The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[Kloitra]

That is not the point
ISRO claimed the Mars mission cheaper than a Hollywood movie without counting the cost incurred but not invoiced by NASA

Do you mean that from its deep space navigation?

Overall we rely an overwhelmingly lot on ourselves than Indian's missions

You even dont have the heavy lift rocket without Russia's help:
The Space Review: GSLV-D5 success: A major “booster” to India’s space program

The entire delay in the GSLV was because India didn't get Russian help, which was initially expected.

A lot of equipment in your Chandrayaan-1 were not Indian made
Chandrayaan-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chandrayaan was supposed to carry different equipments for different purposes. It is like different research labs collaborating to use a facility for different research.

But, I agree with your earlier posts that Indian developments are hyped way more than what they actually accomplish.

 

[Keel]

I have to admit Indian media when it comes to science reporting is not good, there are few exceptions, but mostly its bad. They may have even claimed we discovered life.



A lot is not completely. Both China and India rely on other nations for support. Again its a collaborative thing, space is a frontier for human collaboration. See your upcoming lander mission will take the exactly the same kind of help from ESA and others as mangalyaan did. Are you guys being charged for that? I dont think so.

Chang'e 3 ready to launch to the Moon | The Planetary Society

Chang’e-3 liftoff is set for around 18:00 GMT on 1 December, and the 15 m-diameter dish in Kourou will pick up the first signals around 18:44 GMT.

ESA's Estrack tracking station control room at ESOC, the European Space Operations Centre, Working with Chinese tracking stations, Kourou will support the mission through lunar orbit entry on 6 December continuing until just prior to its descent to the surface, expected around mid-day on 14 December.

The landing and rover operations on the Moon will be commanded via two Chinese tracking stations at Kashi, in the far west of China, and at Jiamusi, in the northeast.

“After the lander and rover are on the surface, we will use our 35 m-diameter deep-space antennas at Cebreros, Spain, and New Norcia, Australia, to provide ‘delta-DOR’ location measurement,” says Erik Soerensen, responsible for external mission tracking support at ESOC.

“Using this delta-DOR technique, you can compute locations with extreme accuracy, which will help our Chinese colleagues to determine the precise location of the lander.”

Together with Cebreros, New Norcia will record Chang’e-3’s radio signals during landing, which will help the Chinese space agency to reconstruct the trajectory for future reference.

A team of engineers from China will be on hand in Darmstadt. “While we’re very international at ESOC, hardly anyone speaks Mandarin, so having Chinese colleagues on site will really help in case of any unforeseen problems,” says Erik.

“Both sides are using international technical standards to enable our stations and ESOC to communicate with their mission and ground systems."

Dont blame your media which are bad most of the time
ISRO shared the big mouth claims I think

On the second part about ESA's assistance in tracking. We never denied ESA's help and wih much thanks not because we cant do the job but because of territorial rights that we cant build antennas as wide spread as extending to the locations in Europe as we know the hostility from NASA on our space programmes

Again the point is ISRO said the cost of your Mars Mission being cheaper than a Hollywood Movie while omitting NSAS's service costs is a ridiculously reckless claim.

 

[Krate M]

Ok I get your point NASA helped us but didnt help you. So that's our fault or doing of your compatriots who have caused NASA and US to doubt you guys. What is stopping you guys from getting a cooperation agreement.
The only point you are making is NASA's service cost, they didnt charge us because we have a deal with them. BIG DEAL.
Mangalyaan was cheaper than hollywood movie Gravity.
Kar bhala to ho bhala.

 

[Keel]

Do you mean that from its deep space navigation?

The entire delay in the GSLV was because India didn't get Russian help, which was initially expected.

Chandrayaan was supposed to carry different equipments for different purposes. It is like different research labs collaborating to use a facility for different research.

But, I agree with your earlier posts that Indian developments are hyped way more than what they actually accomplish.

I guess your understanding is better than some other insolent Indian posters above and thus no more comment from me iro your post.

Ok I get your point NASA helped us but didnt help you. So that's our fault or doing of your compatriots who have caused NASA and US to doubt you guys.
The only point you are making is NASA's service cost, they didnt charge us because we have a deal with them. BIG DEAL.
Mangalyaan was cheaper than hollywood movie Gravity.

Haha you are twisting facts again
You should calculate the total cost of your Mars mission by adding the "potential" costs of equivalent service as provided by NASA before you made the claim . You cannot reach Mars without spending a dime on tracking in future unless NASA or someone is giving you a free ride next time.

