The Battle for Bajaur - PA seizes control

[Anwar2]

Dear asaad-ul-islam:
Following a Sunnah of not bowing head to tyranny does not mean that Baitullah Mehsud or any other Taliban leader is being COMPARED to Hazrat Imam Hussein. This is what I wrote:
“”My dear there is No Comparison as such. Betullah Mahsud is not equal even to dust on the shoes of Hazrat Imam Hussein.
When you go to mosque and say your Sunnah, you are following the practice of the Holy Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Does this mean that you are “Comparing” yourself to the Holy Prophet?
So, if these “bad guys” have adopted the Sunnah of Imam Hussein never to bow head to Tyranny, what’s wrong with that?””

 

[Anwar2]

Dear waraich66
“”but here problem is how to tackle mad super power ready to crush every thing in way of its intrest of oil resources in central asia and safe trade routes located in muslim countries.””
The fact is that the “mad Super Power” is not really so mad after all. Since 2004 it has been a gradual downslide in its ability to rule the world at will. After having made humiliating compromises with Iran for an exit from Iraq, the final body blow was Georgia 2008. The greatest setback however is the virtual meltdown of the US financial system.

 

[waraich66]

Dear asaad-ul-islam:
Following a Sunnah of not bowing head to tyranny does not mean that Baitullah Mehsud or any other Taliban leader is being COMPARED to Hazrat Imam Hussein. This is what I wrote:
“”My dear there is No Comparison as such. Betullah Mahsud is not equal even to dust on the shoes of Hazrat Imam Hussein.
When you go to mosque and say your Sunnah, you are following the practice of the Holy Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Does this mean that you are “Comparing” yourself to the Holy Prophet?
So, if these “bad guys” have adopted the Sunnah of Imam Hussein never to bow head to Tyranny, what’s wrong with that?””

Anwar,

Right ,but is not adviseable by knowing that enemy will kill you ,go infront of him and ask him shot me .Our Phrophet PBUH always adopted excellent strategy to defeat enemies of islam .

May be these young fighters like masud or pushtoon tribe men are good muslim but what strategy they have adopted to fight with pak army is wrong which will weaken our strength against our common enemy ,they want to softern the target ,creat disturbance in pakistan creat different waring factions as they did in Afghanistan then they will capture whole country.

 

[waraich66]

Dear waraich66
“”but here problem is how to tackle mad super power ready to crush every thing in way of its intrest of oil resources in central asia and safe trade routes located in muslim countries.””
The fact is that the “mad Super Power” is not really so mad after all. Since 2004 it has been a gradual downslide in its ability to rule the world at will. After having made humiliating compromises with Iran for an exit from Iraq, the final body blow was Georgia 2008. The greatest setback however is the virtual meltdown of the US financial system.

Agreed, Remember Allah alway distroy mad super power with very small thing.

We have example of nations likes aad,smud considered super power of that time but Allah made their strength their weakness .

 

[fatman17]

I doubt, he is less experienced guy and possibily could easily be trapped by jew strong US lobby.

Please gone through his speaches before election and during election ,he will further escalate war in Afghanistan even in case NATO backout.

He will show some thing else to American general public do something else always there is hidden agenda (secure oil resourses middle east and central asia) until he made major changes in CIA and Pantagon .Even then mojority of US senators are not jews but jew supported.

first of all, i try my best not to get involved in the debate of religion and politics which was going on above. just MHO.

coming back to Obama.

well we will just have to see won't we. if he carries on with the Bush doctrine, the liberals who supported and put him into power will be quick to pull the rug from under him.

1. 16 month withdrawl from iraq (pentagon plan is under approval)
2. the "surge" for afghanistan is being given a second look as there are questions being raised about the "differences" between iraq and afghanistan.
3. for the 1st time in the history of US-pak relations, a democratic govt. coming into power will not show the traditional "tilt" in favour of india. the new US admn understands it has to deal with india and pakistan independently.
4. there is very strong favour in the congress led by biden, kerry and luger to push the 1.5 bill economic package along with ensuring that pakistan's legitimate security concerns are being met. the pentagon top brass has already made a very strong presentation to
the new US president on this subject. denying military FMS sales and access to EDA stocks will not be in US interests according to the US military.

it is now left up to us pakistanis how we approach the new "gameplan". we can show "subserviance" or we can get a "fair deal" which is in the interest of pakistan and its people.

