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“ The Bared sword upon the neck of the Blasphemer of Rasool Allah”: Defending Article 295-C

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"It's not the job of Mirza Qadiani or his followers to establish what is related or not related in verses of Quran. Rasool Allah, Sahaba and Aima have already established it."
You disagree?
"I think we should discuss the legitimacy of punishment which should be inflicted on you. You are not legitimate to discuss anything related to Islam."

298-C. Person of Quadiani group, etc., calling himself a Muslim or preaching or propagating his faith:
Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name), who directly or indirectly, poses himself as a Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.
Do my words contradicts article 298-C? I don't know a better way to state law of my land.
this law does not forbid anyone from discussing Islam or putting questions to followers of this religion, in order to understand Islam. Did the person in question put any comments which is an insult to holy prophet? Then from where question of punishment comes in? I would be very interested in knowing about other beliefs and of course when a discussion is taking place on the subject I may be putting up questions which are considered a taboo in that society (may not be a taboo in their belief). Should people like me be ready to get insulted? or are we above law?
 
1) The verse you quoted is for the likes of ISIS and TTP who are spreading Fasad on Allah's land in the name of Islam (the religion of peace)

So you are saying that this verse:

And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only. (11) Are not they indeed the mischief-makers ? But they perceive not. (12)

This is for the Taliban and ISIS? :) I thought when someone comes saying I am a peacemaker, he doesn't come with guns.. :)

and spread Fasad on Allah's land should be killed regardless of what religion they are ... Kaab was killed for Fasad, not blasphemy

So you are saying that when blasphemers and liberals spread blasphemous material on the internet, and then say they come in peace so deal with them peacefully, but their material spreads fitnah in the society do not come under the above ayah? :)

Theek hogaya :)

1) The verse you quoted is for the likes of ISIS and TTP who are spreading Fasad on Allah's land in the name of Islam (the religion of peace)

By the way, our salafs didn't know what you know....

In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented, (And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for, ("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement, (And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.
 
So you are saying that this verse:

And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only. (11) Are not they indeed the mischief-makers ? But they perceive not. (12)

This is for the Taliban and ISIS? :) I thought when someone comes saying I am a peacemaker, he doesn't come with guns.. :)



So you are saying that when blasphemers and liberals spread blasphemous material on the internet, and then say they come in peace so deal with them peacefully, but their material spreads fitnah in the society do not come under the above ayah? :)

Theek hogaya :)

No, I'm not saying that ..... Anyway we can discuss that in detail in some other thread ....

Please read the Holy Qur'an yourself and you will easily understand what "Fasad fil Arz" is ... Allah says in the Holy Quran that he has made Quran easy to understand and remember .....

Quoting quranic verses is not allowed here and I have been banned on a number of threads just for quoting quranic verses .... Otherwise I would have posted the relevant verses here ... I believe such topics should be discussed openly in our society
 
Please read the Holy Qur'an yourself and you will easily understand what "Fasad fil Arz" is ... Allah says in the Holy Quran that he has made Quran easy to understand and remember .....

By the way, our salafs didn't know what you know....

In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented, (And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for, ("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement, (And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.
 
By the way, our salafs didn't know what you know....

In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented, (And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for, ("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement, (And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.

Bro, we don't even know wether or not the salaf actually said that (or was it falsely attributed to them later on) ... That's the problem in following any book other than Qur'an ... Man written books are not error free ..... But even as per this exegesis, no one from islaaf said that blasphemy is "fasad fil arz" ... Right ?
 
Bro, we don't even know wether or not the salaf actually said that (or was it falsely attributed to them later on) ... That's the problem in following any book other than Qur'an ... Man written books are not error free ..... But even as per this exegesis, no one from islaaf said that blasphemy is "fasad fil arz" ... Right ?

My God!

I thought you referred to Salafs when you pointed towards Imam Abu Hanifa??? :)

By the way, I quoted the above commentary from Tafseer Ibn e Katheer.

As for your saying that salafs didn't say that blasphemy is fasad fil ardh, my point was different.

I said since prophet PBUH killed the blasphemers, our state should also kill the blasphemers. You brought Fasad fil Ardh in this whole debate.. Now you are challenging Tafseer Ibn e Kathir..

