The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[vsdoc]

yes so creative that it's the same stories and same lines, same rhetoric we've been hearing since as far back as i can remember.

As opposed to the brilliantly original solutions and constructive contributions to peace we have enjoyed from your side as far back as I can remember.

The other option of course is to continue on the path we have been following.

I am sure even the most rabidly anti-Indian Pakistani amongst you realises that you are simply out of your league now when it comes to fighting us for anything.

Be happy that India is coming at you in peace. The alternative is not something you would enjoy.

Cheers, Doc

 

[toxic_pus]

If this is true, then Pakistanis need to introspect. Perhaps their misguided "bravado" is what's making them lose these wars. The other thing about "bravado" is you are likely going to get used. Anyone with a lot of passion but with a lot less thinking, ultimately gets misled by people who just appeal to their hearts and not to their minds. I need to learn more about Pakistani culture but if there is a generalization that Pakistanis think instinctively and not as a collective that take other people in the world along with them, I fear they'll get more isolated and this in turn is going to cause more alienation between pakistanis and the rest of the world. This cycles needs to be immediately stopped and ,if possible, even reversed.

I am not an expert on Pakistani culture, but I sure believe that this 'bravado' is not an universal phenomenon among Pakistanis. However, having said that, I must admit that I find many takers of this presumptive superiority over 'Hindu' Indians, among the military fraternity of Pakistan.

Henry Kissinger, in his memoirs, 'The White House Years', narrated one such anecdote. In 1971, in the middle of massive civil unrest in East Pakistan, which later became Bangladesh, Mr Kissinger was visiting Pakistan. In one conversation, he was discussing with the (then) president Yahya Khan and his foreign secretary Sultan Khan, about the situation in East Pakistan. He writes:

' I urged them to put forward a comprehensive proposal to encourage refugees to return home and to deny India a pretext for going to war. I urged Yahya and his associates to go a step farther in the internationalization of relief by admitting the United Nations to supervise its distribution. And I recommended the early appointment of a civilian governor for East Pakistan. Yahya promised to consider these suggestions. But fundamentally he was oblivious to his perils and unprepared to face necessities. He and his colleagues did not believe that India might be planning war; if so, they were convinced that they would win. When I asked as tactfully as I could about the Indian advantage in numbers and equipment, Yahya and his colleagues answered with bravado about the historic superiority of Moslem fighters.'


There are many such examples in many other writings. But I am sure you get the idea.

 

[liberalindian8]

I liked your photo presentations.

I don't think India will accept any of these solutions. So If you really want to make this discussion fruitful, include the secret solution which Musharraf and Indian govt worked upon. That was acceptable to both countries.

 

[Nihat]

I liked your photo presentations.

I don't think India will accept any of these solutions. So If you really want to make this discussion fruitful, include the secret solution which Musharraf and Indian govt worked upon. That was acceptable to both countries.

Pakistan has to accept status quo , it can be sooner or later because there is simply no other option open to them. It can accept this now or wage another 20 years of proxy war.

Makes no difference to India either way.

 

[deckingraj]

Pakistan has to accept status quo , it can be sooner or later because there is simply no other option open to them. It can accept this now or wage another 20 years of proxy war.

Makes no difference to India either way.

it would be wrong if we say it makes no difference to India...500,000 of our Army is situated in Kashmir just because of this insurgency....So many lives and money have been lost due to it...However proxy war is not solving its purpose...it is not making India bend on it knees and sit on negotiating table to solve Kashmir as per Pakistan wishes...So there you are right that the only option available to pak is accept status quo and make the boundaries invisible....

 

[iiindian]

The only solution is to solve the issue is to make loc as IB(sooner the better).
Or else it will be difficult for pak in the future.because
india is becoming economicaly and militarily stronger.so in the future bargaines pak's position will only become weaker.
infiltration of terrorists from pak to kashmir has become less and will be lesser as our armed forces will be better equipped to survive terrain,and latest technology will be there to detect and eliminate the infiltration attempts.
pak cannot even think about a kargil like mis adventure because the military gap between india and pak will only become huge in the future.
US Support for pak will be minimal once they met their objectives (elimination of terrorists).