 

[waraich66]

Mullen Agrees with Obama on Iraq, Afghanistan?
By Noah Shachtman July 03, 2008 | 11:02:00 AMCategories: Iraq's Insanity, Politricks, War Update
Did the country's top uniformed military leader endorse the Obama plan for Iraq and Afghanistan yesterday? In a briefing at the Pentagon, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen said he wants more troops in Afghanistan -- but can't get 'em until forces are taken out of Iraq:

Let me also say just a word about Afghanistan. I am and have been for some time now deeply troubled by the increasing violence there. The Taliban and their supporters have, without question, grown more effective and more aggressive in recent weeks and as the casualty figures clearly demonstrate...

I've made no secret of my desire to flow more forces, U.S. forces, to Afghanistan just as soon as I can, nor have I been shy about saying that those forces will not be available unless or until the situation in Iraq permits us to do so.

There's no easy solution, and there will be no quick fix. More troops are necessary, and some of our NATO allies have recently committed to sending more of their own, but they won't fully ever be sufficient. We need and are pursuing a broader interagency international approach, one that includes infrastructure improvement, foreign investment and economic incentives, and I'm hopeful these efforts will begin to pay off in the near future. But we all need to be patient. As we have seen in Iraq, counterinsurgency warfare takes time, and it takes a certain level of commitment. It takes flexibility.

Obviously, Mullen hasn't openly embraced Obama's call for a large-scale troops withdrawal. But, even so, the Chairman's remarks sound an awful lot like Barack Obama has been saying for a while, to my ears. Here's an example:

It is not too late to prevail in Afghanistan. But we cannot prevail until we reduce our commitment in Iraq... providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our efforts in Afghanistan. This increased commitment in turn can be used to leverage greater assistance - with fewer restrictions - from our NATO allies. It will also allow us to invest more in training Afghan security forces, including more joint NATO operations with the Afghan Army, and a national police training plan that is effectively coordinated and resourced.

A stepped up military commitment must be backed by a long-term investment in the Afghan people. We will start with an additional $1 billion in non military assistance each year - aid that is focused on reaching ordinary Afghans. We need to improve daily life by supporting education, basic infrastructure and human services. We have to counter the opium trade by supporting alternative livelihoods for Afghan farmers. And we must call on more support from friends and allies, and better coordination under a strong international coordinator.

Funny, the other day you had team Obama endorsing a second term for Defense Secretary Robert Gates. Now you've got Mullen giving Obama cover for his positions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hmmmmm...

Anyway, over at Abu Muquwama, "Dr. iRack" notes that Mullen has been making similar warnings about Afghanistan for months.

Talking heads like Michael O'Hanlon worry that that moving troops from Iraq to Afghanistan might "throw away what you've been able to succeed in doing in one place in the hope that you might help a mission where you're having relative failure elsewhere." And, frankly, a drawdown makes me nervous, too. (Although, a little less so lately, since Iraqi forces have been stepping up.)


To Dr. iRack, "thinks this represents a false, zero-sum way of thinking.

Indeed, this is the danger of assuming that we need to max-out our presence in Iraq to "win" there (whatever that means), and not thinking about how a gradual, conditional redeployment from Iraq might be leveraged to generate success in Iraq and free up resources for Afghanistan. O'Hanlon and others who appear to share this view (including McCain) are stuck in the "all in" in Iraq until "victory" mode without a way to actually get there... or avoid defeat in Afghanistan.

Present satuation depicts that US did same mistake as Hitler did to open another front in Russia .US miltery and political leadership looking very much confused between two wars???

