The Americans wonder: Why Did India Put Aging MiG-21 Jets on the Front Lines With Pakistan?

[Basel]

Let's filter through the usual American BS and focus on the more relevant points. The American source is renowned for being in bed with Hindustan. Although it has gone pretty far by giving shoddy Indian claims some credibility.

This is a gem LOL: These jets are old, but can still kill. Perhaps India was saving its best fighters for another day?

Ludicrous Americans sucking Indian boots dry.

Indians here on PDF had claimed that their upgraded Mig-21s are better then PAF F-16 due to advance systems installed in them now they say reverse.

 

[jaibi]

I know, brother, I'm just telling you that that very statement though is correct.

That is not what the OP suggests. He is claiming that India didn't use its best fighters. Even though he contradicts his own argument by quoting a third person who claims that Su-30 and Mirage 2000 fighters were used.

 

[bhola record]

I think the indians were caught off guard that is why they sent in whatever they have.I think MIGS were sent due to their less distance from rajauri where strikes took place other formations followed the mig that was shot down was based in srinagar.

 

[jaibi]

I read his arguments; I'm just adding to tangents and not commenting on the OP as that's been done already.

That is not what the OP suggests. He is claiming that India didn't use its best fighters. Even though he contradicts his own argument by quoting a third person who claims that Su-30 and Mirage 2000 fighters were used.

 

[jaibi]

It's what their media and AF claimed. So even we were training for a much stronger AF so it just goes to say, be who you say you are.

Indians have here on PDF had claimed that their upgraded Mig-21s are better then PAF F-16 due to advance systems installed in them now they say reverse.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Abhinandon plane was hit early but his wingman turned towards India and tried to run away. At least two missiles were fired towards his wingman.his fate is unknown. I don't think mig-21 can Dodge two missiles. I have seen videos again and again. The plane which broke in two pieces in mid air,basically three pieces(parachute) was abhinandan plane.india is calling same footage as f-16 plane. In the background,one can easily identify another jet turning away.it was probably abhinandan wingman. They have made lots of videos,calling abhinandan plane as pakistani f-16.
Mig-21 in close combat can be very dangerous. Abhinandan used mountains as cover. What happened next is known to all but what happened to his wingman is unknown. Su-30 was targeted much earlier than migs.

 

[peagle]

package of 24 [Pakistani air force] jets that included eight F-16s, four Mirage III aircraft, four JF-17 Thunders,"

Doesn't 8+4+4= 16

Unless David Axe studied in a special school,
School for the mentally challenged perhaps?

 

[CrazyZ]

Author should what this USAF col says about the Mig-21 Bison (at about 4:45). He says Mig-21 bison is a great AC, with an Isreali radar and jammer that make it practically invisible to the F-16.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

When I play Age of Empires, I also send my soldiers and equipment with low level and low HP to fight in useless fronts while keeping the best for the stronger front.

That is also what I thought as well , it was a test to see preparedness for PAF and re-equip their air-force, the hoopla generated was used to incite voters to re-elect BJP India

The political gain for internal Indian politics were greater gain

In most circles it is referred as "The Pakistan Card was played" to win votes for local election

As expected Pakistani Airforce smashed the ball out of park vs Mig-21s, this fueled a sentiment to vote for BJP locally even with pathetic performance in economic terms , people voted for BJP

Yet It is seen in India BJP has failed to contain Covid-19, and Kashmir Issue has backfired 100% with a 2 front escalation with Pakistan-China on the cards

 

[litman]

the author came out of coma just now. so he doesnt know what he is talking about.

 

[waz]

The recent clash raised eyebrows since the MiG-21 is generally seen as outdated.

by David Axe

Key Point: These jets are old, but can still kill. Perhaps India was saving its best fighters or another day?

The Indian air force defended its decision to send old MiG-21 fighters up against much more modern Pakistani F-16s during recent aerial skirmishes.

On Feb. 26, 2019 Indian planes crossed the line of control at India's border with Pakistan and bombed what New Dehli described as a terrorist training camp near Balakot.

Several days of aerial fighting followed the bombing raid. On Feb. 27, 2019, Pakistani F-16s and other planes crossed the line of control to attack Indian forces, New Delhi claimed.

Indian MiG-21s and other fighters intercepted the Pakistanis and shot down one F-16, killing its pilot, according to the Indian government. Islamabad claimed its forces shot down two MiG-21s, but New Delhi copped to losing just one jet.

Pakistani forces captured the MiG-21 pilot, Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, and held him for two days before handing him over to Indian officials.

India's MiG-21s, while featuring some key upgrades, still are more than 30 years old. The Pakistani F-16 that the Indians shot down reportedly was a Block 52D model that Islamabad in 2005 ordered from the United States.

"The MiG-21 is in our inventory, why will we not use it?" Indian Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa rhetorically asked reporters when questioned about the aerial disparity.

To be fair, India in the 1990s upgraded its MiG-21s to the "Bison" standard with Western-style avionics, a new radar and radar warning receiver and compatibility with modern weapons. "[It] has got better weapons system, better air-to-air missiles," Dhanoa pointed out.

But the main reason India sent the MiG-21 into battle is that the type is still one of the most numerous in Indian air force service. "We fight with all the aircraft in our inventory," Dhanoa said.

Indeed, the aerial battle in which the MiG-21 and F-16 were shot down involved, on both sides, mixed formations of old and new fighters.