 

[Krate M]

@Keel
you get similar "free ride " from EU, your chang'e mission would be costlier or even impossible without help from other nations. Its collaboration and cooperation, that is a major part of the space exploration. I hope you understand that and also understand that not only do we use NASA facilities, they use our DSN facilities too, its mutual.
Why should we add potential costs when we don't have to. You dont add extra price to discounted goods do you? We got it cheap, we are happy about it, why does that cause so much heartburn to you? You didnt get discount thats why?

 

[Keel]

@Keel
you get similar "free ride " from EU, your chang'e mission would be costlier or even impossible without help from other nations. Its collaboration and cooperation, that is a major part of the space exploration. I hope you understand that and also understand that not only do we use NASA facilities, they use our DSN facilities too, its mutual.
Why should we add potential costs when we don't have to. You dont add extra price to discounted goods do you? We got it cheap, we are happy about it, why does that cause so much heartburn to you? You didnt get discount thats why?

OMG it was not China's claim that we have launched the CHEAPEST Chang'e 3 mission for God's sake.

 

[Krate M]

@Keel That aside, why does NASA not collaborate with China in space matters? Serious question.

 

[Keel]

@Keel That aside, why does NASA not collaborate with China in space matters? Serious question.

Now you finally understand why I said ISRO is making a reckless claim again

For your 'serious" question, I think they do not want us to do well when they know of our great potentials and their suspicioun of our using the space tech for military purposes.

Dont get hurt over this in reflection but my reply is as frank as I can.

 

[Krate M]

Nope I understood what your point is.
You feel that ISRO hasn't really put the cost of help it got for free in the mangalyaan mission, which may have cost more if such facilities were charged for, therefore claiming like this is illogical.
But what we see is that we got a good deal because of our good relations and so the cost incurred turned out to be low and that is nothing to unhappy about. So why would it be wrong to say we incurred x amount and that was lower than a sci-fi movie.

I understand that you wouldnt be convinced about it and made my peace with the fact that I am not here to convince you about such facts.
peace

 

[halupridol]

whats this competition thing,,,,,,,,,,we shud be cooperating

 

[Krate M]

^egg jactly what I was telling, BRICS satellite FTW. Hell we should have a BRICS space station

 

[Keel]

Nope I understood what your point is.
You feel that ISRO hasn't really put the cost of help it got for free in the mangalyaan mission, which may have cost more if such facilities were charged for, therefore claiming like this is illogical.
But what we see is that we got a good deal because of our good relations and so the cost incurred turned out to be low and that is nothing to unhappy about. So why would it be wrong to say we incurred x amount and that was lower than a sci-fi movie.

I understand that you wouldnt be convinced about it and made my peace with the fact that I am not here to convince you about such facts.
peace

You still want to engage in another round of foolish claim despite the clear logic is there
Has NASA charged you at all?
Do you get the same "FOC" or "Discount" from NASA again next time around?

If a country wants India to help launch an orbiter to Mars, what cost would you quote to your "client" - the same
"cheapest" cost as that one or a new and higher price with consideration for inclusion of NASA's equivalent service cost ?

^egg jactly what I was telling, BRICS satellite FTW. Hell we should have a BRICS space station

a BRCS space station Sorry India

 

[Kloitra]

You still want to engage in another round of foolish claim despite the clear logic is there
Has NASA charged you at all?
Do you get the same "FOC" or "Discount" from NASA again next time around?

If a country wants India to help launch an orbiter to Mars, what cost would you quote to your "client" - the same
"cheapest" cost as that one or a new and higher price with consideration for inclusion of NASA's equivalent service cost ?

DSN is not free of cost, the service is charged based on use.

 

[Krate M]

You still want to engage in another round of foolish claim despite the clear logic is there
Has NASA charged you at all?
Do you get the same "FOC" or "Discount" from NASA again next time around?

If a country wants India to help launch an orbiter to Mars, what cost would you quote to your "client" - the same
"cheapest" cost as that one or a new and higher price with consideration for inclusion of NASA's equivalent service cost ?



a BRCS space station Sorry India

You still want to engage in another round of foolish claim despite the clear logic is there ,
lets agree to disagree. You get my logic though right?
I was thinking IndoChinese space station but wanted more ppl, but if thats what you guys want its your choice.
Do you seriously think there are no opportunities to collaborate between China and India in space matters. Why fall for colonial traps?

@Kloitra plz explain a bit more.

 

[halupridol]

You still want to engage in another round of foolish claim despite the clear logic is there
Has NASA charged you at all?
Do you get the same "FOC" or "Discount" from NASA again next time around?

If a country wants India to help launch an orbiter to Mars, what cost would you quote to your "client" - the same
"cheapest" cost as that one or a new and higher price with consideration for inclusion of NASA's equivalent service cost ?

this mission puts India with few other capable nations,,,,so ofcourse it has its benefits,doesnt matter whether u acknowledge it or not.