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The curious case of Nasr's terminal guidance

CriticalThought

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Per videos released recently, the Pakistani Nasr missile is a high precision, tactical ballistic missile. The videos show the missile being fired at a slant of 45 degrees, and hitting designated targets in the presence of stiff wind conditions with pin point accuracy.

What is confusing is the videos show the rocket motor being completely spent by the time the missile strikes the target. Now, guidance of a missile is achieved through either carefully controlled thrust vectoring, or through control surfaces. Open source pictures show the presence of stabilizing fins at both the front and rear of the missile. The question is, what role do they play in terminal guidance?

upload_2019-2-3_0-59-17.png


My speculation says that the frontal fins should be connected with actuators, allowing in-flight course correction. The missile uses the high speed airflow available at speeds between Mach 4-5 to aerodynamically fine tune its trajectory, achieving the astounding accuracy seen in the videos.

Which leads to a surprising conclusion. Along with the other attributes cited in the official release, I believe it would be logical to conclude that Nasr is an all-weather missile. This capability, although not officially recognized, makes Nasr highly reliable against enemy threats that may emerge spontaneously.

Finally, what about the terminal seeker? We don't see any IR/Visual sensors, and the warhead portion seems too small to carry any sort of radar guidance. Similarly, no laser sensors seem visible either. At most, the missile may be GPS guided, which would means it is prone to jamming by the enemy. At the very least, some type of inertial navigation must be present within the missile which seems to be more than enough at the small ranges for which the missile is designed.

Nasr represents a very judiciously selected set of characteristics that achieve a very potent effect using very simple components. This makes it ideal for mass production, and thus, a nightmare for advancing enemy columns. Even without a nuclear warhead, salvos of Nasr fired in tandem would see enemy fighting units decimated very quickly. No current armor is able to protect from strikes by warheads at Mach 4 - 5 speeds.

But the versatility of Nasr doesn't just end here. The videos merely show the missile disintegrating upon impact. But what would be the effect if a material with very high hardness is placed in the warhead? Tungsten Carbide is well known for both its hardness, and its brittleness. This means, it would shatter into fragments of extreme hardness if paired with a small explosive at impact. The resulting rain of extremely hard fragments at Mach 4 - 5 would have a meat grinder effect on the enemies.

It should be obvious that Nasr is a highly lethal, and extremely versatile tool at the disposal of Pakistan Armed Forces and can serve very well in both conventional and non-conventional roles.

@The Deterrent please point out any inaccuracies.
 
The Nasr is similar to the US Army's M142 HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M142_HIMARS

While The range of the Nasr is listed as 60 km, depending on its diameter its range could be much further. With the use of an efficient rocket motor, GPS based guidance system, and maneuvering flight profile. A range of only 60 km would be nearly within enemy artillery gun range and within cruise missile range of enemy forces. Also putting four missiles on one vehicle seems risky but that must be something the SPD came up with based on their own reasons. Himar's Shorter range rockets are guided by GPS.

https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-...ontent/uploads/2015/01/GMLRS-AW-1-740x493.jpg
Internal Look:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ima...ausa_2017/pictures/ATACMS_Lockheed_Martin.JPG


GMLRS
GMLRS-Rocket-2.jpg


NASR could also be similar to the IMI Extra (306 mm diameter, 4.7 meters long) Artillery rocket with a 150 km range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXTRA_artillery_rocket_system

Sort of like this similar IMI system; at 2:58 it shows the 40-50 km Trajectory Corrected Rockets system in the nose of the rocket.followed by the 150 km EXTRA Rocket

Here is more detail about IMI Rockets: details about EXTRA 150 km rocket guidance: GPS/INS with CEP of less than 10 meters; which looks to be similar to NASR; Therefore NASR is probably also a GPS/GLONASS/Beidou with INS Guidance if that is the trend in this rocket class

The Extra Rocket adapted for Naval use is called the Trigon; Its Brochure shows the flight Profile the rocket can follow to take out the target
https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-...tent/uploads/2015/01/IMI-TRIGON-2-740x501.jpg
http://www.imisystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/TRIGON-1.pdf

The payload is listed at 120 kg; so the Nasr would presumably also have a similarly sized tactical warhead. Also if the range of the Nasr isn't at 150 km, the range should be extended to 150 km to give the SPD some breathing room in case of war and to prevent miscalculations if the enemy gets too close.

