The confused liberal

[Slav Defence]

@Akheilos your write up has been taken up for competition. We will announce results soon and best amongst you all will be promoted this time.

regards

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Double standards are my birthright, and I shall have them.

Typically Indian. And proud. Me too.

Congrats @Akheilos and I request @Slav Defence to consider making her a Moderator if possible. Else at least TTA. Long overdue.

 

[VCheng]

I think a liberal or a conservative, be it taken in the Western milieu or our own, goes a wide way past just religion or faith.

It is your approach to life. And those among whom you live it.

It is popular for both sides to sneer at each other and question their sincerity or credibility.

But for me the bottom line remains that there is no black or white on the question of liberal or conservative.

One could be extremely liberal in his views towards sex. Or marriage. Till it comes to ones sisters or daughters.

One could be extremely liberal about equality of all faiths. Till it comes to deciding which of them finds space in your own home.

There is a conservative fundamentalist in every liberal.

And a liberal of convenience in every conservative.

What you are describing is hypocrisy, not liberalism or conservatism.

 

[vsdoc]

What you are describing is hypocrisy, not liberalism or conservatism.

Hypocrisy is a human trait.

Its called being human.

There is no 100% liberal or 100% conservative, 100% of the time.

Liberalism and conservatism are highly situational.

 

[VCheng]

Hypocrisy is a human trait.

Its called being human.

There is no 100% liberal or 100% conservative, 100% of the time.

Liberalism and conservatism are highly situational.

Education and enlightenment raise humans above their basal instincts, especially in social structures.

 

[Shamain]

Please note that I am entitled to my views too, respectfully expressed within PDF rules, of course.

My questions remain perfectly valid and as yet unanswered, as expected:

1. Does being "willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own" mean accepting opinions and views that run contrary to good social sense?

When talking abt 'society' the definition needs to add two,three more words.
In context of society it will be "willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own, that lie within society's norms"
I think we all know every society has its defined norms and values that ppl are expected to follow. Though the norms could be suffocating or very accomodating.

2. Must a liberal society accept views that strike at the very heart of making it a liberal society, in name of being open to "new ideas"?

How the liberal society knows that she has become liberal in true sense or has attained a highest level of liberalism?

Maybe a thought that is 'striking at the heart' of a liberal society is striking it their because the society already isn't liberal enough and needs to open itself to more ideas and ofcourse try to become liberal in real sense as this is how she presents herself to the world.

Now if a muslim gets humiliated in a western state cause he grows beard and growing beard is supposedly against the liberal values of that liberal society then every jew who also grows beard must also be humiliated.

If anyone bothered reading the thread it is more to do with the LIBERAL LABEL rather than the liberal or his views....
I start with the hypocrisy in today's youth ...who need to reaffirm their label however dont actually follow it but fall in the same category as the other end.

The definition and then the article which raised a fair question as to the researchers have more liberals and how this tilted the society's need for a balanced research followed by political liberalism....and finally the studies which focuses on psychological need to choice and fit in.

Now what the discussion should have been:

Why people want a label, psychology of why and factors that may influence one to want one as well as the whole confusion of choosing one!

Surprisingly it ended up Instead of some feeling offended and jumping to protect their label just as the article showed the confused liberal


Then quote or mention him not me!

People need a label because they fear social isolation. And also to hobnob with the people they are attracted to.

 

[airmarshal]

Is this your own writing @Akheilos or is it some article?

Every Pakistani liberal, who is actually an ape, needs to read this.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Indeed. Pseudo-Liberal is the term I prefer to use for most 'Pakistani Liberals' whose liberalism extends only as far as imitating Westerners, berating men with beards, and writing anti-Army articles on Dawn from air-conditioned mansions while pretending they are very brave for doing that.


Strawman. Nobody is saying that ''Liberals should accept people who force others to follow one ideology''. What people here are saying, and rightly so, is that some liberals are confused. Hence the title.

Notice how it refers specifically to those labeling themselves liberal while not actually being liberal.

The ''liberals'' in question here are not the ones who simply say 'don't force your religion on us'. The ''liberals'' in question here are the kind whose liberalism never extends beyond imitating the West while calling people who wear hijabs or beards backwards, for example. The kind that would label you an ''extremist mullah Wahabi terrorist'' if you keep a beard and say Alhamdullilah after sneezing.

A liberal who only opposes those that seek to force everyone to follow one particular ideology is not a 'confused liberal'. S/he is a liberal.

I know these days it is abhorrent to imitate the West although exactly what means is never explained. I mean living in the West, speaking English, wearing Western clothes, enjoying Western music, watching Western movies, eating Western fast food buying liberal dollops of Western consumerism makes me what?

And what if I decide to imitate those proud inheritors of the Samurai tradition the Japanese. Or the Chinese what does that make me? Or even the Turks?

Ps. This aversion to Westernism comes from a deep inferiority complex of having been made slaves by the West. That brings about the feeble intellectuel response to past humiliation whereas those people with far more pride like Japanese or the Turks show no particular aversion to the West. There is a correlation between colonial humiliation and this aversion.

 

[livingdead]

wiki says liberalism is founded on basis of equality and liberty and usually they do not adhere to social or national boundaries. Often you see people who fight for such values are fighting against prevailing conservative idea of majority of the region. Which is why a liberal in pakistan might fight for equality of all citizens in eyes of law(which goes against majority religion) and a liberal in UK might fight for international refugees(goes against will of local populace bound by culture).
However just having an idea which goes against prevailing idea of majority does not make one liberal.

nice writeup though, congrats op.

 

[vsdoc]

Education and enlightenment raise humans above their basal instincts, especially in social structures.

I've apparently missed the bus then.

Or should I blame the social structure I was birthed into?

People need a label because they fear social isolation. And also to hobnob with the people they are attracted to.

That may well be in some cases.

What I have found though is more that people love assigning labels on to others. Trying to fit them into convenient pigeon holes.

Bracketing.

It gives them the security of knowing who's who, what's what, and how everything ticks.

Or so they would like to think.

Till a situation arises and nixes their cozy illusions.

Man fears the unknown. I scared of something he does not recognize, or cannot fathom or get a bead on.

Labels help. Superficially. For those doing the stickering.

But a label does not make a blended scotch morph magically into a single malt. The first sip and you recognize hidden layers.

And each sip from thereon new undertones reveal themselves.

I laugh at labels.

I hasten to add I'm neither laughing at the OP or her work. An honest effort.

 

[VCheng]

I've apparently missed the bus then.

Or should I blame the social structure I was birthed into?

That is not for me to say, Sir.

 

[vsdoc]

That is not for me to say, Sir.

I am hardly a sir man. We are probably the same age, give or take a year or two here or there .....

 

[VCheng]

I am hardly a sir man. We are probably the same age, give or take a year or two here or there .....

On the InterWebz, who knows?

 

[vsdoc]

On the InterWebz, who knows?

We can speak on Team BHP. Maybe link up on LinkedIn ....

 

[VCheng]

We can speak on Team BHP. Maybe link up on LinkedIn ....

I assume you know my handle on Team BHP.