The Battle for Bajaur - PA seizes control

[S-2]

"I was not the one to dismiss the PA presentation to parliament as a 'dog and pony show', so the accusations of 'arrogance' need to be leveled at the mirror first."

In your retort to me- "...will likely not care much for this particular 'dog and pony show' either.", I offered no response. I fully agreed with it's usage if not effect. McKiernan will likely tap-dance for the assembled personage. He knows that. So do I. Now you also.

Any briefing by military personnel is often viewed in this term, regardless of relative utility. Those adept at such briefings are often referred to as "power-point rangers" with mild and bemused disparagement. No harm was intended at all nor did the comment actually convey any sense that it was a bad thing. I'm certain, btw, that the briefing was superb, long-overdue, and very professionally presented.

Weighed against your impressions of McKeirnan's value by visiting, I'll stand my ground. Your rendering of his value in visiting with your parliament remains arrogant. You've actually little idea of what, exactly, he can impart and the impact he'll bring in doing so. No reason to expect a sea-change of entrenched positions borne of political survival but those with guile will learn a considerable amount.

"Pointing out US unilateralism in 'going beyond the pale' to assure India gets the necessary waivers for a 'nuclear deal' is not to make an argument for a similar deal (leave it for another discussion), it is point out how one sided the US-Pak relationship has been."

Assumptions Unproved-

1.) "...how one sided the US-Pak relationship has been". Yup. I see that we're finally in agreement.

$15 billion of one-sided CIVIL aid likely coming your way from us. Maybe our greatest challenge ever to do so effectively in an endemically corrupt and graft-ridden environment. I don't know if we can do so successfully so I'm unsure whether we should try. What do you think? I know, I know- you'll believe it when seen. A better chance of that, though, than ever seeing the same from you. One-sided.

2.) "'...going beyond the pale...'"- I'm sorry but you've hardly made the case for unilateralism by your focus on this issue. It's a bi-lateral treaty, first. That means two. In gaining the approval of the IAEA, NSG, Indian parliament, and American congress there's been a bit more than "unilateralism" at play. As to our efforts to gain approval by the NSC, this isn't Von Ribbentrop and Molotov reaching across the table to shake hands. So going "beyond the pale" here is a bit of a stretch to making a deal with the devil.

3.) "...Pointing out US unilateralism..." -Yeah, like our unilateral effort in Afghanistan. Well, nothing stops Pakistan from seeking the same arrangement with the PRC on civilian nuclear energy. Certainly, precedent is set of some kind. It remains to be seen if the PRC would see Pakistan in the same light of a long-term security partner of some stability and capability.

We certainly see those possibilities in India.

"Intelligence failure? Even some of the officers interviewed in those articles were admitting that. So again, what new information is being shared here?"

I've yet to see anybody here suggest that this consitutes a failure of collection by your nat'l intelligence. Can you provide me the link to the article or even a poster here who's done so WRT Bajaur? The implications are two-fold and neither attractive- 1.) either ineptitude or, 2.) collusion.

This happened in an area long-suspected of very aggressive insurgent activity. That it morphed to the extent of these fortifications belies a misunderstanding of enemy objectives in Bajaur (and more generally, FATAland) for some time by the relevant state actors.

We've found taliban will make use of old mujahideen positions as expediency. Given time, though, any defensive position takes on increasing complexity unless so interfered. This is the Israeli complaint of UNIFIL. They don't interfere with this work by Hezbollah. Thus the reconnaissance overflights. NOW THAT, of course, thoroughly pisses off the French. After all, it's tough to turn a blind eye to a blue at 600 mph.

At least the French could tell where these are if asked and you weren't Israeli. Your guys didn't even know down at the troop level.

Damned shame if somebody elsewhere in your government DID know. That's collusion with the enemy in my book.

"...then he will also have to answer how approximately a thousand insurgents moved into FATA from Afghanistan when the Bajaur ops began, and why the US did nothing to prevent that."

What do you mean? Like Rehman and his boys ran a year ago this month from the Korengal to happier hunting grounds in Bajaur? There's a reason or twenty why Bajaur is what it is.

OBL/Zawahiri? Maybe. The only area of illicit opium production of note still in Pakistan? Maybe. Staging areas, logistics bases, and sanctuary for those facing serious combat against U.S. forces in Kunar? Well, MAYBE they've got to have somewhere to run and hide.

They'll also flow to the line of least resistance. We kill them just on our side of the border. We do so all the time. Couldn't be busier. You aren't so delusional to think otherwise so don't be snide. There's no picnic awaiting them when they cross from Bajaur into Kunar. Kunar is a death ground for them but if it's Yanks that you want to fight, there's where the serious fun's to be found.

Bajaur was a piece of cake. However tough it is for them to leave Kunar alive, if successful it's been a luxury to rest up in Bajaur until recently. Finally, until August, the AQAM lines of supply and communication from Kunar back into Bajaur had been unthreatened. Not so now. Where that's the case, troops will always work to secure their supply and line of retreat.

Your comments here are self-serving

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Your rendering of his value in visiting with your parliament remains arrogant. You've actually little idea of what, exactly, he can impart and the impact he'll bring in doing so. No reason to expect a sea-change of entrenched positions borne of political survival but those with guile will learn a considerable amount.

I already pointed out that there is not likely to be much change amongst a certain set of politicians who already oppose the WoT and distrust the US.

Despite your continued refrain of arrogance on my part, you haven't really pointed out what exactly Mckiernan is going to offer that will be of more import that PA briefings to the legislature.

Assumptions Unproved-

1.) "...how one sided the US-Pak relationship has been". Yup. I see that we're finally in agreement.