Also a smaller vehicle for more mobility and more discreet transport and launch should be studied; something similar to the British army's rocket transport and launch system; LIMAWS-R
https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/LIMAWSR.jpg

The 200-250 km Lora system might also be a system to study if a slightly longer range is needed in a proper missile system rather than a guided rocket. This can also be added to naval ships to add that capability to the navy if required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOKY2RgLzy4

Thrust vectoring Nozzles can be added to even longer range (300+km) missiles to ensure similar accuracy for the same mission profile
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4xNtK6Fh...DM_E4kcsFizZMoQpRe9dEXx0IACLcB/s1600/LRPF.jpg
 
Last edited:
The Nasr is similar to the US Army's M142 HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M142_HIMARS

While The range of the Nasr is listed as 60 km, depending on its diameter its range could be much further. With the use of an efficient rocket motor, GPS based guidance system, and maneuvering flight profile. A range of only 60 km would be nearly within enemy artillery gun range and within cruise missile range of enemy forces. Also putting four missiles on one vehicle seems risky but that must be something the SPD came up with based on their own reasons. Himar's Shorter range rockets are guided by GPS.

Inertial navigation also means it cannot be jammed. You are not appreciating the fine balance of techniques here. There is a reason for the short range. Inertial navigation is highly accurate over short distances.

Here is more detail about IMI Rockets: details about EXTRA 150 km rocket guidance: GPS/INS with CEP of less than 10 meters; which looks to be similar to NASR; Therefore NASR is probably also a GPS/GLONASS/Beidou with INS Guidance if that is the trend in this rocket class

Making it dependent on GPS would be a very bad idea.

The Extra Rocket adapted for Naval use is called the Trigon; Its Brochure shows the flight Profile the rocket can follow to take out the target
https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-...tent/uploads/2015/01/IMI-TRIGON-2-740x501.jpg
http://www.imisystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/TRIGON-1.pdf

The payload is listed at 120 kg; so the Nasr would presumably also have a similarly sized tactical warhead. Also if the range of the Nasr isn't at 150 km, the range should be extended to 150 km to give the SPD some breathing room in case of war and to prevent miscalculations if the enemy gets

It would be interesting what it achieves if fired from air. If the army can get it launched from HALE drones, they shouldn't need CAS from PAF. This is an area that the likes of GIDS should work on.

Also a smaller vehicle for more mobility and more discreet transport and launch should be studied; something similar to the British army's rocket transport and launch system; LIMAWS-R
https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/LIMAWSR.jpg

The current TEL means that the army can quickly bring in the capability as needed from deeper within the country.

The 200-250 km Lora system might also be a system to study if a slightly longer range is needed in a proper missile system rather than a guided rocket. This can also be added to naval ships to add that capability to the navy if required.

The navy seems deadset on the Harbah. Unfortunately, not much is known about it. I really want our forces to utilize hypersonic projectiles for max impact. Now it would be interesting if batteries of Nasr could be fitted on our F-22P frigates. Currently, they don't seem to have much fire power.

Thrust vectoring Nozzles can be added to even longer range (300+km) missiles to ensure similar accuracy for the same mission profile
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4xNtK6Fh...DM_E4kcsFizZMoQpRe9dEXx0IACLcB/s1600/LRPF.jpg
[/QUOTE]

That would be a different missile, with a different mission profile.

Ive seen the Shaheen do it back in 1999.
Nothing curious - accuracy has always been available.

I just wanted to create spoon feed material for our Eastern friends. I wasn't sure if the full significance of the development got drilled into their skulls.
 
Inertial navigation also means it cannot be jammed. You are not appreciating the fine balance of techniques here. There is a reason for the short range. Inertial navigation is highly accurate over short distances.



