The Fight against PKK Terrorism

[kartal1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1089217774721925126

 

[kartal1]

We remember with respect the General Consul for LA in USA Mehmet Baydar and his colegue Consul Bahadir Demir which were martyred by an Armenian terrorist on 27th of January 1973.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1089389051256414209

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Guys let's clarify , in order to be tactical and keep terrorists pace, Armies use more tactical and oldmen's methods. For example patrolling with turboprop aircrafts.
Squad teams , artilleries etc. I think we all agree that hat cannot use cruise missiles against terrorist. I have just made up idea using Hitlers Zoo Towers. With FLak artillery and 20 mm rapidfire , the tower supressis 40 square km . If you add today's modern optic and sensor technology you will be able to police your homeland all seasons . Along the border line zoo towers should be build instead of fence.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoo_Tower

Land forces overlook long range Directfireartillery however naval forces still use on warships.
I would love to fire otobreda vulcano 127mm onto terroristic movements from border towers. Therefor we wouldn't need some bases beyond the borders.

Maybe it's time to turn back to WW1 coastal artilleries with concrete bunkers in order to isolate soldiers.
Anyway you will find it BS

Primitive societies are of emotional psychology, to be more spesific ''Fear''.

Can those ethnic leftovers do the same against any mullah-related ''base'' in the same location?... is the key to the risk-free and cost-free permanent solution.(Btw, you can find in google some statements that confirm this.)

No need such things, just use the pschology of fear, millenium old human-proven ''tactic''.

But the real problem has roughly been mentioned in my previous post.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Kurds are a burden and have always been. There is a reason why they are hated hy everybody.

The base that got taken over looks very pathetic. Really its barely fortified to look even serious enough to be protected.

Not to mention equipment getting captured. Where is the shoot to kill order.

Now the kurds are celebrating. Let them celebrate because I hope Turkish F16s crash their party.

All Im hearing is condmenations nothing else from Turkey. We dont need condemnations we need revenge and punish the ones who allowed this to happen at the first place.

Civilians to be honest I dont care if anybody touches a military base or fortified position they would get shot like now tommorrow.

What about the bastard greek who tried to take down a Turkish flag the Turkish shot a hail of bullets on the prick.

You do not read, please read.

To make it easier, What did those ethnic leftovers win after the attack, what have they gained in return?

Nothing but psychological...

 

[Nein]

You do not read, please read.

To make it easier, What did those ethnic leftovers win after the attack, what have they gained in return?

Nothing but psychological...

They may not gain anything still you dont show weakness to your enemies

 

[kartal1]

Kurds are a burden and have always been. There is a reason why they are hated hy everybody.

The base that got taken over looks very pathetic. Really its barely fortified to look even serious enough to be protected.

Not to mention equipment getting captured. Where is the shoot to kill order.

Now the kurds are celebrating. Let them celebrate because I hope Turkish F16s crash their party.

All Im hearing is condmenations nothing else from Turkey. We dont need condemnations we need revenge and punish the ones who allowed this to happen at the first place.

Civilians to be honest I dont care if anybody touches a military base or fortified position they would get shot like no tommorrow.

What about the bastard greek who tried to take down a Turkish flag the Turkish shot a hail of bullets on the prick.

While talking about Kurds clarify more because in that way you are insulting thousands of Turkish soldiers which are ethnic Kurds and another hundreds from the decent (not corrupted) village guards that have always been cooperating with the State.

According to Prof. Dr. Umit Ozdag before 2008 the percentage of Kurdish ethnic security personnel among our martyrs is 26.8%. I want to remind you that some of the biggest traitors, imbeciles and idiots of the processes in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s which gave some of the heavy blows to the Turkish Armed Forces, to the security services and to the Turkish State at all were ethnic Turks carrying Turkish blood with Turkish passports who sold themselves to the enemy pretended they worked for the State or were thinking so.

Nobody is choosing what blood he carries in his veins and no one must be judged based on that. The traitor doesn't have nationality or ethnics. The traitor is just a traitor. Armenian, Greek, Kurd, Arab, Turk it doesn't matter. Nobody will ask them before putting a bullet in them.

I want to remind you that the particular base is not on Turkish territory so you are not allowed to do whatever you want. Even if the land is Turkish property that is used for a military purpose it is not considered a Turkish territory and you have complications. The soldiers are also not immune and if they exceed their rights they can face legal charges against them by the Iraqi Central Government or the Kurdish Regional Government and their fate decided by foreign courts.