$15 billion of one-sided CIVIL aid likely coming your way from us. Maybe our greatest challenge ever to do so effectively in an endemically corrupt and graft-ridden environment. I don't know if we can do so successfully so I'm unsure whether we should try. What do you think? I know, I know- you'll believe it when seen. A better chance of that, though, than ever seeing the same from you. One-sided.

Again, when I see tangible movement on anything of import I'll stand corrected - till then, yes it has been one sided.

2.) "'...going beyond the pale...'"- I'm sorry but you've hardly made the case for unilateralism by your focus on this issue. It's a bi-lateral treaty, first. That means two. In gaining the approval of the IAEA, NSG, Indian parliament, and American congress there's been a bit more than "unilateralism" at play. As to our efforts to gain approval by the NSC, this isn't Von Ribbentrop and Molotov reaching across the table to shake hands. So going "beyond the pale" here is a bit of a stretch to making a deal with the devil.

3.) "...Pointing out US unilateralism..." -Yeah, like our unilateral effort in Afghanistan. Well, nothing stops Pakistan from seeking the same arrangement with the PRC on civilian nuclear energy. Certainly, precedent is set of some kind. It remains to be seen if the PRC would see Pakistan in the same light of a long-term security partner of some stability and capability.

We certainly see those possibilities in India.

The Nuclear Deal cam about solely because the US willing to use its influence to force other NSG members, especially the last few holdouts such as Austria and NZ to enact the waivers and ramrod the deal through.

The one sided relationship arises from the fact that the US ignored Pakistani concerns arising from an NA leadership (drug lords and warlords equally responsible for destroying Afghanistan) allied with India gaining influence in Afghanistan. It ignored the background of irredentist claims emanating from Afghanistan by virtue of its refusal to accept the Durand and its past sponsoring of seperatist movements in Pakistan and Khad's involvement with terrorism in Pakistan as well as support for the Baluch insurgency during its early days.

The US refused to address any of Pakistan's concerns in this respect while forcing through international waivers to build a strategic relationship with India - the same party that was directly or indirectly tied to most of Pakistan's concerns in Afghanistan. This contrast is telling.

To me this is pretty straightforward - US interest in building a strategic relationship with India required it to overlook Pakistani strategic and national security concerns in the region, and it did so willfully - this US-Pak relationship has therefore been by all accounts a self-serving one for the US.

I've yet to see anybody here suggest that this consitutes a failure of collection by your nat'l intelligence. Can you provide me the link to the article or even a poster here who's done so WRT Bajaur? The implications are two-fold and neither attractive- 1.) either ineptitude or, 2.) collusion.

This happened in an area long-suspected of very aggressive insurgent activity. That it morphed to the extent of these fortifications belies a misunderstanding of enemy objectives in Bajaur (and more generally, FATAland) for some time by the relevant state actors.

We've found taliban will make use of old mujahideen positions as expediency. Given time, though, any defensive position takes on increasing complexity unless so interfered. This is the Israeli complaint of UNIFIL. They don't interfere with this work by Hezbollah. Thus the reconnaissance overflights. NOW THAT, of course, thoroughly pisses off the French. After all, it's tough to turn a blind eye to a blue at 600 mph.

At least the French could tell where these are if asked and you weren't Israeli. Your guys didn't even know down at the troop level.

Damned shame if somebody elsewhere in your government DID know. That's collusion with the enemy in my book.

Why would any of us know what conclusions the Military has reached over its intelligence failure? We do know that officers in the field have let it slip that there were intel. failures, and I imagine that the setbacks will be analyzed and lessons internalized and hopefully rectified.

I find it quite likely that local political representatives (if there were any left once the Taliban took control of the area), may have been in 'collusion', but it would be nothing but speculation to go beyond that.

What do you mean? Like Rehman and his boys ran a year ago this month from the Korengal to happier hunting grounds in Bajaur? There's a reason or twenty why Bajaur is what it is.

OBL/Zawahiri? Maybe. The only area of illicit opium production of note still in Pakistan? Maybe. Staging areas, logistics bases, and sanctuary for those facing serious combat against U.S. forces in Kunar? Well, MAYBE they've got to have somewhere to run and hide.

They'll also flow to the line of least resistance. We kill them just on our side of the border. We do so all the time. Couldn't be busier. You aren't so delusional to think otherwise so don't be snide. There's no picnic awaiting them when they cross from Bajaur into Kunar. Kunar is a death ground for them but if it's Yanks that you want to fight, there's where the serious fun's to be found.

Bajaur was a piece of cake. However tough it is for them to leave Kunar alive, if successful it's been a luxury to rest up in Bajaur until recently. Finally, until August, the AQAM lines of supply and communication from Kunar back into Bajaur had been unthreatened. Not so now. Where that's the case, troops will always work to secure their supply and line of retreat.

Your comments here are self-serving

They flow to the line of 'least resistance' do they? So apparently that huge movement of militants out of FATA into Afghanistan to carry out attacks was because your side was offering the 'least resistance' eh? And all those complaints about 'do more' should have really been leveled at US/NATO forces, as we had been arguing back then.

No, my comments are not self serving at all. I am willing to acknowledge that Pakistan's policies have been flawed, whether there were other options given the dynamics at the tme is another matter. You on the other hand refuse to acknowledge that the US is anything but an infallible deity, whose every action and policy is righteous and just.

You patently refuse to see how the US willfully ignored almost every single national security concern Pakistan had, while forcing through international waivers to sanctions and restrictions in order to build a strategic relationship with India, and created an environment in Afghanistan that created an extremely valid national security threat.

 

[S-2]

"You on the other hand refuse to acknowledge that the US is anything but an infallible deity, whose every action and policy is righteous and just."