"The MiG-21 that was shot down on Feb. 27, 2019, was part of a formation of eight Indian fighters which included four Sukhoi 30s, two upgraded Mirage 2000s and two MiG-21 Bisons that were dispatched to engage a package of 24 [Pakistani air force] jets that included eight F-16s, four Mirage III aircraft, four JF-17 Thunders," David Cenciotti reported at The Aviationist.

India for years has been struggling to replace a large fleet of old, Russian-made warplanes. In 2018 the Indian air force operated 244 1960s-vintage MiG-21s and 84 MiG-27s that are only slightly younger.

The MiG-21s, in particular, are accident-prone. Since the first of 874 MiG-21s entered Indian service in 1963, around 490 have crashed, killing around 200 pilots.

New Delhi wants to spend around $18 billion building 115 new fighters to replace the old MiGs. The new planes would fly alongside European-designed Jaguars, French Mirage 2000s and Rafales, Russian MiG-29s and Su-30s, and India's own indigenous Tejas fighter in what Lockheed described as "the world’s largest fighter aircraft ecosystem."

Competitors for the 115-plane purchase include an upgraded F-16 that Lockheed Martin calls the "F-21," Boeing's F/A-18E/F, the Rafale, the European Typhoon, the Swedish Gripen E and the Russian MiG-35 and Su-35. Indian companies would assemble the new jets on license.

At the same time, Russia wants to sell to the Indians an upgrade package for New Delhi's Su-30s. The Su-30SM would benefit from many of the systems that manufacturer Sukhoi developed for the newer Su-35.

The complexity of acquisitions processes in New Delhi could force the Indian air force to operate for years or even decades longer a diverse mix of old and new fighters.

There's no reason this mixed force can't be effective in aerial combat, Cenciotti explained. An old fighter such as the MiG-21 can be deadly under the right circumstances.

Not always does the more modern and capable weapon system (in this case the PAF F-16) win. Several factors must be taken into consideration: pilot skills, support from other assets (including fighters and [airborne early warning] aircraft), ground radars, etc.

Above all, [rules of engagement] play an essential role: if the rules of engagement require a positive [visual identification] of the opponent, a fighter might be forced to come [within visual range] where a MiG-21 can be particularly threatening.

David Axe served as Defense Editor of the National Interest. He is the author of the graphic novels War Fix, War Is Boring and Machete Squad.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/r...aging-mig-21-jets-front-lines-pakistan-166940

This guy is a moron, I've concluded.

Look at this;

The Flanker wasn’t the only aircraft that the Eagle’s drivers faced in mock air-to-air combat: “The two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MiG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MiG-21, and the Su-30MK Flanker, also made in Russia,” Snodgrass explained to AW&ST.

Low radar visibility, instantaneous turn rate, acceleration and the helmet mounted sight combined with high-off-boresight R-73 air-to-air missiles were among the factors that made the upgraded MiG-21 a deadly adversary for the U.S. F-15s.

https://theaviationist.com/2014/05/02/cope-india-2004-results/

So is Colonel Mike Snodgrass of the USAF telling fibs, along with all the other USAF pilots?
The man is an idiot. The Mig-21 was and still is capable.
Hilariously many Indians were screaming that the jet was old i.e. hence the loss, when the same cry babies were hailing it as a success against the US jets back in Cope 2014 hahaha.

Old, vintage, no BVR yada, yada that's why we/they lost. Ok....

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Indian MiG-21s and other fighters intercepted the Pakistanis and shot down one F-16, killing its pilot, according to the Indian government.

The Pakistani F-16 that the Indians shot down reportedly was a Block 52D model that Islamabad in 2005 ordered from the United States.

Indeed, the aerial battle in which the MiG-21 and F-16 were shot down involved, on both sides, mixed formations of old and new fighters.

Dear pdf Pakistanis, please focus on the objective of this article. It has nothing whatsoever to do with whether mig21 is dated or useful or anything else.

This filthy article is simple subterfuge. Initially, the claim of f16 shoot down was "according to the Indian government".

The next two and only other statements regarding this baloney have dropped any context of the shoot down being a mere unsubstantiated claim.

This is how chanakiya works. These articles will be found at the top of Google as Indian operators filter out articles that insist it was an unsubstantiated claim at best or simply ignore the claim altogether.

This is how chanakiya works. If you blink, you will miss the fact that the f16 shoot down is merely a claim, as later in the article, it becomes gospel truth and a historical event that is discussed in relation to other matters.

Later in the same article, this unverified claim is conflated in terms of degree of accuracy with the mig21 shoot down as both are mentioned simultaneously.

 

[Smoke]

When I play Age of Empires, I also send my soldiers and equipment with low level and low HP to fight in useless fronts while keeping the best for the stronger front.

Usually I reach post imperial age in 10 mins, only upgrade my byzantine elite cataphracts with trample damage and spend all my gold on them.

They decimate everything.

 

[Uguduwa]

Usually I reach post imperial age in 10 mins, only upgrade my byzantine elite cataphracts with trample damage and spend all my gold on them.

They decimate everything.

I mostly play water maps with Japan so I have the power to see enemies and I build a good navy, upgrade the monitors and bomb the living shit out of the enemy starting from critical infrastructure like farms. Always felt like Dubya Bush while doing this.

I am talking about AOE3 btw.

 

[Smoke]

I mostly play water maps with Japan so I have the power to see enemies and I build a good navy, upgrade the monitors and bomb the living shit out of the enemy starting from critical infrastructure like farms. Always felt like Dubya Bush while doing this.

I am talking about AOE3 btw.

I didnt play AOE 3 too much, AOE 2 only.

Now waiting for AOE IV