One last thing, since you have started challenging the authenticity of statements of salafs in the most read Tafseer around the world and think your opinion should be considered reliable, please excuse me, I can't debate further.. This is my last message.. :)
 
These Bhensa people are doing Fasad Fil Arz by inciting our feeling may lead to mass protest and killing.

The Bhensa admins are hypocrites as they are not in an open rebellion against the state (or waging war against Muslims)... They don't even use their real id's to mock Islam.. I believe that posting blasphemous stuff on the internet anonymously when no one is forced to read that stuff can NOT be declared Fasad fil Arz ..... therefore no capital punishment for them .....

They should be arrested and tried (under Cyber Crime Bill) ..... And if the courts decide that they should be hanged in accordance with the prevalent blasphemy laws, let it be .... We will keep criticizing Pakistan's unislamic Blasphemy Laws, but the law of the land has to be followed under all circumstances ....

My God!

I thought you referred to Salafs when you pointed towards Imam Abu Hanifa??? :)

By the way, I quoted the above commentary from Tafseer Ibn e Katheer.

As for your saying that salafs didn't say that blasphemy is fasad fil ardh, my point was different.

I said since prophet PBUH killed the blasphemers, our state should also kill the blasphemers. You brought Fasad fil Ardh in this whole debate.. Now you are challenging Tafseer Ibn e Kathir..

One last thing, since you have started challenging the authenticity of statements of salafs in the most read Tafseer around the world and think your opinion should be considered reliable, please excuse me, I can't debate further.. This is my last message.. :)

Bro why can't I (or anyone else) challenge Ibn e Kathir's interpretation ??? The only unchallengeable book is The Holy Qur'an ..... And I hadn't challenged his interpretations (yet) ... But it's okay if you don't want to discuss it further ... in the end ..... We are Muslims and I believe we all want good for Pakistan, Islam, Muslims and the humanity at large...

Have a nice day
 
There is absolutely nothing in the Quran or the Sunnah which prescribes a penalty or punishment in the life of this world for a disbeliever who abuses or reviles the Noble Prophet (saws). In the lifetime of the Noble Prophet (saws) itself many amongst the evil disbelievers would regularly abuse and revile the Noble Prophet of Allah (saws), and the Quran itself confirms that these treacherous disbelievers would call him (and I seek refuge in the Lord from even saying this!) a madman, a liar, a sooth-sayer, a man possessed, etc.; but never ever did the Messenger of Allah (saws) extract a punishment from them in the life of this world.


Just as in Japan there is a law which prescribes punishment for one who reviles or abuses their Emperor, or in Thailand the law of the land prescribes severe punishment for one who reviles or abuses their King, or even in England it is against the law of the land to publicly abuse or curse the Queen..the muslim rulers in an Islamic State or Nation are well within their rights as a sovereign nation to make it illegal in the lands under their jurisdiction for anyone to revile or abuse their Prophet (saws) and prescribe a punishment they see appropriate for this ghastly blasphemy committed in their nations.


But if one who is a disbeliever in Allah and His Messenger (saws) and lives in a non-Islamic State chooses to exercise his (so-called) freedom of expression and reviles or abuses the Noble Prophet of Allah (saws) from a nation where the Muslim State has no jurisdiction; he obviously cannot be prosecuted or punished according to Islamic Law in a foreign land! The Muslim States can obviously ban him from ever entering their lands, or can ban his views being aired in their landsbut they cannot prescribe a punishment for that person in a foreign sovereign land.


And without an iota of a doubt, even in an Islamic State under no circumstances can a muslim vigilante take matters in his own hands and go about executing anyone he thinks has reviled or abused the Prophet (saws)! Even in a muslim nation where a law is in place to punish the perpetrators who dare to revile or abuse the Prophet (saws), an individual muslim cannot take matters in his own hands and punish whom he thinks to be a blasphemer, but he must take the case to the Court, where the Judge alone has the right to enforce the prescribed punishments on the convict if he is convicted for his crime of blasphemy.


Statement: This means it is halaal to kill someone who insults the prophet,

It is not lawful for an individual muslim to kill someone who insults the Prophet (saws), regardless of whether that individual reviled the Noble Prophet (saws) from a non-muslim or muslim nation.


