The first war of India fought against Pakistan

[INDIC]

Don't bother, this link was also referred there..

Anyway, I have read the book "Mission in Kashmir" - I would recommend you too to read this book, its a good book. In addition to Father Shank's eleven days it also covers other aspects. It also mentions how India colors its stories and how facts are distorted per interests.. I suspect you know the the book in its entirety, for if you knew you wouldn't hyperbolize.

BTW, here, as per father shank (MiK, page 94) - Last line in particular.

I have also given other sources, have a look to that.

 

[Emmie]

I have also given other sources, have a look to that.

Reads books like MiK, good books illuminate all aspects. Don't waste your time here and there..

 

[INDIC]

Reads books like MiK, good books illuminate all aspects. Don't waste your time here and there..

People should read different sources.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I am seriously troubled by your support to India and Afghanistan. There is no sense in supporting the Indians. Marathas, Ranjit Singh's Sikhs... all their nations have virtually always been at war with us since time immemorial. There is no sense in defending them. It is foolish and shows lack of insight. I might be suspicious of the world Afghan and Pashtun nationalist because of a number of terrorists I met on that site and those inspired by them like you.

My support to india and afghanistan?. My feelings for afghanistan are more of affection than loyalty, every proper pashtun has such feelings no matter how much patriotic he is towards his country Pakistan. About india, well i am not obsessed with it , i do not have love and hate relationship with india like mohajirs and punjabis. Like many sensible pakistanis I just want peace and friendly relationships between two countries.
Havi you dont know me, i am not a blind patriot or defender of any nation/country whether it is pashtun, pakistan, afghanistan. I am a very big critic of my own pashtuns, i know their flaws. But i have kept my mouth shut on defence.pk for a reason, it is very sensitive plateform, members here are not that intellectual or mature, there is non-sensible e-war going on between indians and pakistanis. Pakistanis are not frank and open on many topics because of presence of the indians...in this messed up situation i realized that there should be a voice from pashtuns on PDF, who can defend pashtuns (whether from pak or afghanistan) from haters. Most of the haters were from your mohajir community.
You can say i might be wasting my time, but i feel i didnt, except your mod Oscar, every one took action gainst antipashtuns posts that i reported.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer Can you add some input to this thread.

To what purpose?

First, as far as this incident - the invasion by the tribal lashkar, and their behaviour during the invasion - is concerned, the facts are clear. They have been recorded again and again, and it is surrealistic to read Pakistani hypernationalists drawing a fine line between rape and murder and simple murder. As if it mattered to the dead, or to the abducted. There is no lack of testimony.

Second, like all other incidents of this sort, one side produces the evidence, the other side then puts out smoke screens and applies whitewash copiously. Both sides have done it. This particular incident is unpleasant reading for the Pakistani members of the forum. Other incidents would make equally unpleasant reading for Indian members; yet others would make unpleasant reading for Bangladeshis, for Sri Lankans, for the Burmese...it goes on.

Third, attempts at covering up the involvement of the nascent Pakistani state are strange to see. It is a struggle against facts recorded in dry, unemotional terms by the Pakistani side itself. Reading Tariq Ali on the subject is a sobering experience; he speaks with the familiarity of the privileged insider about events and personal motives at the highest levels. There is nothing left to cover the nakedness of what happened, not even a fig-leaf.

Fourth, to balance this, the preceding events in Jammu and in Poonch are worth remembering. One school of thought states that this attack was direct retaliation for those incidents, where there was widespread massacre. It is another thing that this attack was bizarre in that it took a vicious toll of those whom it purportedly sought to rescue and to avenge; the community injured and decimated in Jammu and Poonch was sought to be rescued and avenged by being raped and looted and killed, this time by their own supposed rescuers. There was collateral damage among Sikhs and Hindus, and the handful of hapless Europeans caught in the fighting, but the invaders had no scruples about whom they visited their liberation upon.