 

[waraich66]

1.5 B US economic package is not enough to restore peace in NWFP ,now anti US -NATO forces are very much stronger and well organised and threatening to NATO supply line?

Solution:

1. Peace agreement with all local tribes and waring factions except Al Qaida.
2. 5 Billion USD development aid per annum for infrastructure development for five years.
3.Compensation or blood money for innocient killing.
4.Withdrawal of PA from FATA,BAJOUR.
5.Development of strong local security forces .

 

[fatman17]

1.5 B US economic package is not enough to restore peace in NWFP ,now anti US -NATO forces are very much stronger and well organised and threatening to NATO supply line?

Solution:

1. Peace agreement with all local tribes and waring factions except Al Qaida.
2. 5 Billion USD development aid per annum for infrastructure development for five years.
3.Compensation or blood money for innocient killing.
4.Withdrawal of PA from FATA,BAJOUR.
5.Development of strong local security forces .

1.5 Bill / year for 15 years !!!. thats nearly 25 bill USD. !!! for development of not only FATA but the whole of pakistan including education. even good old ronald reagan could not come up with this type of aid package.

why the withdrawl of PA from FATA/Bajaur. these areas are part and parcel of pakistan. i will support the buiding of cantonments in all the districts of FATA - swat, bajaur, mohmand. N/Waziristan, S/Waziristan so that if ever there is militant trouble the PA can react quickly.

 

[waraich66]

1.5 Bill / year for 15 years !!!. thats nearly 25 bill USD. !!! for development of not only FATA but the whole of pakistan including education. even good old ronald reagan could not come up with this type of aid package.

why the withdrawl of PA from FATA/Bajaur. these areas are part and parcel of pakistan. i will support the buiding of cantonments in all the districts of FATA - swat, bajaur, mohmand. N/Waziristan, S/Waziristan so that if ever there is militant trouble the PA can react quickly.

Dr Mahbub Haq estimated when he was finance minister during Gen Zia era that Pakistan is losing 200 Bill Rs annually due to bartar trade and smuggling in FATA ,which is now much more then 3 Bill USD ,these tribes men are not fool to allow Pakistan to stop this buisness by establishing permanent army basis.

Only acceptable solution to them will be if you give them better alternative with better buisness prospects

Second point is when there is WAR Norcotice buisness further increases .

So they need a comprehensive compensation plan for long term basis.

 

[fatman17]

Dr Mahbub Haq estimated when he was finance minister during Gen Zia era that Pakistan is losing 200 Bill Rs annually due to bartar trade and smuggling in FATA

who's to blame for this?

 

[waraich66]

Dr Mahbub Haq estimated when he was finance minister during Gen Zia era that Pakistan is losing 200 Bill Rs annually due to bartar trade and smuggling in FATA

who's to blame for this?

Fatman,

I agree with you that these tribes are responsible for these losses ,which Pakistan is bearing from independence and US should also understand and try to help us seriously not in faShion as they did after afghan russia war.It need long term solution


When you do analyse in detail you will come to conclusion that deployment of army and surgical strikes will not solve the problem in these areas but further detoriate security conditions.

 

[fatman17]

Fatman,

I agree with you that these tribes are responsible for these losses ,which Pakistan is bearing from independence and US should also understand and try to help us seriously not in faShion as they did after afghan russia war.It need long term solution


When you do analyse in detail you will come to conclusion that deployment of army and surgical strikes will not solve the problem in these areas but further detoriate security conditions.

my dear friend,

i dont like whats happening in fata. i am a pakistani and frankly this is not a good situation for us. when the govt has lost control in the area (for that matter any area) for any reason at all, the security forces have to be called-in. unfortunately in our case the only force which can re-instate the writ of the state is the PA. the FC and the Levies are a courageous lot but their training is not suited for CI. even PA units are not trained in CI but they are slowly getting there. the PA is better equipped. God knows they need more!

now if the govt. withdraws its security apparatus from FATA without establishing law and order, i am afraid all hell is going to break lose (drugs, gun running, smuggling and militancy). how can we make peace deals with these people who are nothing short of "barbaric" in their behaviour.

its good to be emotional but we also must face the ground realities. its mostly of our own making and only we can get out of this quagmire and it wont happen overnight!

