The Horror's of the Taliban

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If you certainly welcome such a inhuman group of people and if the country is ready to take such a group as its allies, then it definitely reeks of hypocrisy. It would not take much time for someone to deduce that Pakistan territory is a breeding ground for LeT and the likes of it, as long as it does not pose a threat internally to Pakistan. It is the same kind of Suicide bombers who brought Mumbai to its knees on several times and halted it for 5 long days with that gun battle. The same kind of militants who attacked the Parliament. What you said amounts to Pakistan supporting any kind of criminal activity as long it is least bothered. This also reflects the mentality of the people. Isnt it?

You did not understand my point then.

We don't give a crap what the word thinks when our nation is under assault from an external threat, very likely an existential threat. At that moment in time we will ally ourselves with whomever wants to help us fight that external threat, and not fight us.

Its quite simple really. And quite frankly, many of the Taliban could be put to excellent use along the LoC with PA support, given the training and tactics on display in combat with the PA in FATA, in case of hostilities with India.

However, so long as India does not threaten Pakistan, we will continue to (and should) address the threat from extremism including the Taliban.

 

[donrahul]

You did not understand my point then.

We don't give a crap what the word thinks when our nation is under assault from an external threat, very likely an existential threat. At that moment in time we will ally ourselves with whomever wants to help us fight that external threat, and not fight us.

Its quite simple really. And quite frankly, many of the Taliban could be put to excellent use along the LoC with PA support, given the training and tactics on display in combat with the PA in FATA, in case of hostilities with India.

However, so long as India does not threaten Pakistan, we will continue (and should) address the threat from extremism including the Taliban.

Academically speaking, wouldnt it also mean that the country is bound to try to align itself with malignant elements, just to destroy an enemy(without outright provocation) using covert means/infiltrations like delhi/Mumbai/Kashmir attacks?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Academically speaking, wouldnt it also mean that the country is bound to try to align itself with malignant elements, just to destroy an enemy(without outright provocation) using covert means/infiltrations like delhi/Mumbai/Kashmir attacks?

No - because an alliance with the Taliban would only occur when hostilities with India were imminent, such as in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks.

Before the Mumbai attacks, our forces had been focussed on the Taliban, and reports of 'allying with the taliban' only came about at the height of Indo-pak tensions.

Since then, while the relationship is still not 'normal', tensions are down and the threat of military aggression by India has receded, and you see that the PA is on the offensive against the Taliban in Bajaur, MOhmand (recent expansion of the military operations), Khyber and Swat.

Beyond that our usage of 'proxies' has been limited to the disputed territory of kashmir, and that front has been very quiet for several years now from our side (active Pakistani support that is).

 

[donrahul]

No - because an alliance with the Taliban would only occur when hostilities with India were imminent, such as in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks.

Before the Mumbai attacks, our forces had been focussed on the Taliban, and reports of 'allying with the taliban' only came about at the height of Indo-pak tensions.

Since then, while the relationship is still not 'normal', tensions are down and the threat of military aggression by India has receded, and you see that the PA is on the offensive against the Taliban in Bajaur, MOhmand (recent expansion of the military operations), Khyber and Swat.

Beyond that our usage of 'proxies' has been limited to the disputed territory of kashmir, and that front has been very quiet for several years now from our side (active Pakistani support that is).

Support to Kashmir Based groups, which is again LET and which is again suspected of all the aforementioned attacks or am i losing the thread somewhere? So PA is no less than America, which supposedly has let down its allies when the going got tough and when the Home turf was spoiled! The LeT are again recruiting suicide bombers from poor families. the very victims for whom you have been shedding tears for. no sarcasm here. Just pointing out some hometruths.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Support to Kashmir Based groups, which is again LET and which is again suspected of all the aforementioned attacks or am i losing the thread somewhere? So PA is no less than America, which supposedly has let down its allies when the going got tough and when the Home turf was spoiled! The LeT are again recruiting suicide bombers from poor families. the very victims for whom you have been shedding tears for. no sarcasm here. Just pointing out some hometruths.

Support to the LeT stopped in the aftermath of the parliament attacks - the senior LeT leadership themselves admitted that their operations became very hard to sustain once Pakistani support died off. They survived off unofficial local support.

Before the attacked civilians, I did not consider them a terrorist group, since they were fighting in disputed territory against Indian SF's occupying that territory. Nor do I consider any of the other groups that have not attacked civilians in Kashmir to be 'terrorists'.

And we are talking about Pakistan allying with the Taliban, under very specific circumstances, so I am not sure why you are digressing into this LeT stuff.

 

[donrahul]

Support to the LeT stopped in the aftermath of the parliament attacks - the senior LeT leadership themselves admitted that their operations became very hard to sustain once Pakistani support died off. They survived off unofficial local support.

Before the attacked civilians, I did not consider them a terrorist group, since they were fighting in disputed territory against Indian SF's occupying that territory. Nor do I consider any of the other groups that have not attacked civilians in Kashmir to be 'terrorists'.