 

[Hulk]

IMO the way it can be solved is when both sides become practical. People have to understand that neither insurgency nor war can lead to the solution, so when an approach cannot lead to solution we have to think differently.
We need to understand that it will not be possible to change the border as it will be something not easy to buy. The only solution lies in making the border irrelevant, people on both sides allowed moving freely within the territory.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The only solution is to solve the issue is to make loc as IB(sooner the better).
Or else it will be difficult for pak in the future.because
india is becoming economicaly and militarily stronger.so in the future bargaines pak's position will only become weaker.
infiltration of terrorists from pak to kashmir has become less and will be lesser as our armed forces will be better equipped to survive terrain,and latest technology will be there to detect and eliminate the infiltration attempts.
pak cannot even think about a kargil like mis adventure because the military gap between india and pak will only become huge in the future.
US Support for pak will be minimal once they met their objectives (elimination of terrorists).

you speak with so much zeal, so much conviction!


The military gap was largest during Kargil campaign, a lot of our aircrafts were grounded due to sanctions. Even then you guys took quite the thrashing you had to call in your air force

 

[foxbat]

you speak with so much zeal, so much conviction!


The military gap was largest during Kargil campaign, a lot of our aircrafts were grounded due to sanctions. Even then you guys took quite the thrashing you had to call in your air force

The number and strength of the tools used is irrelavant as long as they get the job done. And diplomacy is one of the most potent tools available. The way the Kargil misadventure was handled by India forces without crossing the LoC (and taking the bait that Musharraf wanted India to take) is the reason why Pakistan's Prime minister was summoned to Washington and was given a dressing down by Clinton.

And your comment about thrashing reminds me of one of the old Amitabh Starrers in India - Amar Akbar Anthony. In that Amitabh gets a solid beating by Vinod Khanna and is locked up in a holding cell. There he says " Tumne apun of dus mara and apun ne tum to 2 mara. But solid mara".
Sounds nice in a movie, but hey, the difference of 8 is too big to ignore in real life.. Isnt it?

Really some of the Pakistani members here talking about how PAF was better in 1971 than IAF or how it took so long for India to clear Kargil sound so much like a lamer version of the above statement.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So if you are fed up of reading those things, then just get lost and don't log in again. Simple as that.

You arent doing us some favour by posting here, indian.

 

[foxbat]

So if you are fed up of reading those things, then just get lost and don't log in again. Simple as that.

You arent doing us some favour by posting here, indian.

Did I touch a raw nerve.. ? Anyway to your question, no I am not fed up of reading those. Always gives me a good laugh. And no, I am certainly doing no one any favors by posting here. On the contrary, its the Admin team of this forum who is doing us all a favor by running such a popular forum..


But then we are going off topic here..

 

[iiindian]

you speak with so much zeal, so much conviction!


The military gap was largest during Kargil campaign, a lot of our aircrafts were grounded due to sanctions. Even then you guys took quite the thrashing you had to call in your air force

so you are accepting the fact that it was your army men who infiltrated in kargil(pak govt always denied that).
And about thrashing..remember our pm was busy making peace process with pak civilian govt and your army stabbed my country from the back.Once you occupied that hills it was difficult for us to re capture that point because of terrain.But ultimatly we have done it and you guys failed in your attempt and you are still proud of your cheating and call it a bravery.

 

[amit26uk]

Kashmiri pandits dont want to live in Pakistan they want their own homeland called 'panum kashmir', most the kashmiri pandits live in camps in jammu and delhi because the indian goverment failed them.

 

[iiindian]

Make LOC the IB that is the only possible solution.This way we both can claim that we won and when there is peace, life in kashmir will certainly improve.
Then we can reduce army presence in kashmir (if pak stops supporting infiltraters)and both countries can reduce their defence budget also(that means more money for development).so this way its a win win situation for both parties.

 

[RollingStones]

Kashmiri pandits dont want to live in Pakistan they want their own homeland called 'panum kashmir', most the kashmiri pandits live in camps in jammu and delhi because the indian goverment failed them.

I read a bit about Kashmiri solutions. It appears that Kashmiri pandits want a separate state (a separate district within Kashmir valley) within J&K, and under Indian constitution. Is this true? Wont this this complicate the solution? This problem is more complex than I thought.