If you see a crowd you don't immediately shoot. You must determinate their objective and determination and then decide. If the crowd is being highly motivated and coordinated by so called "leaders" with experience (which were present in that situation) if you shoot you could motivate them further and escalate into making them chasing you with intention of murder and spread the news among others and widen the whole organization. What would you do? Kill them all? You must protect the military installation with non lethal measures and wait for the local authorities to deal with the problem. The lethal force is applied only if you feel that your life is threatened and there is no other way to keep yourself alive. In such a mass event in a foreign country you can not simply shoot on unarmed people that include women and children (knowingly placed on the front line). Such a move could damage strategically the Turkish interests in the whole region.

A lot of people are talking about the event in TRNC when Greek Cypriot civilian is being shot while trying to put down the Turkish flag (right decision in my point of view) but nobody is talking about the legal challenges that the people involved in the Turkish side of the event faced.

In the year of 1996 INTERPOL gave a Red Notice for General Hasan KUNDAKCI (The Commander of the Turkish Peace Force in TRNC in that period), General Mehmet KARLI (The Commander of 28th Division in that period), Atilla Sav (The Chief of the Police forces of TRNC in that time), Erdal Emanet (The Chief of the Anti-Riot forces of TRNC), Kenan Akin (The Minister of Agriculture of TRNC, Member of the Parliament of TRNC by the Nationalist Justice Party, photographed with a gun in Derinya), Hasim Yilmaz (According to the Greek Cypriot authorities agent for the Turkish intelligence owner a cafe in Girne), Mustafa Ergun (Policeman, immigrant from Turkey), Polat Fikret Koreli (A Turkish Cypriot from Gazimagusta), Fikret Veli Koreli (The father of Polat Fikret, a bicycle mechanic), Mehmet Mustafa Arslan (The president of TRNC "Ulku Ocaklari"), Erhan Arikli (The President of Bir-Turk).

The Red Notice of the legendary General Hasan KUNDAKCI which was also a
Commander of the Special Warfare Department and a commander of Osman Pamukoglu himself was put down in enormous efforts by Turkish personnel in the Turkish Embassy in France in 1997.

To shoot at unarmed men on foreign territory is not an easy decision and even less easy when women and children are present. If you are ready to put Turkey's strategical efforts at risk, risk the lives of children which were put there without even knowing what are they going to do, risk the lives of the Turkish soldiers under your command and the lives of other Turkish citizens the future of all diplomatic missions in Northern Iraq and Iraq at all then good. I want to remind you that this is a planned provocation which is part of wire of other events as @Islamic faith&Secularism wisely said.

In a time when we are in a preparations for a bigger operation targeting the PKK's HQ in Qandil, when we already we have some progress with the Central Government and PUK, in a time when we are pushing for a safe zone in Northern Syria in a Kurdish majority areas, in a time when the propaganda against Turkey is intensive, in a time when John Bolton and Mike Pompeo are "concerned" about the treatment for the Kurds in a possible Turkish operation and in a Turkish controlled areas do you still think this is the right move?

The situation in which Turkey is being right now is like a minefield placed by the enemies. Sometimes you must step back in order to have the chance for step 2 or 3. If we manage to step carefully and identify all the mines and booby traps at the end of the road there is a big reward for us to come.

 

[Vergennes]

The TSK job should not include crowd control in such a hostile environment far from border ( outside country ) it's too risky

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-marines-training-with-french-gendarmerie.598835/#post-11127402

@kartal1 @T-123456 @cabatli_53 @Deliorman @CAN_TR

I don't know how Turkish army didn't expect such things would happen there. If non lethal means couldn't supress the demonstration,they should have fired warning shots,and if things went totally out of control,should have used live ammunitions. In no way another army would have allowed violent protesters (young or not,unarmed or not) in a base ransacking everything and potentially getting their hands on military equipments.

 

[kartal1]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-marines-training-with-french-gendarmerie.598835/#post-11127402

@kartal1 @T-123456 @cabatli_53 @Deliorman @CAN_TR

I don't know how Turkish army didn't expect such things would happen there. If non lethal means couldn't supress the demonstration,they should have fired warning shots,and if things went totally out of control,should have used live ammunitions. In no way another army would have allowed violent protesters (young or not,unarmed or not) in a base ransacking everything and potentially getting their hands on military equipments.