And we are talking about Pakistan allying with the Taliban, under very specific circumstances, so I am not sure why you are digressing into this LeT stuff.

I guess the LeT werent angels before the Parliament Attack. Fidayeen squads attacking army camps is one thing, terrorists blowing up in public places is entirely another thing, which the LeT and other assorted movements are guilty of.

Irrespective of whether you consider them as terrorists or freedom fighters, Pakistan has had a role in aiding and abetting these organizations and the Taliban which you are facing at your western gates are similar to what the GoP had been raising against the RoI. and Do i need to say that GoP had actually supported the Taliban in Afghanistan when they were in power!

I gues u must see the connection now!!!! You are just facing a virile organization than the one which you had created. and giving any more support to them, irrespective of the situation is not going to help anyone in the long term..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Irrespective of whether you consider them as terrorists or freedom fighters, Pakistan has had a role in aiding and abetting these organizations and the Taliban which you are facing at your western gates are similar to what the GoP had been raising against the RoI. and Do i need to say that GoP had actually supported the Taliban in Afghanistan when they were in power!

I gues u must see the connection now!!!! You are just facing a virile organization than the one which you had created. and giving any more support to them, irrespective of the situation is not going to help anyone in the long term..

No I do not see the connection - as I have stated repeatedly, allying with the Taliban was to be for a specific period of hostilities with India. Whatever 'support' they woudl get would be for operations on the LoC and in Kashmir during that time of hostilities with India. These groups are already established in FATA and Afghanisatn, and they have tremendous resources of their own from the drug trade and smuggling, so there is little Pakistan would do to boost their capacity.

In fact, their capacity would only be decreased as men and resources from the Taliban are expended in fighting India, leaving them a weaker force to deal with afterwards - so at the end it is a win win for Pakistan.

 

[Kasrkin]

The Taliban of Afghanistan under Mullah Omar and the Taliban of Pakistan (TTP) under Betullah Mehsud are not the same. Far from it. Mullah Omar has openly distanced himself from the TTP and has discouraged their militant campaigns in Pakistan against the PA. This is what leads many Pakistanis to believe that an upstart like Betullah Mehsud may have strong covert backing from our enemies, and not the 'original' Taliban.

 

[ju87]

The Taliban of Afghanistan under Mullah Omar and the Taliban of Pakistan (TTP) under Betullah Mehsud are not the same. Far from it. Mullah Omar has openly distanced himself from the TTP and has discouraged their militant campaigns in Pakistan against the PA. This is what leads many Pakistanis to believe that an upstart like Betullah Mehsud may have strong covert backing from our enemies, and not the 'original' Taliban.

Whoa... this is new to me. May I get a link? Also, why would Mullah Omar oppose the TTP? The ideology is definitely the same and the same common enemy, US and the "infidel" govts in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Any thoughts?

 

[Kasrkin]

Hm, I'm surprised you didn't know this. But I'm afraid I don't have any links. I can only quote from articles. Dawn and other papers ran an extensive interview with Mullah Omar when he said we do not want or expect help and refuge from the Pakistani side. When further pressed by the Pakistani journalist about Pakistan and the violence here in the tribal areas, he said that his country had enough problems of its own and he didn't believe in interference. He also said he would not sanction attacks on the PA.

Furthermore later on in the news, and I remember this from a Janes article. Mullah Omar had openly tried to dismiss Betullah Mehsud of any authority or 'legitimacy' over the Taliban movement. Betullah in exchange said that Mullah Omar and his Taliban did not have any authority to dismiss him because they didn't appoint him in the first place. So the question arises who did? Mullah Omar all but made the Taliban, and all Taliban commanders in Afghanistan answer to him as the Leader of the Faithful. So the TTP or Pakistani Taliban are a different brand altogether and do not even recognize Mullah Omar's authority.

 

[hasang20]

you guys really dont know the difference between al-qaeda n Taliban uhh what a mess.

 

[roadrunner]

There's a foreign element to all this.

All of it in fact is foreign.

The war across the border is the problem.

It causes radicalization when drones are sent by some trigger happy yank looking to kill some mooooslems.

One needs to remember Swat Valley was never a radical stronghold.

It was in fact the most popular tourism destination in Pakistan before all this nonsense started going round.

 

[S-2]

Haven't seen PREDATOR in SWAT have you?

What explains all of this again?

 

[hasang20]

Haven't seen PREDATOR in SWAT have you?

What explains all of this again?

i seriously believe US forces are being pushed out of Afganistan haaha 72% of Kabul controlled by Taliban what a joke of the century

 

[roadrunner]

Haven't seen PREDATOR in SWAT have you?

What explains all of this again?

Swat is an area inhabited by Pashtun. There are ethnic bonds between the areas.

Look, can't you understand this?

If Canada was bombed by the Japs, lots of innocents were killed. Some Americans would be pretty angry about this.

If the Japs bombed Africa or Asia, you probably wouldn't care less.