Making it dependent on GPS would be a very bad idea.



It would be interesting what it achieves if fired from air. If the army can get it launched from HALE drones, they shouldn't need CAS from PAF. This is an area that the likes of GIDS should work on.



The current TEL means that the army can quickly bring in the capability as needed from deeper within the country.



The navy seems deadset on the Harbah. Unfortunately, not much is known about it. I really want our forces to utilize hypersonic projectiles for max impact. Now it would be interesting if batteries of Nasr could be fitted on our F-22P frigates. Currently, they don't seem to have much fire power.


That would be a different missile, with a different mission profile.



I just wanted to create spoon feed material for our Eastern friends. I wasn't sure if the full significance of the development got drilled into their skulls.
Who cares. Lets forget about feeding them ANYTHING. They are the enemy, their deaths are relevant to us. Whether they believe a nuclear warhead coming for them as a vedic event, a shooting star or a chinese copy that we could never achieve; what matters is that they WILL be killed, they WILL suffer death and destruction.
If the entire missile that kills 10 million Indians is a copy or a korth korean painted over is irrelevant.
They died, our objective was achieved. Period.
 
Who cares. Lets forget about feeding them ANYTHING. They are the enemy, their deaths are relevant to us. Whether they believe a nuclear warhead coming for them as a vedic event, a shooting star or a chinese copy that we could never achieve; what matters is that they WILL be killed, they WILL suffer death and destruction.
If the entire missile that kills 10 million Indians is a copy or a korth korean painted over is irrelevant.
They died, our objective was achieved. Period.

But wouldn't it be better if their rank and file actually understood what they are getting into, instead of following the lies they are fed? There is this delusion amongst the common Indian and the best way to counter it is through facts.

Another angle is that our own people get overwhelmed and don't truly understand the capabilities we have. Hopefully this arms them with knowledge and gives them more confidence on our own abilities.

Finally, given the kind of fine control we have here, I have high hopes if we ever ventured into the A2A or S2A territory. The missing piece is an appropriate rocket motor I guess and we should work on that. I get frustrated that Azm has been designed as this monolith bearing fruit decades later when there are so many high value, low hanging fruit that we can reap in the short term. Its only a matter of priorities.
 
But wouldn't it be better if their rank and file actually understood what they are getting into, instead of following the lies they are fed? There is this delusion amongst the common Indian and the best way to counter it is through facts.

Another angle is that our own people get overwhelmed and don't truly understand the capabilities we have. Hopefully this arms them with knowledge and gives them more confidence on our own abilities.

Finally, given the kind of fine control we have here, I have high hopes if we ever ventured into the A2A or S2A territory. The missing piece is an appropriate rocket motor I guess and we should work on that. I get frustrated that Azm has been designed as this monolith bearing fruit decades later when there are so many high value, low hanging fruit that we can reap in the short term. Its only a matter of priorities.

On the topic of motor systems, we have had discussions with Roketsan on it and there may be projects forthcoming on A2A and S2A. I am fearful Azm is becoming a fraud much like other projects and only lining the coffers of MES and other PAF leadership that isn't all "mohibbul watan".
Low hanging fruit in Pakistan is usually left to rot by corruption, if you only knew what billions(not millions) are consumed and squandered in corruption in Spee DEE and its branches; you will do as I have and never look back on Pakistan waiting for the day to burn this green passport to the ground seeing that it is essentially without any decent military leadership. Lions led by lambs should be the motto or brand name of the Pakistan military.

Faith isn't lost easy. Lets just leave it at that, but at least some good.. SOME remains that will ensure we make the Indians regret any attempt of adventures against us for a thousand years. . Those of you who wish to and not have seen too much to have a disdain for Pakistan should not lose heart yet , perhaps things can be turned around as the opportunities and potential is boundless if only people searched for the good in each other and focused on the collective rather than individual ambitions.


Coming to online interaction.
The rank and file of Indians on our site and in anything related to external India are some of the most ignorant people on the face of earth. That is further intensified by their serious social frustrations which are easily directed into xenophobia due to a long standing national narrative of being victims and a need to prove themselves consistently for accreditation as superior to others.

