TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[godofwar]

Why isn't Pakistan invited in this program ?

 

[LegionnairE]

Why isn't Pakistan invited in this program ?

They have JF17, which is cheap and reliable for them.

Btw @cabatli_53 @Combat-Master, what'you guys think?

 

[cabatli_53]

Choosing a fighter is like choosing your ally/side. It is about early signiture of participating the side Where you will stand at a likely crises so Joining into the league of fighterjet market is almost impossible.

What Turkey aims, is actually to develop a fighter that will be shaped by Turkish industry. Turkey don't want to take permission to do/integrate something on them because From missiles, munitions to avionics, radars are revealed into market by Turkish defence industry so While You are developing all those, Trying to beg USA in order to integrate all those to F-16/F-35, injures the respectability of industry. No need to mention USA uses such deals in order to gain advantages on politic events.

 

[LegionnairE]

Choosing a fighter is like choosing your ally/side. It is about early signiture of participating the side Where you will stand at a likely crises so Joining into the league of fighterjet market is almost impossible.

Exactly, choosing a fighter is joining a pact. Except we're still be choosing the American F135 engine. Who's gonna buy our fighter, who's gonna join our pact?

Best choice we have is F135, and it's not good enough. We can take 10-15 years, whatever it takes to catch-up with engine manufacturers like RR, GE, P&W in the meantime F16 retirement nears and we have a solid replacement. In the meantime we focus on civilian airliner R&D.

How many TF-X is Azerbaijan going to buy? 30? Who else is going to buy? Our diplomatic ties with Egypt is frozen because we interfered with their internal matters. We have not many defence partners and Turkish Air Force sure as hell doesn't need two multi-role fighters.

Instead we build a narrow-body airliner, we catch up with companies like Bombardier, Embraer today so we Can have a chance to compete with companies like Boeing or Aribus tomorrow. In the civilian sector there are no pacts, we can sell our passenger planes to companies in USA, Russia, China, Iran and so on, there are no limitations.

Just because the ruling party doesn't have the vision to see past 2023 doesn't mean that we shouldn't either. We are a great nation, we should be able to plan 50 years ahead.

 

[Targon]

Is TFX going to be a multirole fighter too ? since we have F16s and F35 are coming too I thought it might be Air superiority.

 

[LegionnairE]

Is TFX going to be a multirole fighter too ? since we have F16s and F35 are coming too I thought it might be Air superiority.

We don't have any good options Targon.

We can build an air superiority fighter with twin F110 engines but it would be outdated by 2030s it's old even for now.

 

[Indos]

Why don't you join KFX program once again, South Korea, Indonesia, and Turkey can create huge market for the KFX program. I dont understand whyTurkey wants to develop TFX by themselves....? We dont have to jump too high, do we ?

 

[cabatli_53]

Why don't you join KFX program once again, South Korea, Indonesia, and Turkey can create huge market for the KFX program. I dont understand whyTurkey wants to develop TFX by themselves....? We dont have to jump too high, do we ?

Turkey wants to control the project from left and right, top and down instead of being a fund source and limited production step of program. Development of a national fighter is a national ambitious of Turkish republic at the beggining of establishment and Our generation grown up with How our aircraft production brends were closed by corrupt politicians so All people feel themselves charged to carry out this proud mission. That's why We must develop a fighter that will fly until 100. anniversary of Turkish republic in 2023. The fighter to be developed, should be called as our own. That's the important point.

In this aspect, The share S. Korea offered us (%20 Indonesia-%20 Turkey-%60 Korea), is not satisfactory. What Turkey offered Korea is equal partnership, equal engineering support, management and production like (%20 Indonesia, %40 Turkey, %40 Korea). As far as I know They updated their offers like %30 Turkey but It was rejected by our side again. Our Korean friends can enlighten the subject more...