Fifth, the efforts at justifying these hideous actions based on the prevailing culture of the time make queasy reading. What a specious justification. What flimsy excuses. It is only slightly better than the utterly loathsome attempts at a parochial defence of these acts on the grounds that these were committed by those who won territory for the new state of Pakistan. That defence is shallow and mistaken. The major territorial gains were made further north, and further east, by state forces belonging to a local prince, complete with their own artillery, which swept aside the meagrely armed and equipped state forces of the Maharaja, captured Skardu and Kargil, and besieged Leh, before being thrown back by the Indian Army as it deployed. The tribals gained nothing, only the permanent reputation for foul behaviour that they hold for all time to come. Those who won two fifths of Kashmir for Pakistan were not those raping, looting and killing women and children in Baramula; they were those who fought in Gilgit and Ladakh.

Time people on both sides read their history and refrained from casting the first stone.

 

[haviZsultan]

My support to india and afghanistan?. My feelings for afghanistan are more of affection than loyalty, every proper pashtun has such feelings no matter how much patriotic he is towards his country Pakistan. About india, well i am not obsessed with it , i do not have love and hate relationship with india like mohajirs and punjabis. Like many sensible pakistanis I just want peace and friendly relationships between two countries.
Havi you dont know me, i am not a blind patriot or defender of any nation/country whether it is pashtun, pakistan, afghanistan. I am a very big critic of my own pashtuns, i know their flaws. But i have kept my mouth shut on defence.pk for a reason, it is very sensitive plateform, members here are not that intellectual or mature, there is non-sensible e-war going on between indians and pakistanis. Pakistanis are not frank and open on many topics because of presence of the indians...in this messed up situation i realized that there should be a voice from pashtuns on PDF, who can defend pashtuns (whether from pak or afghanistan) from haters. Most of the haters were from your mohajir community.
You can say i might be wasting my time, but i feel i didnt, except your mod Oscar, every one took action gainst antipashtuns posts that i reported.

I am deeply troubled that I managed to convince everyone but have failed in this regard with you who continue his insidious claims. You said all sorts of things that were proven wrong like Imran Khan being non-pashtun and Sufi saints having no role in wars. Will you ever stop?

It is an insult that we have a member of Pakistani state supporting a nation like Afghanistan with not even half our gdp per capita. Shame really. And furthermore no matter told how much he is worsening things for Pashtuns he doesn't listen. The haters need only an excuse to hate, you give them that excuse. And don't worry about migrants. They can't stand before my logic. An MQM supporter won't survive long if he posts anti-Pashtun rants. I can assure you of this.

I shut every haters mouth from maverick to W11 to darkinsky? What else do you want? Tried to appease you. But you are like a broken clock stuck at same place continuing with the same theories.

He said Maseeds were looters and you had no problem. Pakistani says it you start an ethnic war. This is hypocricy Luffy. I don't know how Arooj knows person like you... really what a shame. This is hyge hypocricy luffy. Also you fighting the Wazirs and Maseeds is because of primitivity. Moden Pashtuns strongly reject these ways. Why are you trying to give this impression of Pashtuns which in my book I am trying to prove false?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I am deeply troubled that I managed to convince everyone but have failed in this regard with you who continue his insidious claims. You said all sorts of things that were proven wrong like Imran Khan being non-pashtun and Sufi saints having no role in wars. Will you ever stop?

It is an insult that we have a member of Pakistani state supporting a nation like Afghanistan with not even half our gdp per capita. Shame really. And furthermore no matter told how much he is worsening things for Pashtuns he doesn't listen. The haters need only an excuse to hate, you give them that excuse. And don't worry about migrants. They can't stand before my logic. An MQM supporter won't survive long if he posts anti-Pashtun rants. I can assure you of this.

I shut every haters mouth from maverick to W11 to darkinsky? What else do you want? Tried to appease you. But you are like a broken clock stuck at same place continuing with the same theories.

He said Maseeds were looters and you had no problem. Pakistani says it you start an ethnic war. This is hypocricy Luffy. I don't know how Arooj knows person like you... really what a shame. This is hyge hypocricy luffy. Also you fighting the Wazirs and Maseeds is because of primitivity. Moden Pashtuns strongly reject these ways. Why are you trying to give this impression of Pashtuns which in my book I am trying to prove false?