If the person who reviled the Prophet (saws) lives or committed his crime of blasphemy in a muslim nation, he must be taken to court and the Judge will enforce the punishment on the convict if convicted of his crime.


Just imagine the chaos and fitnah it would create if every individual muslim had a right to kill one who insults their beloved Prophet (saws); anyone could kill anybody at random and when asked why he did so, all he has to do is claim that the person reviled the Prophet (saws) and thus he killed him! No persons honor, life, and property would be safe in such an environment!



Islamhelpline. ... @Gillani88

Sunan of Abu-Dawood Hadith 4348 Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Abbas

A blind man had a slave-girl who used to abuse the Prophet (saws) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (saws) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (saws) was informed about it. He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the blind man stood up. He sat before the Prophet (saws) and said: O Messenger of Allah (saws)! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her. Thereupon the Prophet (saws) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.


Regarding the above narration which is indeed considered authentic, one must realize that the incident that is related above occurred in the believing nation of Madinah where a sovereign Islamic State was established with the Noble Prophet (saws) as its sole leader and judge, and under the guidance of Allah Subhanah, the Prophet (saws) as the sole leader and judge of a sovereign muslim nation accepted the witness of the person and forgave him.


Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 53 Surah Najm verses 3-4:

3 Nor does he (Prophet Mohamed (saws)) say (aught) of (his own) desire.

4 It is no less than inspiration sent down to him.


Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allahs Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me alone. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.
 

I did not want to put any further comments on this thread, but as you have specifically mentioned me this is my last comment.

Frankly speaking with these videos subject has become very sensitive. Foundation of Islam is blind faith on Allah, thus Kalima. Anyone who deny Kalma is not muslim, With status of Non-Muslim if someone performs an act which has been proscribed in law of land, prosecution as per law can be initiated.

The second video of bathing.......... Is he saying something which is not there in books of hadith? If it is there then how it comes in blasphemy? Having said that I will refer to an earlier post

https://defence.pk/threads/“-the-ba...ding-article-295-c.475392/page-6#post-9160383https://defence.pk/threads/“-the-ba...ding-article-295-c.475392/page-6#post-9160383

I feel that this topic is reaching a level where administrative intervention seems inevitable. @Horus I would recommend admin to kindly close this tread before decorum is destroyed.
 
Maybe they like/want to get offended and angered ?

No, I think the motivation is to demand respect for their own sets of beliefs, which is natural for them, but forgets that a diversity of views must be allowed and tolerated, despite differences. After all, all the world could have been created by Him as Muslim, but He did not do so in His Infinite Wisdom.
 
I did not want to put any further comments on this thread, but as you have specifically mentioned me this is my last comment.

Frankly speaking with these videos subject has become very sensitive. Foundation of Islam is blind faith on Allah, thus Kalima. Anyone who deny Kalma is not muslim, With status of Non-Muslim if someone performs an act which has been proscribed in law of land, prosecution as per law can be initiated.

The second video of bathing.......... Is he saying something which is not there in books of hadith? If it is there then how it comes in blasphemy? Having said that I will refer to an earlier post

https://defence.pk/threads/“-the-bared-sword-upon-the-neck-of-the-blasphemer-of-rasool-allah”-defending-article-295-c.475392/page-6#post-9160383https://defence.pk/threads/“-the-bared-sword-upon-the-neck-of-the-blasphemer-of-rasool-allah”-defending-article-295-c.475392/page-6#post-9160383

I feel that this topic is reaching a level where administrative intervention seems inevitable. @Horus I would recommend admin to kindly close this tread before decorum is destroyed.


Most of the people here have no idea what is written about our beloved prophet in the Books of Hadith which they highly rever (of course without ever having read them ) ... If anyone quotes those so called Ahadith without mentioning that he is Quoting from Hadith books, I am sure he will be declared/labelled "blasphemer" immediately ....
 
Did you just try and do a half hearted copy and paste job of the verse from the Holy Qur'an
I can only try to copy and paste from original sources. I can't add or subtract anything from shariah, unlike those people who created a whole Nabi sitting in India.
 
I can only try to copy and paste from original sources. .

And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (17:36)
 
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