The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[Thəorətic Muslim]

The North Koreans have that many tanks? 4000+ MBTs, 2200 APCs, 8000 artillery and 4800 multiple rocket launchers? Quite armed....

The N. Koreans probably dont have enough fuel to get those tanks across the border.

Do you happen to know how many tanks the PLA can muster in the Shenyang and Beijing Military Command to counter any North Korean Threat?

With the advent of the RPG, TOW, and other well designed Anti-Tank weapons be it infantry used or combined with Air Power the fear of a tank or even it's number doesn't strike fear as it used to back in WW1. Tanks are good for frontal assault, they are essentially a pillbox on wheels with a big gun. But without infantry, and air cover they are sitting ducks.

 

[Aepsilons]

With China's blossoming relationship with Seoul, both recently signed a FTA, the former's alliance with Pyongyang remains a barrier that will prevent austere cooperation between Beijing and Seoul. The threat of Pyongyang will necessitate the presence of the American Alliance.

 

[Genesis]

I agree with you that a formal security alliance is inconceivable, for two reasons:

1) What does China have to gain from such an alliance? China can never overtly support Russian separatist movements in Russian satellite states without inviting the same applied to its own peripheral territories (e.g. Xinjiang, Tibet). It's beyond belief that China would spend blood and treasure to defend Russian territory. At the same time, how could Russia possibly help China in any material way?

This I see no problem, we can easily have our cake and eat it too. We can support Russian advancing on Ukraine and the Tibetans and what not can just deal with it, cause guess what, while they are not completely happy with the government, name me one guy that is, they also don't hate it enough to separate.

The minority always scream the loudest.

Ask yourself a logical question, how likely are Tibetans to find happiness in India, knowing what India actually is.

2) Russia and China compete for influence with the other members of the SCO; Russia through its USSR links, China through its Silk Road links. There is more likely to be friction between the two over Central Asia than there would be joint interests elsewhere (China has very strong trade links with Europe that it would not risk harming on Russia's behalf; Russia has no reason to downgrade relations with the likes of India or Vietnam for the sake of ephemeral gains from China).

Moreover, they increasingly compete on the defense industry front, and they don't share the same historical outlook on the West. Once the CCP decides to switch the artificial narrative of how the US is trying to contain China to the reality that the US helped China in WWII against Japan, and favored China over the USSR from the 1970s onward, the unity of purpose between Russia and China crumbles.

This is something I agree and is often overlooked for stupid reasons, like the fact US don't like to share and hate anything not created by it.

China and US can do good for the world, China is all about the growth and in terms of rights, we are far closer to Gay marriage than even democratic countries. Reason is while not democratic, we are not religious, anything that doesn't effect development is cool with us.

While Russia and China actually have competing interests, I mean actual core interests like central Asia, Pacific is only very important, and hardly damaging to the US if lost. We won't build an great wall around Asia, cause we like your money.


If US can work it out with itself, that China's rise is going to happen whether you like it or not and that we are actually not an empire of evil, our friendship could be for the greater good.

 

[sicsheep]

Do you happen to know how many tanks the PLA can muster in the Shenyang and Beijing Military Command to counter any North Korean Threat?

The question is do we need tanks for Korean Peninsula? Any army try to use tanks in large formation is just asking to get wiped out, we have had artillery with smart anti-tank sub-munition for decades. they are designed to stop large armor columns even without air superiority. not to mention tactical nuke will be just as effective and much cheaper than maintaining 5000 tanks.

 

[Aepsilons]

The N. Koreans probably dont have enough fuel to get those tanks across the border.



With the advent of the RPG, TOW, and other well designed Anti-Tank weapons be it infantry used or combined with Air Power the fear of a tank or even it's number doesn't strike fear as it used to back in WW1. Tanks are good for frontal assault, they are essentially a pillbox on wheels with a big gun. But without infantry, and air cover they are sitting ducks.