These were comments made to ARMOR BOY by myself yesterday-

"We've had incredible successes and abysmal failures. We've fully anticipated some events and completely missed the picture on others. We've very successfully instituted civil affairs programs in some areas and performed with gross negligence in others. We're in a complete "learning" mode at this point and constantly looking for ways to improve."

Nothing "infallible" there. Completely wrong, therefore. Could you refrain from such hyperbole surrounding my views. It's distasteful, inaccurate, and sloppy.

"Again, when I see tangible movement on anything of import I'll stand corrected - till then, yes it has been one sided."

One-sided aid. Yes. Here's the history of that one-sided arrangement. Enjoy this informative read of the efforts of just ONE U.S. government agency's work in Pakistan-

" USAID IN PAKISTAN

Since 1951, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) has provided nearly $7 billion to support Pakistan’s development efforts. This assistance has strengthened the political, economic and cultural ties between the two nations.

THE FIRST THIRTY YEARS 1951 – 1981
From a modest beginning in 1951, U.S. bilateral assistance to Pakistan grew to almost $400 million a year in the early 1960s. By 1982, U.S. assistance to Pakistan totaled approximately $5.1 billion. The United States also supported Pakistan's development through contributions to the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank, and United Nations programs.

During the 1950s, the United States focused on helping the newly independent Pakistan overcome the economic consequences of its partition from India. The United States provided funds and materials for infrastructure, technical support to ease skill shortages and food. The Government of Pakistan used the money it earned from food sales to provide public services. This assistance laid the foundation for Pakistan's future agricultural and industrial growth.

During the 1960s, the United States supported Pakistan's efforts to boost agriculture and rapidly expand its industrial sector. The United States invested heavily in water, power, transportation, and communications. At its height, during the first half of the 1960s, U.S. assistance was more than half of all foreign aid to Pakistan, covering one-third of Pakistan's development budget and financing half its import bill.

During the 1970s, the United States turned its attention back to agriculture. In addition to helping Pakistan increase its fertilizer production, U.S. assistance helped Pakistan import fertilizer and improve its water and irrigation systems. USAID worked with Pakistani agricultural scientists and engineers to develop water and irrigation systems on farms. These systems were replicated throughout Pakistan and by other countries and donors.

As the single largest donor ($712 million, or 31 percent of all contributions) to the Indus Basin Development project, the United States played a leading role in the construction of the Mangle and Tarbela dams. The dams continue to make significant contributions to Pakistan's energy and agricultural sectors today.

In the same period, the U.S. also supported nutrition research, malaria control, population planning, and health care for rural areas.

The legacy of the early assistance program is still visible in many areas of Pakistan's economy. For example, USAID helped introduce high yield food grain varieties (the “green revolution&#8221 that helped make Pakistan self-sufficient in wheat and one of the world's leading exporters of rice. USAID also played an important role in bringing about the widespread use of fertilizer.

START OF A SECOND PHASE 1982 – 1987
The 1982-1987 phase of U.S. assistance to Pakistan was a milestone in U.S.-Pakistan relations. Cooperation between the two countries was close as they negotiated a $1.62 billion program in 1981.

Pakistani institutions carried out most of the activities. Almost all projects were national in scope, with activities in all four provinces. To help meet pressing needs in less developed parts of the country, USAID funded several region-specific “area development” projects at the government's request. The goal was to respond to the priorities set by the government in its annual and five-year development plans.

About 70 percent of the funds were used to buy fertilizer, edible oils, and heavy machinery and equipment. In many cases, the money Pakistan earned from the sale of these items was used to support important projects in agriculture, education, and other areas.

Much of the assistance directly funded local costs, including constructing and improving canals and waterways. Another portion was used for training. Finally, about 11 percent of the funds went to Pakistani contractors for technical assistance.

About 55 percent of the 1982-87 programs were purely grants, and the remainder consisted of soft loans, or loans with generous repayment terms. Given the generosity of the terms of these loans and the high percentage of grants throughout that period, U.S. assistance was the most concessional of any major donor. The economic assistance program planned for 1988-1993 had even more generous terms.

ENERGY
From 1982-1987, about one-fourth of U.S. economic assistance went to Pakistan’s energy sector.

USAID, together with the Water and Power Development Authority (WAPDA) and the Asian Development Bank (ADB), built a new 900 megawatt power plant at Guddu in upper Sindh.

USAID worked with WAPDA to improve the efficiency of its new power distribution wing, including a $6 million computer system for planning, design and training for more than 30,000 WAPDA personnel. WAPDA received $19.3 million in equipment to help reduce energy loss during distribution and to improve the efficiency of some of its thermal power plants.

USAID helped establish a geodata center at the Geological Survey of Pakistan and provided an additional $3.3 million for coal-related equipment for the Pakistan Hydrocarbon Institute in Islamabad and Karachi and $4.5 million to the Fuel Research Center at the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research laboratories in Karachi.

USAID financed $16.5 million in new oil and gas development and seismic equipment for the Oil and Gas Development Corporation and its private joint ventures.

In the field of energy planning and conservation, USAID helped initiate a national energy conservation program as well as establish an energy conservation center (ENERCON) in Islamabad. Under the Seventh Five Year Plan, USAID helped the government create an energy wing within the Ministry of Planning to coordinate Pakistan's national energy strategy.

AGRICULTURE
Half of employed Pakistanis work in agriculture. Their efforts contribute more than one-fourth of Pakistan's gross domestic product. Because this field was so important to Pakistan's economy, USAID focused nearly half its program on increasing agricultural productivity. This directly benefited farmers throughout Pakistan.

Agricultural Research and Education:
USAID worked with the Pakistan Agricultural Research Council and the Agricultural University in Peshawar to make agricultural research and education directly relevant to farmers.