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan kills 22 militants near Afghan border: officials

8 hours ago

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) — Pakistani troops backed by war planes and helicopter gunships on Tuesday killed 22 militants in a major offensive against insurgents near the Afghan border, security officials said.

"We have launched a major operation in Mohmand district early this morning," a paramilitary force official told AFP.

"At least 22 insurgents have died so far. Aircraft participated in the operation in Mohmand for the first time," he said.

Troops pounded suspected militant locations in the northwestern tribal region and destroyed several bases, said the official requesting anonymity.

Mohmand is a known Taliban and Al-Qaeda stronghold.

Residents who confirmed the military offensive said helicopters also targeted insurgent camps and predicted that "casualties may go up."

Pakistan's lawless tribal areas have been wracked by violence since hundreds of Taliban and Al-Qaeda rebels sought refuge in the region after the US-led invasion of Afghanistan toppled the hardline Taliban regime in late 2001.

Nationwide, a wave of attacks carried out by Islamist extremists across Pakistan have killed more than 1,500 people in the past 17 months.

Tuesday's military operation comes 10 days after a major gunbattle in the same region where hundreds of foreign militants attacked Pakistani forces, sparking clashes that left six soldiers and 40 militants dead, officials said.

That was the biggest recent assault against Pakistani security forces, who are battling to flush out militants in parts of the restive northwest.

Officials charged that most of the insurgents infiltrated the border from Afghanistan and were backed up by local Taliban fighters.

In Tuesday's operation, security officials said ground forces had cleared about 60 kilometres (40 miles) of road from Mohmand's main town of Ghalalai to the neighbouring Bajaur district, where forces are also battling militants.

Of the 22 militants killed, officials said 10 died when troops destroyed their base in Tiwazai town, seven in Karir Kanudu, three in Mullah Khel and two in another suspected Taliban compound in Pandialy town.

Militants put up resistance when ground forces moved into the area of Saidukhel on Tuesday but fled after about half an hour of clashes, another security official said. There were no immediate reports of military casualties.

Pakistan's rugged tribal belt is a key battleground in the US-led "war on terror" and home to hundreds if not thousands of Taliban and Al-Qaeda linked militants, who fled Afghanistan after the US-led invasion in late 2001.

The militants have killed dozens of local tribesmen, government officials and Afghan refugees -- beheading some of them -- on allegations of spying for Pakistani troops or foreign forces operating across the border in Afghanistan.

On Tuesday, Taliban militants shot dead five men they accused of spying for US forces in Afghanistan and hanged another, an official said.

Bodies of two men were found dumped on a roadside in Miranshah, the main town of North Waziristan, and four others were spotted by residents in the town of Mir Ali, some 25 kilometres (15 miles) east.

Notes found next to the bodies said they were killed because they were "American spies," local administration official Qasim Jan told AFP.

In the northwestern city of Peshawar, which is close to the semi-autonomous tribal zones, two civilians and two policemen were wounded when a roadside bomb ripped through a police van, police official Khan Abbas told AFP.

 

[fatman17]

US 'agrees Afghan supply route'

Gen Petraeus also met Pakistan army chief Gen Ashfaq Kayani
The US says a new supply path to Afghanistan has been agreed with Central Asian states and Russia as an option to the troubled Pakistan route.

US Central Command chief Gen David Petraeus made the announcement on a visit to Islamabad.

The route through the Khyber Pass has been closed several times in recent months after militants attacks.

Gen David Petraeus has met President Asif Ali Zardari and other leading figures on his one-day trip.

The visit comes after a week-long tour of Central Asian states.

Public anger

Gen Petraeus said the Pakistan route had been flowing "generally freely" in recent weeks but that the US and Nato had sought "additional logistical routes from the north".