The Norkors are a bane to everyone. I honestly doubt the Russians have the capability to address that military threat. China, I believe she can, but it would take time to mobilize her 5000 tank fleet to address them. Or the some 8000 artillery pieces the Norkors have at their disposal. This would render any Chinese offensive into North Korea a bloody one.

Let us not forget the Norkors possess nuclear capability....

 

[Aepsilons]

The question is do we need tanks for Korean Peninsula? Any army try to use tanks in large formation is just asking to get wiped out, we have had artillery with smart anti-tank sub-munition for decades. they are designed to stop large armor columns even without air superiority. not to mention tactical nuke will be just as effective and much cheaper than maintaining 5000 tanks.

Mobilizing an armed offensive into North Korea would take up most of the PLA's resources. The Norkors also have an impressive asymmetrical sub force. This would be a substantial threat to the North Sea Fleet of the PLAN.

 

[BDforever]

Mobilizing an armed offensive into North Korea would take up most of the PLA's resources. The Norkors also have an impressive asymmetrical sub force. This would be a substantial threat to the North Sea Fleet of the PLAN.

check what music you are listening thread

 

[Aepsilons]

check what music you are listening thread

We gonna dance together now?

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

The Norkors are a bane to everyone. I honestly doubt the Russians have the capability to address that military threat. China, I believe she can, but it would take time to mobilize her 5000 tank fleet to address them. Or the some 8000 artillery pieces the Norkors have at their disposal. This would render any Chinese offensive into North Korea a bloody one.
Let us not forget the Norkors possess nuclear capability....

The North Koreans now they have zero allies. Or zero ally. Any Nuclear Attack on China will mean complete decimation of North Korea. COMPLETE. North Korea is only a buffer state between China and South Korea. China can deal with either having a population between it and South Korea or just a waste land.

 

[TaiShang]

There is already a deep security cooperation. I do not see any reason as to why to give it a name and call it a formal alliance. The alliance is there and functioning well thus taking the formal step will unnecessarily elicit attention. Otherwise, the record of cooperation over the years already suggests a well-oiled security partnership. Especially with the Xi-Putin leadership, China and Russia have collaborated almost all international issues form the Arab Spring to Ukraine and to their respective territorial disputes with others.

Making hard military alliances is outdated and, in fact, outside the context of China's foreign policy formulation. Therefore, I do not ascribe the lack of a formal NATO-like alliance to a less important or less reliable partnership on security matters. I guess, on the issue of Ukraine, China and Russia showed more strategic alignment than between the EU and the US.

Russia does not recognize separatism inside China and China does not recognize separatism inside Russia. For China Chechen rebels are terrorists and for Russia, Uighur separatists are terrorists. The SCO is basically to provide a Central Asia-wide cooperation between the two nations. Central Asia, in my view, is one of the areas that China and Russia cooperate most.

Probably thanks to the SCO and common political posture that religious terrorism has greatly been prevented from penetrating the region.

International conjecture might push the two into a more formal alliance in the future, but currently, the noise coming from the west does not really require that China and Russia should embark on a hard security partnership. But the framework is already there if one day such a need arises.

US Lawmaker Names Russia Among America’s Serious Threats / Sputnik international

@senheiser , @vostok

 

[sicsheep]

The Norkors are a bane to everyone. I honestly doubt the Russians have the capability to address that military threat. China, I believe she can, but it would take time to mobilize her 5000 tank fleet to address them. Or the some 8000 artillery pieces the Norkors have at their disposal. This would render any Chinese offensive into North Korea a bloody one.

Let us not forget the Norkors possess nuclear capability....

hmm OK, If you are sitting in Beijing, you will look at it this way, a little off topic but here you go.
1, even South knows the 8000 artillery is hugely exaggerated, they are so dated no chance they get off with a second shot in time of war, (maybe not even one shot before they get destroyed)
2, all nuclear weapons and facilities are right by the Yalu where the Kim thinks is the safest, not too hard to find for us haha
3, again, before all these would happen, we can just stop the food train and let malnutrition do its work, because we literally feed their army

 

[Zsari]

The North Koreans now they have zero allies. Or zero ally. Any Nuclear Attack on China will mean complete decimation of North Korea. COMPLETE. North Korea is only a buffer state between China and South Korea. China can deal with either having a population between it and South Korea or just a waste land.