To improve agricultural productivity in dry areas, USAID supported the Arid Zone Research Institute in Quetta. USAID also gave equipment worth more than $4 million and other support to the Pakistan Forestry Institute in Peshawar and to the Agricultural Universities at Faisalabad in Punjab and Tando Jam in Sindh.

Funding from USAID also helped establish a branch of the International Irrigation Management Institute (IIMI) in Lahore.

Irrigation: Pakistan has the largest contiguous irrigation system in the world.

From 1982-87, USAID assisted Pakistan in improving 4,000 kilometers of canals and waterways throughout the country, upgrading irrigation workshops in the provinces and introducing computer-aided design techniques. More than $50 million in computers, vehicles, heavy machinery, and other equipment was provided.

To improve water management on farms, 1,319 waterways were renovated, 75,000 acres of land leveled, and training centers and demonstration farms were established in all four provinces

Other Areas: Accurate data collection is essential for developing good policies. With USAID support, the agricultural branch of Pakistan's Statistics Division improved and computerized its reporting. At the same time, USAID assisted Pakistan in establishing an Economic Analysis Network to strengthen the analytical skills of Pakistani researchers throughout the country.

AREA DEVELOPMENT
Balochistan: Here USAID funded a number of small rural infrastructure projects, including renovation of schools and irrigation facilities. Construction contracts were signed for the 101-kilometer Bela-Awaran road and the Kech River bridge outside of Turbat. Design work was planned on the 255 kilometer Awaran-Turbat road, which would have significantly reduced the travel time between Turbat and Karachi.

North-West Frontier Province: In this area, USAID aimed its efforts at roads, schools, village electrification, skills training programs, tree-planting, water supply systems and irrigation improvements. These projects were in the tribal areas and in poppy growing regions such as Gadoon-Amazai and Dir.

Sindh: During the 1982-1987 period, USAID began improving rural roads in interior Sindh. Long-range goals included the rehabilitation or reconstruction of nearly 4,000 kilometers of rural roads, along with the establishment of a better system for operation and maintenance.

A CONTINUING RELATIONSHIP 1988 – 1993
From 1988-1993, the United States provided an additional $2.28 billion for development projects. $480 million was used to import needed agricultural items. The rest was in grants. During this period, USAID continued to build on successful programs begun in earlier phases. USAID also invested in expanding private investment in Pakistan, guarantees for housing loans to strengthen the housing market, mobilizing shelter resources and the Institutional Excellence Project.

INTERIM PROGRAM (1993-2002): THE PAKISTAN NGO INITIATIVE (PNI)
Under a humanitarian assistance regulation [P.L. 106-429, Sec. 541(a)], USAID worked with, and through, non-governmental organizations (NGOs) on basic education and community-based learning; literacy and skills development; reproductive health (including family planning), maternal and child health care; income earning activities; strengthening of local NGOs and community organizations; and policy advocacy at the national, provincial, and local levels.

Beneficiaries of USAID assistance were the rural and urban poor, especially women and girls in Sindh Province in the south and the Northwest Frontier Province in the north. Approximately 80 local NGOs and the communities in which they work benefited from PNI funding and technical assistance.

Key Results: The PNI program increased the percentage of girls attending and completing primary school in the rural areas; strengthened women's influence in household decisions; expanded couples' access to three or more modern methods of contraception; increased the number of women earning higher incomes; and increased the number of NGOs and community organizations working to strengthen social services and change policies.

START OF THE NEW PROGRAM 2002 - 2006
After a seven-year pause due to US-imposed nuclear non-proliferation sanctions, USAID reopened its Mission in Pakistan in July 2002. The new program focuses on four sectors: education, health, governance and economic growth."

USAID Backgrounder

Damn shame about that USAID worker killed in Peshawar yesterday. God bless him and his family.

Your comments on aid are also grossly inaccurate and more than a bit distasteful. I hope that you'll do a bit better job on your research henceforth. Given your personal disdain, I'd deny further aid except that I recognize that most Pakistanis don't have the luxury of sneering at our efforts from Auburn Hills.

Durand Line? Bummer that you couldn't cut a deal with the Taliban. If not with them then, who or when?

N.A. and dope? Stop your bad self. Throwing rocks from a glass house isn't wise. The taliban were and remain dope-dirty to the nth degree. Corruption and drugs remain a horrible problem in Pakistan. You've read the UNODC country profile. Your heroin labs are a national institution stretching back DECADES. Cruelty and barbarism isn't an N.A. specialty either in this neighborhood.

Don't like them? Use your pashtu plurality to vote them out when the time comes. Until then, deal with it, throw a fit, or go to war with Afghanistan (and us).

At this point I'm satisfied that your internal problems are sufficient that, if Pakistan won't/can't be of assistance with Afghanistan as a good and mature neighbor, at least you can't really interfere either for the present. That'll have to suffice given the continuing disconnect in perceptions while your country burns.

Enjoy your day.

 

[dr.umer]

This is a link to the ABC series that covers 2nd Plt from the same B Co. in the 173rd. In fact, Sebastian Junger is accompanying these men-
Afghanistan: The Other War Pt. 1- ABC TV

Don't make it a US propaganda thread and stick to title of thread please. You better believe what ABC has to tell you about US commitment to "rules of engagement". Care to see other side of picture ? Afghan probe confirms 37 civilians killed in US air strike. It has become that routine in Afghanistan about which you are probably kept unaware.

 

[S-2]

Get off my back. Armor Boy wanted some looks at our side. I gave it.

Backlash From Civilian Afghan Deaths- TIME

"Nearly 6,000 people have been killed in Afghanistan over the past year and a half, according to press accounts and human rights groups. About 1,500 were civilians."

