The clock is ticking for USA....

[chauism]

india was a one party state too for the first 30 years, but that party had all the policies wrong. its about the policies of the government, not about it doing things.

I guess Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong plus now China all just got lucky then.

India's case just prove that even under democracy, the government could get policy wrong. If both type governments get their policy right, then who do you think can implement those policies more efficiently and more swiftly.

 

[whocares]

I guess Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong plus now China all just got lucky then.

India's case just prove that even under democracy, the government could get policy wrong. If both type governments get their policy right, then who do you think can implement those policies more efficiently and more swiftly.

lol, one of the planning mistakes your government made managed to kill a fair number of people by starvation 'very efficiently'. your goverment has only recently tightened its act.

Japan and South Korea aligned with the US and got the right ideas from there. China also started prospering only after taking the lessons from US. So don't disrespect the main source of ideas on wealth generation

Also, chinese communism faces a direct ideological competition from western style democracy. The pressure on your leaders to prove themselves must've gotten even greater after the USSR fell.

 

[sunny001]

I guess Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong plus now China all just got lucky then.

India's case just prove that even under democracy, the government could get policy wrong. If both type governments get their policy right, then who do you think can implement those policies more efficiently and more swiftly.

But at what expense. People's lives? In Democracy you can achieve all of that, albeit a bit slowly, with all of parties concerned intact.

All we need to do is provide education. Teach them good vs Bad. You see all western countries, also democracies, are as efficient as or even better than China. That's what education does to the country.

 

[chauism]

I am sorry, what was it you're trying to show with that figure. I couldn't understand. China's GDP was in fact 1.08 trillion in 2000. It was only 2.4 trillion until 2007. It was because of appreciation of Yuan and depreciation of dollar that lead to almost doubling of GDP in 3 years to 4.9 trillion in 2010.

India is still on track. India still has not opened completely to the outside market. You can say that India is open to certain section right now. GOI is trying to open all the sectors. Once they do it, it will develop similar to China.

I abhor your thinking that somehow life of a person with merit is more important than the other people. Is a person from rural China is given the same opportunities as a person from urban China. I mean same educational facilities, health, opportunities to decide his merit.

The graph was to show that from early 80's to early 90's, China's economic growth was very slow as I said that only limited reform was implemented. The real growth did not take off until 1992.

Also, the currency in the graph is in Yuan, not USD. The appreciation of Yuan was only from 8.27 in 2005 to 6.78 now. It only appreciated 18% against USD.

 

[chauism]

But at what expense. People's lives? In Democracy you can achieve all of that, albeit a bit slowly, with all of parties concerned intact.

All we need to do is provide education. Teach them good vs Bad. You see all western countries, also democracies, are as efficient as or even better than China. That's what education does to the country.

That is until everyone is educated enough then, but now this is not the case for either India or China.

Even for those western developed countries, I still have my reservation about its democracies. I lived almost half of my life in US, and I am not a big fun of their system either. I like the Singaporean and Japan before 1993's system the best actually.

 

[whocares]

The graph was to show that from early 80's to early 90's, China's economic growth was very slow as I said that only limited reform was implemented. The real growth did not take off until 1992.

Also, the currency in the graph is in Yuan, not USD. The appreciation of Yuan was only from 8.27 in 2005 to 6.78 now. It only appreciated 18% against USD.

You're forgetting Yuan inflation. 2000 yuan != 2010 yuan.

 

[sunny001]

The graph was to show that from early 80's to early 90's, China's economic growth was very slow as I said that only limited reform was implemented. The real growth did not take off until 1992.

Also, the currency in the graph is in Yuan, not USD. The appreciation of Yuan was only from 8.27 in 2005 to 6.78 now. It only appreciated 18% against USD.

But it doesn't change the fact that China developed rapidly in last three years. But, there are many other reasons why china's GDP developed so much in last 3 years. I don't want go into details.

India didn't even reform telecom sector until 2000. Now see how many cell phones are there in India and at a cheapest price you could find anywhere in the world.

It still has to open retail, legal, financial, labor reforms. All of these once reformed will help to get huge deluge of FDI, that would transform India forever like it did for China.

I really admire China for their infrastructure development. I envy them for their easiness to develop such projects. But at the same time I respect my country for respecting individual rights and their freedom.

Good luck to China and India. May asia rise once again. We all be prosperous.

 

[jeypore]

Lets put it this way, China will overtake US in GDP only, not per capita. Because it loves to play the manipulation game of Currency!!!!

 

[sunny001]

That is until everyone is educated enough then, but now this is not the case for either India or China.

Even for those western developed countries, I still have my reservation about its democracies. I lived almost half of my life in US, and I am not a big fun of their system either. I like the Singaporean and Japan before 1993's system the best actually.

It seems you basically think economy is a measure of happiness. I disagree, to me, it is about personal freedom, to be able to do what I want to do, to be able to voice my opposition.