This is the result of old tactics and lack of prevention, intelligence, wrong analysis about the risks I think. Many more outposts and bases are in the exactly same conditions. It must not be allowed in any base let alone in a base with strategic importance like that one. Its a shame. Can't defend them in anyway while I really try. It is really a shame for me... We are in 21st century God damn it.

That is what happens when you try to be "old school" but the environment and the circumstances are not like before and doesn't allow it. You make a tactical retreat, some hooligans destroying your base and you watch there armed with a 7.62x51 battle rifle which could penetrate 3 of them in one shot.

I am all in for harsh measures and treatment but its not the 90s anymore. If done it must be done properly without leaving a trace. In such mass events it is not an option anymore. It will not get unnoticed like before. As the times, the medias, the laws and the threats evolves also the methods and tactics must evolve in order to match the existing threats in all their aspects.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

While talking about Kurds clarify more because in that way you are insulting thousands of Turkish soldiers which are ethnic Kurds and another hundreds from the decent (not corrupted) village guards that have always been cooperating with the State.

According to Prof. Dr. Umit Ozdag before 2008 the percentage of Kurdish ethnic security personnel among our martyrs is 26.8%. I want to remind you that some of the biggest traitors, imbeciles and idiots of the processes in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s which gave some of the heavy blows to the Turkish Armed Forces, to the security services and to the Turkish State at all were ethnic Turks carrying Turkish blood with Turkish passports who sold themselves to the enemy pretended they worked for the State or were thinking so.

Nobody is choosing what blood he carries in his veins and no one must be judged based on that. The traitor doesn't have nationality or ethnics. The traitor is just a traitor. Armenian, Greek, Kurd, Arab, Turk it doesn't matter. Nobody will ask them before putting a bullet in them.

I want to remind you that the particular base is not on Turkish territory so you are not allowed to do whatever you want. Even if the land is Turkish property that is used for a military purpose it is not considered a Turkish territory and you have complications. The soldiers are also not immune and if they exceed their rights they can face legal charges against them by the Iraqi Central Government or the Kurdish Regional Government and their fate decided by foreign courts.

If you see a crowd you don't immediately shoot. You must determinate their objective and determination and then decide. If the crowd is being highly motivated and coordinated by so called "leaders" with experience (which were present in that situation) if you shoot you could motivate them further and escalate into making them chasing you with intention of murder and spread the news among others and widen the whole organization. What would you do? Kill them all? You must protect the military installation with non lethal measures and wait for the local authorities to deal with the problem. The lethal force is applied only if you feel that your life is threatened and there is no other way to keep yourself alive. In such a mass event in a foreign country you can not simply shoot on unarmed people that include women and children (knowingly placed on the front line). Such a move could damage strategically the Turkish interests in the whole region.

A lot of people are talking about the event in TRNC when Greek Cypriot civilian is being shot while trying to put down the Turkish flag (right decision in my point of view) but nobody is talking about the legal challenges that the people involved in the Turkish side of the event faced.

In the year of 1996 INTERPOL gave a Red Notice for General Hasan KUNDAKCI (The Commander of the Turkish Peace Force in TRNC in that period), General Mehmet KARLI (The Commander of 28th Division in that period), Atilla Sav (The Chief of the Police forces of TRNC in that time), Erdal Emanet (The Chief of the Anti-Riot forces of TRNC), Kenan Akin (The Minister of Agriculture of TRNC, Member of the Parliament of TRNC by the Nationalist Justice Party, photographed with a gun in Derinya), Hasim Yilmaz (According to the Greek Cypriot authorities agent for the Turkish intelligence owner a cafe in Girne), Mustafa Ergun (Policeman, immigrant from Turkey), Polat Fikret Koreli (A Turkish Cypriot from Gazimagusta), Fikret Veli Koreli (The father of Polat Fikret, a bicycle mechanic), Mehmet Mustafa Arslan (The president of TRNC "Ulku Ocaklari"), Erhan Arikli (The President of Bir-Turk).

The Red Notice of the legendary General Hasan KUNDAKCI which was also a
Commander of the Special Warfare Department and a commander of Osman Pamukoglu himself was put down in enormous efforts by Turkish personnel in the Turkish Embassy in France in 1997.