1500 civilians in one and one-half years. At this pace, we'll catch the Soviets in, oh...about 1000 years. A cause celebre' tragically manipulated by those whose interests are upon enslaving the afghan people.

Hardly "routine" then, compared to Afghanistan's past nor the present in Bajaur. I'm aware. So much so as to separate the reality from the constantly-pressed perception.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"You on the other hand refuse to acknowledge that the US is anything but an infallible deity, whose every action and policy is righteous and just."

These were comments made to ARMOR BOY by myself yesterday-

"We've had incredible successes and abysmal failures. We've fully anticipated some events and completely missed the picture on others. We've very successfully instituted civil affairs programs in some areas and performed with gross negligence in others. We're in a complete "learning" mode at this point and constantly looking for ways to improve."

Nothing "infallible" there. Completely wrong, therefore. Could you refrain from such hyperbole surrounding my views. It's distasteful, inaccurate, and sloppy.

"Again, when I see tangible movement on anything of import I'll stand corrected - till then, yes it has been one sided."

One-sided aid. Yes. Here's the history of that one-sided arrangement. Enjoy this informative read of the efforts of just ONE U.S. government agency's work in Pakistan-

" USAID IN PAKISTAN

Since 1951, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) has provided nearly $7 billion to support Pakistan’s development efforts. This assistance has strengthened the political, economic and cultural ties between the two nations.

THE FIRST THIRTY YEARS 1951 – 1981
From a modest beginning in 1951, U.S. bilateral assistance to Pakistan grew to almost $400 million a year in the early 1960s. By 1982, U.S. assistance to Pakistan totaled approximately $5.1 billion. The United States also supported Pakistan's development through contributions to the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank, and United Nations programs.

During the 1950s, the United States focused on helping the newly independent Pakistan overcome the economic consequences of its partition from India. The United States provided funds and materials for infrastructure, technical support to ease skill shortages and food. The Government of Pakistan used the money it earned from food sales to provide public services. This assistance laid the foundation for Pakistan's future agricultural and industrial growth.

During the 1960s, the United States supported Pakistan's efforts to boost agriculture and rapidly expand its industrial sector. The United States invested heavily in water, power, transportation, and communications. At its height, during the first half of the 1960s, U.S. assistance was more than half of all foreign aid to Pakistan, covering one-third of Pakistan's development budget and financing half its import bill.

During the 1970s, the United States turned its attention back to agriculture. In addition to helping Pakistan increase its fertilizer production, U.S. assistance helped Pakistan import fertilizer and improve its water and irrigation systems. USAID worked with Pakistani agricultural scientists and engineers to develop water and irrigation systems on farms. These systems were replicated throughout Pakistan and by other countries and donors.

As the single largest donor ($712 million, or 31 percent of all contributions) to the Indus Basin Development project, the United States played a leading role in the construction of the Mangle and Tarbela dams. The dams continue to make significant contributions to Pakistan's energy and agricultural sectors today.

In the same period, the U.S. also supported nutrition research, malaria control, population planning, and health care for rural areas.

The legacy of the early assistance program is still visible in many areas of Pakistan's economy. For example, USAID helped introduce high yield food grain varieties (the “green revolution&#8221 that helped make Pakistan self-sufficient in wheat and one of the world's leading exporters of rice. USAID also played an important role in bringing about the widespread use of fertilizer.

START OF A SECOND PHASE 1982 – 1987
The 1982-1987 phase of U.S. assistance to Pakistan was a milestone in U.S.-Pakistan relations. Cooperation between the two countries was close as they negotiated a $1.62 billion program in 1981.

Pakistani institutions carried out most of the activities. Almost all projects were national in scope, with activities in all four provinces. To help meet pressing needs in less developed parts of the country, USAID funded several region-specific “area development” projects at the government's request. The goal was to respond to the priorities set by the government in its annual and five-year development plans.

About 70 percent of the funds were used to buy fertilizer, edible oils, and heavy machinery and equipment. In many cases, the money Pakistan earned from the sale of these items was used to support important projects in agriculture, education, and other areas.

Much of the assistance directly funded local costs, including constructing and improving canals and waterways. Another portion was used for training. Finally, about 11 percent of the funds went to Pakistani contractors for technical assistance.

About 55 percent of the 1982-87 programs were purely grants, and the remainder consisted of soft loans, or loans with generous repayment terms. Given the generosity of the terms of these loans and the high percentage of grants throughout that period, U.S. assistance was the most concessional of any major donor. The economic assistance program planned for 1988-1993 had even more generous terms.

ENERGY
From 1982-1987, about one-fourth of U.S. economic assistance went to Pakistan’s energy sector.

USAID, together with the Water and Power Development Authority (WAPDA) and the Asian Development Bank (ADB), built a new 900 megawatt power plant at Guddu in upper Sindh.

USAID worked with WAPDA to improve the efficiency of its new power distribution wing, including a $6 million computer system for planning, design and training for more than 30,000 WAPDA personnel. WAPDA received $19.3 million in equipment to help reduce energy loss during distribution and to improve the efficiency of some of its thermal power plants.

USAID helped establish a geodata center at the Geological Survey of Pakistan and provided an additional $3.3 million for coal-related equipment for the Pakistan Hydrocarbon Institute in Islamabad and Karachi and $4.5 million to the Fuel Research Center at the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research laboratories in Karachi.

USAID financed $16.5 million in new oil and gas development and seismic equipment for the Oil and Gas Development Corporation and its private joint ventures.

In the field of energy planning and conservation, USAID helped initiate a national energy conservation program as well as establish an energy conservation center (ENERCON) in Islamabad. Under the Seventh Five Year Plan, USAID helped the government create an energy wing within the Ministry of Planning to coordinate Pakistan's national energy strategy.