 

[Indos]

Turkey wants to control the project from left and right, top and down instead of being a fund source and limited production step of program. The share S. Korea offered us (%20 Indonesia-%20 Turkey-%60 Korea), is not satisfactory. What Turkey offered Korea is equal partnership, equal engineering support, management and production like (%20 Indonesia, %40 Turkey, %40 Korea). As far as I know They updated their offers like %30 Turkey but It was rejected by our side again. Our Korean friends can enlighten the subject more...

Honestly, we have been witnessing that SK is quite generous in sharing tech with us. In term of engineering, our engineers are also working side by side with them and has made important contribution as well just like what I have informed in PDF KFX thread. Of course they need to be the project manager, but as long as the plane is good enough and suit with our needs so why we have to bother about who is project leader. I believe it will be quite difficult to get any stealth project go on by just one country, especially for any country that has little experience in jet fighter building. Actually, in the second phase, all parties has freedom to develop the plane by themselves.

 

[cabatli_53]

Honestly, we have been witnessing that SK is quite generous in sharing tech with us. In term of engineering, our engineers are also working side by side with them and has made important contribution as well just like what I have informed in PDF KFX thread. Of course they need to be the project manager, but as long as the plane is good enough and suit with our needs so why we have to bother about who is project leader. I believe it will be quite difficult to get any stealth project go on by just one country, especially for any country that has little experience in jet fighter building. Actually, in the second phase, all parties has freedom to develop the plane by themselves.

but What Turkey wants is not actually acquiring/learning aircraft technology from S. Korea but equal leadership and engineering on fighter. In additions, The production cake to be shared in serial production and export rights/rules/licence rights/seperation of $$$ at export markets. All is about project management and rights of sides on fighter...

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkish industry developed/is developing almost all subsystems forming an aircraft such as AESA radars, electro-optics, electronics, avionics, missiles, advanced production materials...etc. The things only remained is motor and an aerodynamic design. The motor will be acquired from abroad like Korea is planning to do. To design a fuselage along with trial process for qualification of elated design, It is no need to fund a project which was offered %20-30 partnership by Korea (I think).

 

[Indos]

but What Turkey wants is not actually acquiring/learning aircraft technology from S. Korea but equal leadership and engineering on fighter. In additions, The production cake to be shared in serial production and export rights/rules/participation of $$$ at export markets. All is about project management and rights of sides on fighter...

I believe in term of airframe, our aircraft company will make it 100 % in here, so in term of economic and engineering benefit, I believe it is a very good deal for our aircraft industry. Even there is a talk before between us and SK to make all airframe production in Indonesia since we can make it much cheaper here, but SK seems not agree on that. Any other components is something that we can freely to choose as a plane maker.

Talking about the license fee and how much you have to give to other party when you sell it abroad is something that I see not really that important. Being able to realize this project is something that is huge enough in my opinion. It can create enough engineers that specialize in designing fighter jet. As I have said already, this plane will be made in a serial type. And if you don't feel that you really own this project, you can develop the next serial of yourselves and utilize all of your defense industries capabilities for this second serial.

 

[KemalPasa]

Engines... engines... engines... we should invest the billions to catch up with the current technology of diesel and jet engines instead of investing them to a project which is probably going to be a failure. I may be a little pessimist here but you can't develop a state of the art 5th. gen jet in 9-10 years if you're starting from scratch. We should've take the SK's %30 offer when we had the chance.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

but What Turkey wants is not actually acquiring/learning aircraft technology from S. Korea but equal leadership and engineering on fighter. In additions, The production cake to be shared in serial production and export rights/rules/licence rights/seperation of $$$ at export markets. All is about project management and rights of sides on fighter...

I think after 1st prototype flight some countries will join... And sure İnshaAllah we will decide rules of joining...

And about producing our own jet.... We lost so many time & we have no tolerance even a single time to lose as you said...

 

[Hakan]

Turkish Radar Signature Prediction and Analysis Software.

My guess is that this will be used in the TFX program.