructing massive new airfields and bases, a wide rail and road communication network has been laid down to facilitate swift mobilisation, new logistic installations

Oh, you mean we are building infrastructures for war(you mean you are not building because you don't want war), we are not Pakistan, as Pakistan spends just 10B dollar on all developmental projects, for your knowledge, infrastructure around border area is very less in India & each country want to build infrastructure everywhere.
At least in last 10 years, a single new airfield hasn't built in any state bordering Pakistan, land acquisition itself isn't easy in India.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

Its not a bluff, every single military advisor to the US president has said Pakistan will use nuclear weapons if India decides to enter any pakistani territory and world opinion will be in their favour as they are the ones being attacked.

And why will India attack first untill there is some terrorist attack originating from Pakistan like Mumbai killing hundreds of innocent civillians. Even then will world consider India aggressor? Answer is No

 

[third eye]

You are no USA, you are a 3rd world country

no one in the west cares about India to be frankly honest. Maybe in a few years they will once India becomes economically strong

mumbai happened and other then Indians no one gave a dam hoot about it. Infact over the years every time India has bought up Pakistan involvement the US government has turned around and told you guys Pakistan has suffered more at the hands of terrorist then India.

It does not matter if a nation is 3rd or 4th world.

It does not matter to Indians either if the west cares or not. We have our own domestic agenda to attend & thats what we are doing.

As regards Mumbai, read the line above. Meanwhile, you are entitled to your views

 

[Stephen Cohen]

We first have to go back and study how Moughals defeated Indians. Though the weapons have changed, the war strategies and philosophies remain identical.

That time the Indian Hindu soldiers were ONLY fighting for their respective kings
Loyalties changed very quickly

There was NO concept of Nationhood or nationalism that time

Once Indians became ONE nation ; the result is the HUGE Indian Army in front of You

 

[MKC]

We first have to go back and study how Moughals defeated Indians. Though the weapons have changed, the war strategies and philosophies remain identical.

The Buddhist concept of Ahimsa did a great harm to the martial spirit of the Hindus. It made the Hindus timid and peace-loving.
http://www.historydiscussion.net/hi...-success-of-the-turks-against-the-rajput/2644
http://www.shareyouressays.com/1146...f-the-defeat-of-the-rajputs-by-muhammad-ghori

 

[cerberus]

Its not a bluff, every single military advisor to the US president has said Pakistan will use nuclear weapons if India decides to enter any pakistani territory and world opinion will be in their favour as they are the ones being attacked.

Most absurd statement I heard that why I call it bluff
Pakistan only leverage is there nukes and there sole foreign policy depends on it
They physiologically used this as tool against democratic nation because they now it's reservations and physce may it US or India

I bet if there will be a military regime in India at this moment. Pakistan will the first one to hug India in line

 

[HRK]

There was NO concept of Nationhood or nationalism that time

Once Indians became ONE nation ; the result is the HUGE Indian Army in front of You

Sorry for an off-topic comment ....

so mean to say the sense of 'Nationhood or Nationalism' in India is quite a recent thing have no historical background as No Such Nation was ever existed .... ???

once again sorry for an off-topic comment ....

 

[Khafee]

@Horus @Umair Nawaz @HRK and other respectable members: There are two things working against "Cold start"

1) Indian Politicians - Any confrontation with Pakistan resulting in more than a bloody nose would end their careers. The economy would nose dive, resulting in the business tycoons withdrawing their support, leaving them up .........creek without a paddle.

2) Indian Armed Forces - Unlike clueless fanboys, they are fully aware of the repercussions. Being slapped around by Pakistan, would be more than an embarrassment for them, the myth of their invincibility would come tumbling down like a house of cards, and no amount of PR would be able to fix that.

 

[zebra7]

We first have to go back and study how Moughals defeated Indians. Though the weapons have changed, the war strategies and philosophies remain identical.