He added: "There have been agreements reached and there are transit lines now and transit agreements for commercial goods and services in particular that include several countries in the Central Asian states and also Russia."

The BBC's Barbara Plett in Islamabad says the announcement will be a concern for Islamabad.


Raids on trucks supplying Afghanistan have been a major concern

Our correspondent says reports from the meetings also suggest that Pakistan expressed concern about US missile strikes against suspected Taleban and al-Qaeda militants in its border region.

Islamabad says this triggers public anger, which undermines its own counter-terrorism efforts.

Our correspondent says there has been no formal indication that this policy might change under the new US administration, although a senior official of Barack Obama's Democratic party has questioned whether the missile strikes are counterproductive.

At his press conference, Gen Petraeus said the US would continue to help Pakistan tackle terrorism and militancy in the tribal areas.

"It is clearly in the interest of all countries involved that Pakistan succeed in dealing with its internal problems," he said.

Pakistan's actions and arrests following the Mumbai (Bombay) attacks were also discussed.

The general said the US and the international community would continue to support Pakistan, but Pakistan must also put its house in order on the issue of militants.

'Risky'

Gen Petraeus is a key advocate of a major US troop surge in Afghanistan.

The US has said it is sending up to 30,000 new troops to Afghanistan this year to take on a resurgent Taleban. They will join 33,000 US and 32,000 other Nato troops already in the country.

This is Gen Petraeus's second visit to Pakistan since taking up his new position.

He was until recently commander of the US military in Iraq.

He was widely credited with improving security there through the "surge" plan, which saw nearly 30,000 US troops deployed to trouble spots.

However, Afghanistan's ambassador to the US, Said Jawad, recently said that a plan similar to the one in Iraq that formed local tribal groups to help combat the insurgency was "very risky".

 

[fatman17]

CJCSC for comprehensive anti-terror plan

Polish, Lankan defence officials call on Gen Majid

Tuesday, January 20, 2009

RAWALPINDI: Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Tariq Majid on Monday said the counter-terrorism strategy needed to be comprehensive, all-encompassing and collaborative with a regional outlook.

ìThere has to be minimum reliance on the kinetic element and non-military prong should be in the lead role,î he said. The CJCSC was talking to Poland Chief of General Staff General Franciszek Gagor, who, accompanied by a Polish armed forces’ delegation, called on him at the Joint Staff Headquarters. On his arrival, a smartly turned-out tri-services contingent presented guard of honour, said an ISPR press release.

Briefing the delegation, the CJCSC said sharing of intelligence and synchronisation of effort on both sides was the key to success in operations against militants. In order to effectively address the cross-border movement, there is a need to improve the mechanism of border control on both sides, he said, adding there was also a need to break the nexus between the drug barons and militants in Afghanistan and also control the poppy cultivation there.

The delegation was also briefed on the regional security situation with particular focus on progress of operations against terrorism in the tribal areas. The CJCSC gave his assessment of the security situation, dilating upon the positive developments, negative developments and a possible way forward.

Highlighting the positive developments in the recent months, General Majid talked of success in Bajaur where huge losses had been inflicted on the miscreants; formation of Lashkars by the local tribesmen; development of broad-based political consensus against terrorism through the joint session of parliament; and improved relations with Afghanistan.

He also spoke on issues which continue to impact negatively on the situation, including stand-off strikes resulting in collateral damage. He also expressed his views on a possible way forward by emphasising exercise of strategic patience.

General Franciszek Gagor lauded Pakistan’s efforts in the war on terror. He also thanked Pakistan for its role towards improving the security situation and bringing stability in the region and for providing logistic support to the ISAF.

Both sides also discussed the steps needed to be taken to enhance defence cooperation between both the armed forces. Sri Lankan Secretary Defence Gotabaya Rajapakse also called on CJCSC General Tariq Majid at the Joint Staff Headquarters. He exchanged views with the CJCSC, focusing on the evolving security situation in the region, defence cooperation between the two countries and other subjects of mutual interest.