You have better chance of getting a elephant to think its a bald eagle than get an Indian to see the futility of their hate for Pakistan. After 8 years interacting and observing them, I see their reasonable ones as a the exception not the normal on the internet; took me a long time to realize that.

Our people have a parallel problem, they are so convinced they are the most victimized and consider themselves as some chosen people looking for a messiah. Until that they see their ingrained corruption as a burden they must bear and create fake messianic stories about not just their ancestry but their beliefs.
Ive met white bearded traffic sergeants asking for bribes in their pocket because they cannot touch it while in wudu and Ive met supposed "legendary" fighter pilots accepting millions in bribes and their children addressing their servants as "you miserable little bitch".

One cannot convince either side of the good in the other because neither is capable of projecting it beyond frivolous pursuits either in culture or wearing religion on their sleeves.

Unless one can convince the other that "we are just good human beings" regardless of who we pray to, what we eat or wear and so on. I really feel that online interaction is pointless between India and Pakistan.
Opened a thread just to get opinions on it and saw the result.
 
80% of the online Indian is the utter definition of a despicable human being.Their existence is worthless and they thrive on attention. Better to just ignore them.
The truth is 90% of the things which been used by these banya daily bases are made in China.. Even their Gods are made and painted by China
 
This exchange should never have taken place. @Oscar you should have "thread locked" him after his first post
 
The Nasr is similar to the US Army's M142 HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M142_HIMARS

While The range of the Nasr is listed as 60 km, depending on its diameter its range could be much further. With the use of an efficient rocket motor, GPS based guidance system, and maneuvering flight profile. A range of only 60 km would be nearly within enemy artillery gun range and within cruise missile range of enemy forces. Also putting four missiles on one vehicle seems risky but that must be something the SPD came up with based on their own reasons. Himar's Shorter range rockets are guided by GPS.

https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-...ontent/uploads/2015/01/GMLRS-AW-1-740x493.jpg
Internal Look:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ima...ausa_2017/pictures/ATACMS_Lockheed_Martin.JPG


GMLRS
GMLRS-Rocket-2.jpg


NASR could also be similar to the IMI Extra (306 mm diameter, 4.7 meters long) Artillery rocket with a 150 km range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXTRA_artillery_rocket_system

Sort of like this similar IMI system; at 2:58 it shows the 40-50 km Trajectory Corrected Rockets system in the nose of the rocket.followed by the 150 km EXTRA Rocket

Here is more detail about IMI Rockets: details about EXTRA 150 km rocket guidance: GPS/INS with CEP of less than 10 meters; which looks to be similar to NASR; Therefore NASR is probably also a GPS/GLONASS/Beidou with INS Guidance if that is the trend in this rocket class

The Extra Rocket adapted for Naval use is called the Trigon; Its Brochure shows the flight Profile the rocket can follow to take out the target
https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-...tent/uploads/2015/01/IMI-TRIGON-2-740x501.jpg
http://www.imisystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/TRIGON-1.pdf

The payload is listed at 120 kg; so the Nasr would presumably also have a similarly sized tactical warhead. Also if the range of the Nasr isn't at 150 km, the range should be extended to 150 km to give the SPD some breathing room in case of war and to prevent miscalculations if the enemy gets too close.

Also a smaller vehicle for more mobility and more discreet transport and launch should be studied; something similar to the British army's rocket transport and launch system; LIMAWS-R
https://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/LIMAWSR.jpg

The 200-250 km Lora system might also be a system to study if a slightly longer range is needed in a proper missile system rather than a guided rocket. This can also be added to naval ships to add that capability to the navy if required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOKY2RgLzy4

Thrust vectoring Nozzles can be added to even longer range (300+km) missiles to ensure similar accuracy for the same mission profile
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4xNtK6Fh...DM_E4kcsFizZMoQpRe9dEXx0IACLcB/s1600/LRPF.jpg
Dear we have Abdali missile in this range and that is also very modern missile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdali-I
 

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