LOLZ Moughals first defeated the Pakistani, first before they defeated the Indians.
The war strategies and philosophies of the Moughals remains identical, and therefore India should open a front from the same route from where Moughals launched the attack in the Punjab region, in order to defeat the Mighty Pakistan.

1) Indian Politicians - Any confrontation with Pakistan resulting in more than a bloody nose would end their careers. The economy would nose dive, resulting in the business tycoons withdrawing their support, leaving them up .........creek without a paddle.

India have fought couple of war with Pakistan and one war with China. Which Indian Politicians have end up his/her carrier, or have to resign ? Janab pls name few of them ??

2) Indian Armed Forces - Unlike clueless fanboys, they are fully aware of the repercussions. Being slapped around by Pakistan, would be more than an embarrassment for them, the myth of their invincibility would come tumbling down like a house of cards, and no amount of PR would be able to fix that.

Indian Army is a professional Army, and is considered as highly professional, trained, and disciplined. They know there role very well, and one of the reason for the success of the Democracy in India, and follows the Civil leadership orders unlike few armies, that is ruling the country.

Does Indian Army care for any PR for the humanitarian and during crisis work they have done, and the service they have given to the country.

In short for you. Your statement does not look good for the title you bore with you. Kindly refrain yourself from making such statements. Nor you are a Pakistani, nor I don't want to return the same favour to you with words.

 

[ravi gupta]

Contrary to My Analysis It will be End The Pakistan Nuclear Bluff Once For All Ultimately It will Break the Morale Of Public In Pakistan Because in This Modern Edge ISPR Propaganda Will Not Work Like in 1971 When Pakistan Population Caught By Surprise

It will a Blow to Pakistani Nuclear Cover that they are to Chicken to Face India In Direct Conflict.Hell Why Blame them Any Rational And Smart Army will Do the Same Facing Superior Enemy

As For Chinese they are Pure Businessman(That's What I Like In them Most) Stay out From the Situation Like in the Past They Not Emotional Like People of Indian Subcontinent They are Smart People

TC
Cerberus

Your analysis is exactly right.
1)Moral of public will be down,as INDIA will give massive blow in 24 to 48 hrs.
2)China will not interfere while he will try to meditate for peace.
3)It will also blow to Pakistan nuclear umbrella cover.

However said that during this times extremist and pak army will take over the civilian government and there will be chaos is the country.That instability is not good for INDIA ,and that may be the reason we are not very much interested.
As of now there army is busy in insurgency in three province they are already in some sort of war at home.Y we need to interfere and unite them against there common enemy.
Lets wait and watch the situation,lets why go for war even for short duration when we are gearing up our economy and modernizing our armed forces,and be ready for any stupidity across the border.

 

[Gufi]

Contrary to My Analysis It will be End The Pakistan Nuclear Bluff Once For All Ultimately It will Break the Morale Of Public In Pakistan Because in This Modern Edge ISPR Propaganda Will Not Work Like in 1971 When Pakistan Population Caught By Surprise

It will a Blow to Pakistani Nuclear Cover that they are to Chicken to Face India In Direct Conflict.Hell Why Blame them Any Rational And Smart Army will Do the Same Facing Superior Enemy

As For Chinese they are Pure Businessman(That's What I Like In them Most) Stay out From the Situation Like in the Past They Not Emotional Like People of Indian Subcontinent They are Smart People

TC

writing in bold or larger fonts does not make your point any better
so you are playing chicken with a country which hates your guts.... honestly you think the money spent on r n d and production of missiles is for fun or show? I think you need to rethink your analysis
and superior enemy... unless superior is the same army which manages to lose soldiers in training.... the quicker the Indian public moves away from their complexes and treats other nations as equals there will be a change
Stereotyping much, Chinese businessmen.... their interest is in India being a weak little nation..probably seems like something simple to understand but then again the superior enemy is very slow at understanding it seems

War would be in retaliation / reaction to a terrorist action like Mumbai .