AGRICULTURE
Half of employed Pakistanis work in agriculture. Their efforts contribute more than one-fourth of Pakistan's gross domestic product. Because this field was so important to Pakistan's economy, USAID focused nearly half its program on increasing agricultural productivity. This directly benefited farmers throughout Pakistan.

Agricultural Research and Education:
USAID worked with the Pakistan Agricultural Research Council and the Agricultural University in Peshawar to make agricultural research and education directly relevant to farmers.

To improve agricultural productivity in dry areas, USAID supported the Arid Zone Research Institute in Quetta. USAID also gave equipment worth more than $4 million and other support to the Pakistan Forestry Institute in Peshawar and to the Agricultural Universities at Faisalabad in Punjab and Tando Jam in Sindh.

Funding from USAID also helped establish a branch of the International Irrigation Management Institute (IIMI) in Lahore.

Irrigation: Pakistan has the largest contiguous irrigation system in the world.

From 1982-87, USAID assisted Pakistan in improving 4,000 kilometers of canals and waterways throughout the country, upgrading irrigation workshops in the provinces and introducing computer-aided design techniques. More than $50 million in computers, vehicles, heavy machinery, and other equipment was provided.

To improve water management on farms, 1,319 waterways were renovated, 75,000 acres of land leveled, and training centers and demonstration farms were established in all four provinces

Other Areas: Accurate data collection is essential for developing good policies. With USAID support, the agricultural branch of Pakistan's Statistics Division improved and computerized its reporting. At the same time, USAID assisted Pakistan in establishing an Economic Analysis Network to strengthen the analytical skills of Pakistani researchers throughout the country.

AREA DEVELOPMENT
Balochistan: Here USAID funded a number of small rural infrastructure projects, including renovation of schools and irrigation facilities. Construction contracts were signed for the 101-kilometer Bela-Awaran road and the Kech River bridge outside of Turbat. Design work was planned on the 255 kilometer Awaran-Turbat road, which would have significantly reduced the travel time between Turbat and Karachi.

North-West Frontier Province: In this area, USAID aimed its efforts at roads, schools, village electrification, skills training programs, tree-planting, water supply systems and irrigation improvements. These projects were in the tribal areas and in poppy growing regions such as Gadoon-Amazai and Dir.

Sindh: During the 1982-1987 period, USAID began improving rural roads in interior Sindh. Long-range goals included the rehabilitation or reconstruction of nearly 4,000 kilometers of rural roads, along with the establishment of a better system for operation and maintenance.

A CONTINUING RELATIONSHIP 1988 – 1993
From 1988-1993, the United States provided an additional $2.28 billion for development projects. $480 million was used to import needed agricultural items. The rest was in grants. During this period, USAID continued to build on successful programs begun in earlier phases. USAID also invested in expanding private investment in Pakistan, guarantees for housing loans to strengthen the housing market, mobilizing shelter resources and the Institutional Excellence Project.

INTERIM PROGRAM (1993-2002): THE PAKISTAN NGO INITIATIVE (PNI)
Under a humanitarian assistance regulation [P.L. 106-429, Sec. 541(a)], USAID worked with, and through, non-governmental organizations (NGOs) on basic education and community-based learning; literacy and skills development; reproductive health (including family planning), maternal and child health care; income earning activities; strengthening of local NGOs and community organizations; and policy advocacy at the national, provincial, and local levels.

Beneficiaries of USAID assistance were the rural and urban poor, especially women and girls in Sindh Province in the south and the Northwest Frontier Province in the north. Approximately 80 local NGOs and the communities in which they work benefited from PNI funding and technical assistance.

Key Results: The PNI program increased the percentage of girls attending and completing primary school in the rural areas; strengthened women's influence in household decisions; expanded couples' access to three or more modern methods of contraception; increased the number of women earning higher incomes; and increased the number of NGOs and community organizations working to strengthen social services and change policies.

START OF THE NEW PROGRAM 2002 - 2006
After a seven-year pause due to US-imposed nuclear non-proliferation sanctions, USAID reopened its Mission in Pakistan in July 2002. The new program focuses on four sectors: education, health, governance and economic growth."

USAID Backgrounder

Damn shame about that USAID worker killed in Peshawar yesterday. God bless him and his family.

Your comments on aid are also grossly inaccurate and more than a bit distasteful. I hope that you'll do a bit better job on your research henceforth. Given your personal disdain, I'd deny further aid except that I recognize that most Pakistanis don't have the luxury of sneering at our efforts from Auburn Hills.

Durand Line? Bummer that you couldn't cut a deal with the Taliban. If not with them then, who or when?

N.A. and dope? Stop your bad self. Throwing rocks from a glass house isn't wise. The taliban were and remain dope-dirty to the nth degree. Corruption and drugs remain a horrible problem in Pakistan. You've read the UNODC country profile. Your heroin labs are a national institution stretching back DECADES. Cruelty and barbarism isn't an N.A. specialty either in this neighborhood.

Don't like them? Use your pashtu plurality to vote them out when the time comes. Until then, deal with it, throw a fit, or go to war with Afghanistan (and us).

At this point I'm satisfied that your internal problems are sufficient that, if Pakistan won't/can't be of assistance with Afghanistan as a good and mature neighbor, at least you can't really interfere either for the present. That'll have to suffice given the continuing disconnect in perceptions while your country burns.

Enjoy your day.

What hogwash and poppycock - when confronted with the abysmal failure of US policy in Afghanistan, and how your actions since the invasion have been entirely one sided and self serving, the best you can do is dredge up aid from 1951! Yeah what ever happened to that '15 billion' you were trumpeting?

And in case you forgot, my comments of self-serving, one sided US policy have been entirely in the context of US policy since the current Afghan invasion.