Who cares about you, your book and your mission?. I have my own point of views, mind your own business. And dont flatter yourself, you have changed no one, if darkinsky has toned down, then its not because of you, but the threat of ban, the mods who issue him infractions on his foul comments. He and many members are restricted and kept in check by forum rules, in its absence you would see type of comments you see in the youtube...you think you can change safriz? Make him like pashtuns? Hell no. A straight forward person like him has assumed silence for time being, he is very smart person unlike you. He is attacking pashtuns without violating any forum rules, what he says are facts but he re-arranges random facts about pashtuns into anti-pashtun paragraphs, into effective believable propaganda, ready to influence raw minds here. A tiny troll like darkinsky and emotional fool like you are least of my concern.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Truth hurts, what? Living in denial of the truth is supreme bliss! Carry on......

LOL this is a habit of India not Pakistan.

 

[kurup]

You can provide as many proof you want But pakistanis will be still in denial.

 

[bronxbull]

I am deeply troubled that I managed to convince everyone but have failed in this regard with you who continue his insidious claims. You said all sorts of things that were proven wrong like Imran Khan being non-pashtun and Sufi saints having no role in wars. Will you ever stop?

It is an insult that we have a member of Pakistani state supporting a nation like Afghanistan with not even half our gdp per capita. Shame really. And furthermore no matter told how much he is worsening things for Pashtuns he doesn't listen. The haters need only an excuse to hate, you give them that excuse. And don't worry about migrants. They can't stand before my logic. An MQM supporter won't survive long if he posts anti-Pashtun rants. I can assure you of this.

I shut every haters mouth from maverick to W11 to darkinsky? What else do you want? Tried to appease you. But you are like a broken clock stuck at same place continuing with the same theories.

He said Maseeds were looters and you had no problem. Pakistani says it you start an ethnic war. This is hypocricy Luffy. I don't know how Arooj knows person like you... really what a shame. This is hyge hypocricy luffy. Also you fighting the Wazirs and Maseeds is because of primitivity. Moden Pashtuns strongly reject these ways. Why are you trying to give this impression of Pashtuns which in my book I am trying to prove false?

about u being a pashtun? or becoming one?

 

[haviZsultan]

about u being a pashtun? or becoming one?

I meant convincing him to forget his anti-Pakistani and racist stance-the other racists on this site stopped their racism. What he thinks I am is inconsequential to me as the Pakistani identity comes first, second and last. Then comes the Pashtun identity and it can never be used to divide me from Pakistan

I said this before, say it again. With my links to Lucknow I am more of a negative influence and issue for India than I am as a Pashtun. I have relatives all over India and members of our wider clan unaffiliated with Firangi Mahal but Ansaris alright have suffered in Hyderabad. It is better for India if I forget them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I meant convincing him to forget his anti-Pakistani and racist stance-the other racists on this site stopped their racism. What he thinks I am is inconsequential to me as the Pakistani identity comes first, second and last. Then comes the Pashtun identity and it can never be used to divide me from Pakistan

I said this before, say it again. With my links to Lucknow I am more of a negative influence and issue for India than I am as a Pashtun. I have relatives all over India and members of our wider clan unaffiliated with Firangi Mahal but Ansaris alright have suffered in Hyderabad. It is better for India if I forget them.

It seems, unlikely though it may sound, that India trembles in its shoes at the possibility of your remembering them. Interesting. Obviously, for a self-effacing and modest person such as you, this undesired publicity is deeply disturbing.

 

[KS]

The "war on Kashmir" was a sucessful ploy by Jinnah to achieve two things with one stroke.

Break the back of the Pashtunistan sentiment that was gathering strength with the time tested slogan "Islam is in danger" and thereby making Pakistan look as the home of Islam and also annex Kashmir.

He suceeded in the former when the gullible tribals once again got caught in the danger to Islam sentiment and attacked Kashmir..but he failed in the latter.

 

[Babbar-Khalsa]

i am a pashtun and i cant imagine that being done by an pashtun

Hello Naseem ,

I also know Pashtun culture ....but you cant gurantee that all men are same ......believe me ....whenever there is an attack on civilians by any army/militia ....rape happens.....because power corrupts a man.

 

[Xracer]

and how this comment related to 47-48 Kashmir war.

ooh ooh you mean its OFF Topic