When the US troops entered Iraq who was the attacker & was world opinion against the coalition forces ?

you will start it, but it will end on our terms
Under the new doctrine, Russia continues to develop and modernize its nuclear capability. "Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it or its allies, and also in case of aggression against Russia with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is threatened."[11]
Use of nuclear weapons, when a main battle line breaks with the strategic depth Pakistan has is enough to trigger nuclear war. I posted Russian military doctrine because maybe you can understand that nations like Russia have this clause in their doctrine... maybe that should clue you in...
if not ask @DESERT FIGHTER he is better at explaining these things in simple terms which are understandable

 

[wiseone2]

We first have to go back and study how Moughals defeated Indians. Though the weapons have changed, the war strategies and philosophies remain identical.

Moghuls defeated rulers of small Indian kingdoms. They never dealt with a state of India's size and population.

 

[cerberus]

writing in bold or larger fonts does not make your point any better
so you are playing chicken with a country which hates your guts.... honestly you think the money spent on r n d and production of missiles is for fun or show? I think you need to rethink your analysis

Sir With Due respect you are No Different Either.Rather Pointing out My Signature I Would Have been Happier if you countered My Arguments With Some Content

And Yes I Knw Why Missile's are Being Developed ,They Final Deterrent or Last Counter to Outcome of war.
But Unlike Many Nations Pakistan Policy Always Being Using This Deter-ant as Both Physiological & Political Tool Against Democratic nations.
Unlike Pakistan Which a De-facto Militaristic Regime Democratic Nation's Have Some Political & Civil Compulsions & Pakistan Policy Always Been to Feed on this Compulsions And Escape

But this Policy ultimately Uncovers Pakistan's Fear of Being Undermined By World Community Due to its Bad State Policies And Crippled Economy. Also Fear of Widened Gap Between Pakistan & Indian Conventionally.

So Flaunting Nukes as Tool Is Last Weapon Pakistan has to Maintain Its Relevance in Current Geopolitics

unless superior is the same army which manages to lose soldiers in training.... the quicker the Indian public moves away from their complexes and treats other nations as equals there will be a change

Every Army Losses its Solider in Training Its Not India Problem alone but Every Modern armies Face this challenge

Royal British Army
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-1-in-20-troop-deaths-happen-in-training.html
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/125-milita...ng-exercise-past-15-years-mod-reveals-1512049
US Army
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93854&page=1

China
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/965...of-students-in-china-leads-to-clashes-deaths/

Stereotyping much, Chinese businessmen.... their interest is in India being a weak little nation..probably seems like something simple to understand but then again the superior enemy is very slow at understanding it seems

Its Not Opinion But History Tells It Chinese are Pure Business Men Remember Kargil It Chinese Intelligence Who Leaked Gen Musharraf & Gen Aziz Leaked Phone Calls To Indian Authorities

 

[Gufi]

So Flaunting Nukes as Tool Is Last Weapon Pakistan has to Maintain Its Relevance in Current Geopolitics

Never flaunts them with any nation other then India, actually manages quite well without any issues with most of the world... Never discusses nuclear weapons until others come and discuss them... quietly is making deterrents as it sees troops building up for some exercise or the other
It is a military strategy when you are faced with increasing number to hold your line then wipe out the columns behind to remove any supplies or reinforcements... Tactical nucs do that job and when the main line breaks they will come into play. Russia and its policy against overwhelming conventional arms should clue you in that it is a proper military decision but that would be admitting that war would lead to nuclear war and that would be against what you said earlier so you shall keep arguing .

Every Army Losses its Solider in Training Its Not India Problem alone but Every Modern armies Face this challenge

but it was a superior army -.- thus one should choose words wisely

Its Not Opinion But History Tells It Chinese are Pure Business Men Remember Kargil It Chinese Intelligence Who Leaked Gen Musharraf & Gen Aziz Leaked Phone Calls To Indian Authorities

honestly, Kargil was ions ago when India was not aligning with the USA, nor was India challenging China on the South China Sea or continuously talking about targeting China with its new missiles. Times change as policies change, and now China and India are further apart then ever before.