China does not need a buffer state against S.Korea. N.Korea is only relevant when American force is present on the peninsular, and that will remain so until S.Korea is able to find a better arrangement. Hopefully, an ever improving China S.Korea relation will give it the confidence to take the necessary step.

 

[terranMarine]

I think they just don't understand the relationship China has with Korea since ancient times. The Koreans were never a threat to China because Korea has always been a good tribute state to us. Right now the North is ruled by some fat pig who executed his pro China uncle, yes as crazy as he seems to be the North Koreans aren't that crazy to treat China as an enemy or gonna launch an attack against us. Therefor China has nothing to fear from North Korea. Japan on the other hand is a different matter

 

[TaiShang]

​Russia-China trading settlements in yuan increases 800% — RT Business

Settlements in yuan between China and Russia have increased ninefold in annual terms between January and September 2014, says the Chinese Ministry of Economic Development.

"The settlement in national currencies between China and Russia in bilateral trade amounted to about 2 percent in 2013. There has been a significant growth in 2014. In particular, the use of the yuan in mutual settlements increased nine times in the first nine months of 2014." TASS quotes Lin Zhi, head of the Europe and Central Asia Department of the Chinese Ministry of Economic Development.

READ MORE: Ruble-yuan settlements will cut energy sales in US dollars – Putin

"About 100 Russian commercial banks are now opening corresponding accounts for settlements in yuan. The list of commercial banks where ordinary depositors can open an account in yuan is also growing." the official said.

On November 18 Russia’s Sberbank became the first Russian bank to begin financing letters of credit in Chinese yuan.

READ MORE: Russia’s biggest bank launches financing in Chinese yuan

Half of the trade between Russia and China could be carried out in yuan and rubles provided China removes restrictions on currency transactions for Russian banks, said Deputy Finance Minister Aleksey Moiseyev in September. The restrictions don’t allow Russian banks to keep yuan received from exporters for a long time.

Russia and China have been boosting cooperation primarily in the financial and energy sectors and are planning to have a trade turnover of $200 billion by 2020.

Switching to settlements in domestic currencies can largely contribute to balancing the global economy by reducing the impact of the dollar on the world financial and energy markets, President Vladimir Putin said at the APEC Summit last week.

 

[sicsheep]

BEIJING, November 18. /TASS/. Military and military-technical cooperation between Russia and China assumes paramount significance amid the international situation, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said on Wednesday.

“Unfortunately, the situation in the region (Asia-Pacific), North Africa and in the whole world is becoming more and more complicated every year. Military and military-technical cooperation between Russia and China assumes special importance,” he said at a meeting with Vice-Chairman of the Chinese Central Military Commission Xu Qiliang.

He praised the state of and prospects for the development of military-technical cooperation between the two countries. “Today we’ll have an opportunity to talk about all issues of military-technical cooperation. Much of what we discussed during your visit to Moscow last year is being realized,” Shoigu told his Chinese colleague.

“The level of our relations proves that we have no unsolved problems. Our work will be aimed at implementing projects within military-technical cooperation,” he said. Shoigu thanked Xu Qiliang for the warm reception and good preparations of the Russian-Chinese intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation due to be held in Beijing on November 19.

Xu Qiliang said, “Strategic partnership between China and Russia entered a new stage of the development. We’re pleased with it.” The development of partnership “mirrors our peoples’ willingness and plays an important role in preserving regional and global peace,” he said.

Shoigu is currently on an official visit to China from November 17 to November 19.

Russia-China military-technical cooperation of paramount importance — defense minister