I expected better of you - the fact is that you know your nation has willfully compromised Pakistan's national security by putting in power drug lords and warlords responsible for destroying Afghanistan, who were in collusion with India, and turned a blind eye to India's activities in the region because of a US desire to build a strategic relationship with her. Your nation was quite willing to circumvent international restrictions and sanctions in a blatant display of double standards to kiss Indian ***, but you couldn't use your influence with the GoA to ensure that the Durand Line was respected - and then you have the gall to complain about why you couldn't get full Pakistani cooperation.

And just can't get beyond the personal insults when cornered can you? First it was the absurd 'soldier' comment, and now its my location. My nation has its warts and flawed policies and all - but atleast I don't go around pretending like my **** doesn't stink like you and that closet racist Parihaka and his 'Western Civilization' crap do.

Cut down that world record poppy crop in Afghanistan, and there won't be any drug labs anymore either - by the way, those drug labs and the weapons trade are thriving in the north of Afghanistan, and supplying the Taliban, under the watchful eyes of your NA pals, as various articles in your own Western media have testified. So maybe your self-righteous self can fix your own house before pointing fingers at others.

 

[S-2]

"What hogwash and poppycock - when confronted with the abysmal failure of US policy in Afghanistan, and how your actions since the invasion have been entirely one sided and self serving, the best you can do is dredge up aid from 1951!"

Blank cheques and more of your advice on what's best for Afghanistan isn't a good idea. When speaking of policies towards Afghanistan, no nation has a record of self-serving and manipulative actions quite like Pakistan's. 40 other nations are moderately to fully in agreement of our ambitions for Afghanistan to the extent of their participation in Afghanistan. Conversely, nobody supports your ambitions for Afghanistan. They're bankrupt and corrosive.

Consult Pakistan on Afghanistan's leaders? We're at war with your last lot.

A.M., I'm sorry but you absolutely have no interests in the affairs of about half of that nation's people. They are, in fact, your enemy and it still shows. Therefore, those like you've no credibility on the issue. None.

As for yourselves, is Muse correct that 1% of your population pays taxes? And you're broke? "hogwash and poppycock" indeed.

Says it all.

 

[RescueRanger]

"What hogwash and poppycock - when confronted with the abysmal failure of US policy in Afghanistan, and how your actions since the invasion have been entirely one sided and self serving, the best you can do is dredge up aid from 1951!"

Blank cheques and more of your advice on what's best for Afghanistan isn't a good idea. When speaking of policies towards Afghanistan, no nation has a record of self-serving and manipulative actions quite like Pakistan's. 40 other nations are moderately to fully in agreement of our ambitions for Afghanistan to the extent of their participation in Afghanistan. Conversely, nobody supports your ambitions for Afghanistan. They're bankrupt and corrosive.

Consult Pakistan on Afghanistan's leaders? We're at war with your last lot.

A.M., I'm sorry but you absolutely have no interests in the affairs of about half of that nation's people. They are, in fact, your enemy and it still shows. Therefore, those like you've no credibility on the issue. None.

As for yourselves, is Muse correct that 1% of your population pays taxes? And you're broke? "hogwash and poppycock" indeed.

Says it all.

Here we go again! Please S2 get your facts Firstly AM does not represent 1% of the population and as far as i know no body made you an authority in that respect so please stop with all this nonsensical horse-****.

Now with regards to remittances and fiscal policy, before you go off quoting someone else... For your Information:

November 01, 2008 Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) has collected Rs 87.689 billion tax

Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) has collected Rs 87.689 billion tax (inclusive of direct and indirect taxes) against the target Rs 78.2 billion for the month of October 2008, says a press release issued here Saturday.

The FBR has so far collected Rs 349.8 billion as against the Rs 329.3 billion target set for the period July-October 2008 in the current fiscal year, showing an increase of over Rs 20 billion. The details/break-down of the figures are attached.

Source: Welcome to Federal Board of Revenue! Revenue Division! Government of Pakistan

Now i wonder if only 1% of Pakistan's population is paying direct "Income" Tax then i wonder how that number can expect to inject 87+ billion rupees into the economy via direct remittance tax?

Oh and by, how can you sit and lecture us on Self Service, after what the US did in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq 1/2, Afghanistan, Middle-East, Russian Block, Mynmar, Tiwan... And i can go on! Compared to u all Pakistan is a saint!

 

[Keysersoze]

Before this thread descends into total vitriol I suggest a moments reflection.Or I will close it down

 

[RescueRanger]

S2, before you quoted those hefty figures which must have taken you awhile to seek from the dusty archives of USAID. I want to ask are you familiar with the term Disaster Capitalism? Something conjured up by the boffins at Washington and secondly don’t forget my friend USAID isn’t a saint, they aren’t injecting this money into a "Failing" country for no reason.

If that were the case, you wouldn’t have a regional director "EX PAT US Citizen" no doubt living in Peshawar, we all knows the role Humanitarian Org's play in information collation.

For Example, how much of those funds were spent on outsourced consultants, and the equipment purchased was it Pakistani in origin? My guess no! Because just like in 2005 EQ the Aid given to Pakistan was re-absorbed by the providers in a shameless act of Disaster Capitalism by demanding that rebuilding and reconstruction materials, consultants and expertise be obtained from the donor counties.