Also, China is 91% educated. How much more educated you want them to be. They can take their own decisions, you don't have spoon feed them anymore.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

But at what expense. People's lives? In Democracy you can achieve all of that, albeit a bit slowly, with all of parties concerned intact.

Funny how you are so concerned with human life, poverty caused by weakness of the Indian government has killed far more people than CCP policies

Poverty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the Global Hunger Index, South Asia has the highest child malnutrition rate of the world's regions.[62] Nearly half of all Indian children are undernourished,[63] one of the highest rates in the world and nearly double the rate of Sub-Saharan Africa.[64] Every year, more than half a million women die in pregnancy or childbirth.[65] Almost 90% of maternal deaths occur in Asia and sub-Saharan Africa, compared to less than 1% in the developed world.[66]

 

[sunny001]

Well, i am worried about the bimaar states in India. The other states compete for investment and job creation but the bimaar ones have such basic law and order problems that their growth is likely to be very sluggish.

I don't think we'll take off the way china did due to these structural problems. But some parts of the country will do very well.

It is a thing of Past. Bihar, recently has been developing as fast as any other state. Uttar pradesh is moving towards it too. Latest Bimaru states are Northeast states, we need to add more infrastructure there. Once we eliminate maoists, we'll see all these states picking up too.

I have to say if every one follows south Indian states ( may in different industries), we'll quickly see huge development in India's GDP.

With GST coming next year, India's GDP will cross $2 trillion before 2015.

Let's hope for the best. Educating our masses should be GOI's immediate priority.

 

[chauism]

You're forgetting Yuan inflation. 2000 yuan != 2010 yuan.

The graph itself is in Yuan, but in not USD

 

[sunny001]

Funny how you are so concerned with human life, poverty caused by weakness of the Indian government has killed far more people than CCP policies

Poverty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the Global Hunger Index, South Asia has the highest child malnutrition rate of the world's regions.[62] Nearly half of all Indian children are undernourished,[63] one of the highest rates in the world and nearly double the rate of Sub-Saharan Africa.[64] Every year, more than half a million women die in pregnancy or childbirth.[65] Almost 90% of maternal deaths occur in Asia and sub-Saharan Africa, compared to less than 1% in the developed world.[66]

I am as critical as you are about India's poverty. I do not wish to condone our government policy. But, it has to do more with our corrupt and vulgar politicians policies than with democracy. Politics are changing now, people are voting only to those parties that supports development. It can be seen more pronouncedly in south Indian states.

People are becoming more vocal about what they want. It wasn't used to be like this, they used adjust to whatever they got. Not anymore.

India will be in more or less the same place China is now in 10 years. It is definitely not going backwards.

When you show me those figures, you see half glass empty, I see half glass full. We cannot do every thing overnight. Things are changing. By 2020, we hope to be in a better place than where you are today in empowering our poor. Also, by giving them voice in politics.

 

[sunny001]

The graph itself is in Yuan, but in USD

What he was trying to say Yuan got inflated. What you used to buy with a yuan in 2000, you might have to buy it for 2 yuans in 2010.

 

[chauism]

But it doesn't change the fact that China developed rapidly in last three years. But, there are many other reasons why china's GDP developed so much in last 3 years. I don't want go into details.

India didn't even reform telecom sector until 2000. Now see how many cell phones are there in India and at a cheapest price you could find anywhere in the world.

It still has to open retail, legal, financial, labor reforms. All of these once reformed will help to get huge deluge of FDI, that would transform India forever like it did for China.

I really admire China for their infrastructure development. I envy them for their easiness to develop such projects. But at the same time I respect my country for respecting individual rights and their freedom.

Good luck to China and India. May asia rise once again. We all be prosperous.

If you look closely, all those measurement of economic reform you mentioned for India, China did not implement those much earlier than India. In facts some of its measurements that India had taken, China still had not opened them up yet such as telecom.

As I said, I have nothing against India or its government system. I just don't think democracy works for China right now. If India can prove that democracy can work as efficiently in its government processing ability as China's system right now, there will be many lessons that China should learn from India's success. Right now it is most important thing for majority of the people in China is to fill their pocket with more money and to have a better living standard than to have some voice in the politics which they don't understand, but that will change in the future when their living standard reach a certain level. The government of China is also trying to reform its political system to suit for that condition as well. So there will be things to learn from India if it succeed in its path. Now, let's just hope everything is going as it is planned for both country.

It seems you basically think economy is a measure of happiness. I disagree, to me, it is about personal freedom, to be able to do what I want to do, to be able to voice my opposition.

Trust me, people will not be very political if they have empty stomachs. In any government system, coveting of their neighbors' goods take precedence over any political rights unless those rights can help with their coveting.

Also, China is 91% educated. How much more educated you want them to be. They can take their own decisions, you don't have spoon feed them anymore.

Literacy does not mean educated. Most people at least have to understand what all the policies are, and what their long term benefits are, not those short sighted benefits that will intermediately effects their life. People have to know what it is for the greater good, not just self interests. People have to be educated enough to develop a social conscience, not just to be apathetic.