To shoot at unarmed men on foreign territory is not an easy decision and even less easy when women and children are present. If you are ready to put Turkey's strategical efforts at risk, risk the lives of children which were put there without even knowing what are they going to do, risk the lives of the Turkish soldiers under your command and the lives of other Turkish citizens the future of all diplomatic missions in Northern Iraq and Iraq at all then good. I want to remind you that this is a planned provocation which is part of wire of other events as @Islamic faith&Secularism wisely said.

In a time when we are in a preparations for a bigger operation targeting the PKK's HQ in Qandil, when we already we have some progress with the Central Government and PUK, in a time when we are pushing for a safe zone in Northern Syria in a Kurdish majority areas, in a time when the propaganda against Turkey is intensive, in a time when John Bolton and Mike Pompeo are "concerned" about the treatment for the Kurds in a possible Turkish operation and in a Turkish controlled areas do you still think this is the right move?

The situation in which Turkey is being right now is like a minefield placed by the enemies. Sometimes you must step back in order to have the chance for step 2 or 3. If we manage to step carefully and identify all the mines and booby traps at the end of the road there is a big reward for us to come.

The post of mine you refer to tells much more than the point you made for the first phase in systematic and collectiveness. Therefore, your respond/reaction still plays in the frame of their game plan.


If the A exploits B's existance; then B has the right to exploit A's existance via indirectly. However, as your Cyprus example proves, no lesson taken since then inside/outside the country despite the action of shooting was right, but why not via indirectly done?... brings us back to the post of mine you refered to, if we track the post more then we end up in examining the period from 1945 to today in Turkey, but solve everything with one stone in the end permanently like domino effect.

For the first phase you talked... I am sure there are many people/groups ready to exploit the existance of A directly for the favour of the B (with risk/cost free for the B)... but as the post of mine you refered to mentions roughly, the immune system is out of service.

 

[Exxxe]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-marines-training-with-french-gendarmerie.598835/#post-11127402

@kartal1 @T-123456 @cabatli_53 @Deliorman @CAN_TR

I don't know how Turkish army didn't expect such things would happen there. If non lethal means couldn't supress the demonstration,they should have fired warning shots,and if things went totally out of control,should have used live ammunitions. In no way another army would have allowed violent protesters (young or not,unarmed or not) in a base ransacking everything and potentially getting their hands on military equipments.

Thanks for the link it's a good read learned from it

The PKK wanted the TSK to do what you are saying playing smart is what's needed even if it cost some small equipment and PR shananigens besides the TSK is the most humane army on the planet at the moment ( as I see it ) so even tho others would suppressed it by force I just dont see that's the TSK way

now the TSK has to be better prepared I insist the risk is too high that armed elements would be impeded in the crowd

It will easily turn to disaster ( for either side both civil and TSK ) even with best of training the retreat was the sound call with minimal effort

Now the TSK gotta figure a plan to prevent this from repeat or be ready to stop it when it does

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

We should have TOMAs at every military base.

 

[rajvoSa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1089462839817969664

 

[T-123456]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-marines-training-with-french-gendarmerie.598835/#post-11127402

@kartal1 @T-123456 @cabatli_53 @Deliorman @CAN_TR

I don't know how Turkish army didn't expect such things would happen there. If non lethal means couldn't supress the demonstration,they should have fired warning shots,and if things went totally out of control,should have used live ammunitions. In no way another army would have allowed violent protesters (young or not,unarmed or not) in a base ransacking everything and potentially getting their hands on military equipments.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-fight-against-pkk-terrorism.311209/page-471#post-11128890
Thats what i was saying,i just dont get it,why did they allow this to happen.
My gues is that they were ordered to stand down,i dont see another reason.

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-fight-against-pkk-terrorism.311209/page-471#post-11128890
Thats what i was saying,i just dont get it,why did they allow this to happen.
My gues is that they were ordered to stand down,i dont see another reason.

There were never embarrassments like this until FETÖ/AKP infiltrated the army. I'm not going to get into the politics of it but AKP in particular has f*cked up the command structure and procedures a lot recently.

Back in the day our generals used to make their own decisions. If terrorists did something we would act immediately in order to crush them. Now our army is under 'civilian' control. Meaning that most decisions need to be authorized by the government. This essentially means that TSK has lost its former potency. AKP is copying the Arabian model by making the military fully reliant on government orders.

Our military has its hands tied behind its back for now. Hopefully a truly nationalist government assumes control soon.

 

[MKALE1]

We should have TOMAs at every military base.

This might be joke ?