A few quotes from an excellent journalist and author Naomi Klein:
“Rapid response to wars and natural disasters has traditionally been the domain of United Nations agencies, which worked with NGOs to provide emergency aid, build temporary housing and the like. But now reconstruction work has been revealed as a tremendously lucrative industry, too important to be left to the do-gooders at the UN. So today it is the World Bank, already devoted to the principle of poverty-alleviation through profit-making, that leads the charge.” - Naomi Klein, The Rise of Disaster Capitalism: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism
“It certainly seems that ever-larger portions of the globe are under active reconstruction: being rebuilt by a parallel government made up of a familiar cast of for-profit consulting firms, engineering companies, mega-NGOs, government and UN aid agencies and international financial institutions. And from the people living in these reconstruction sites--Iraq to Aceh, Afghanistan to Haiti--a similar chorus of complaints can be heard. The work is far too slow, if it is happening at all. Foreign consultants live high on cost-plus expense accounts and thousand- dollar-a-day salaries, while locals are shut out of much-needed jobs, training and decision-making. Expert "democracy builders" lecture governments on the importance of transparency and "good governance," yet most contractors and NGOs refuse to open their books to those same governments, let alone give them control over how their aid money is spent. “ - Naomi Klein, The Rise of Disaster Capitalism: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism
One word my friend "Profit". And by the way nothing is free in this life, so stop pretending USAID is doing Pakistan a massive favour... You Scratch my back and I will scratch yours...

 

[S-2]

"Oh and by, how can you sit and lecture us on Self Service, after what the US did in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq 1/2, Afghanistan, Middle-East, Russian Block, Mynmar, Tiwan... And i can go on! Compared to u all Pakistan is a saint"

Rant.

" i wonder how that number can expect to inject 87+ billion rupees into the economy via direct remittance tax?"

It can't. Read your own post. Direct and INDIRECT. By my calculations that's about $1 Bil in revenue for October. Separate one from the other before claiming all, please?

More to the point, Rescue Ranger, I'm only repeating Muse's contention. Is this correct or not?

 

[DarkStar]

tax is tax, wether deducted from one's income , or the sales tax on purchases. Fact is, 100 percent of people in Pakistan pay taxes, directly and indirectly, and maybe a little too much.

 

[S-2]

I think that I'll adhere to Keysersoze's warnings there about this thread. There's an active battle being now fought in Bajaur that deserves continued discussion.

If any of you wish to call me out somewhere else on any other matter, please feel free to do so but I'll not reply here and likely forget it if not reminded.

Now I would like to ask how a collection target like the construction of extensive fortifications inside a FATA agency could persist for about 9 months (or more) so unobtrusively that P.A. troops fell into a hornet's nest without foreknowledge of any sort to the quality and depth of these preparations?

Is that a reasonable possibility? If not, how then could this occur and what are the implications for Bajaur and elsewhere?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Blank cheques and more of your advice on what's best for Afghanistan isn't a good idea. When speaking of policies towards Afghanistan, no nation has a record of self-serving and manipulative actions quite like Pakistan's. 40 other nations are moderately to fully in agreement of our ambitions for Afghanistan to the extent of their participation in Afghanistan. Conversely, nobody supports your ambitions for Afghanistan. They're bankrupt and corrosive.

Consult Pakistan on Afghanistan's leaders? We're at war with your last lot.

A.M., I'm sorry but you absolutely have no interests in the affairs of about half of that nation's people. They are, in fact, your enemy and it still shows. Therefore, those like you've no credibility on the issue. None.

As for yourselves, is Muse correct that 1% of your population pays taxes? And you're broke? "hogwash and poppycock" indeed.

Says it all.

Considering you put in place drug lords and warlords that your own media and officials do not trust anymore, whose corruption and ineptitude is alienating Afghans at an ever faster clip, who were equally responsible for destroying Afghanistan, who are possibly primarily responsible for the weapons and drug trade funding the Taliban, you really have no room to point fingers at Pakistan for 'flawed policies'. Though it isn't surprising really, as I said before, the US could put out **** for foreign policy and you'd lap it up as 'chocolate' blinded as you are in defending whatever crap it dishes out.

RR quite poignantly said:

"Oh and by, how can you sit and lecture us on Self Service, after what the US did in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq 1/2, Afghanistan, Middle-East, Russian Block, Mynmar, Tiwan... And i can go on! Compared to u all Pakistan is a saint"

Add to that your 'manifest destiny' in Latin America. What percentage of the indigenous population of Guatemala was massacred by forces supported by the US? What did Clinton apologize to the Guatemalan people for? The Samoza's ring a bell?

Your nation's hands are dripping with innocent blood, and again, you have the gall to point fingers at Pakistan. The one ranting and trying present crap as gold is you - a continued illustration of your inability to acknowledge your nation's failures.

What are our 'ambition's in Afghanistan' anyway? Since you apparently have insight into the farthest reaches of our mind, that apparently we don't.

Pakistan's intent has always been to have a stable nation on our western border. You may have a selective memory when it comes to the history of South Asia to serve your own bankrupt arguments, so let me remind you - until the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan Pakistan had attempted little intervention in Afghanistan - it had all been an Afghan-India show. Starting with the refusal to accept Pakistan at her creation, the subsequent sheltering and support for Baluch sardar's and their insurgency, the bombings by Khad in various cities, the failed attempt at starting a seperatist movement in the NWFP.

Pakistan stepped into a country destroyed and torn apart by warlords and crime, we sheltered her people, and we are still sheltering her people. Our society and nation paid for the instability and distress of Afghanistan - how many Iraqi refugees did the US shelter after all these years of occupation an war?

You, and those who have formulated your nation's policies, have show an abysmal understanding of the regional dynamics, or what Pakistan sought to achieve in Afghanistan - in fact, you still have no clue going by your comments above. More likely you just can't stop admiring that aforementioned crap as chocolate to bother understanding.

By the way, keep deflecting and going off on tangents when you run out of answers - quite fitting given the similar policies of your nation in Afghanistan.

 

[S-2]

"Your nation's hands are dripping with innocent blood..."

Your's aren't lily-white.

I'm disgusted to think of you spending another minute in my country.

Enjoy your evening.