TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Path-Finder]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607557362734202882

is there some truth to this claim? a F16 sized fighter in the future!

 

[hyperman]

This thread is about the TF-X not India Pakistan, can you guys go argue somewhere else?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607557362734202882

is there some truth to this claim? a F16 sized fighter in the future!

Its possible they reuse the aesa, avionics and engine for a lightweight fighter but I don't think anything has been announced.

 

[Celestyal]

TF-X's engines have been installed.

CEO Temel Kotil: "Our technicians have integrated the engines of the MMU. The technicians in question probably performed the same task around 300-400 times for our F-16's. This is not an easy task at all."

 

[Cookie Monster]

So Hindustan, Bharat, India all were terms used only by outsiders is it?

The level of delusion and denial of your own history..Whatever dude, whatever..

Let me break it down for ur thick head and spoon feed u some knowledge.
Hindustan(land of Hindus)
The words Hinduism, Hindu, Hindustan, Hind, Sindh, Sindhu...all are rooted in Indus river(known as Sindh).

Bharat is the legendary king mentioned in Mahabharata.

...and India...well that leads us back to Indus.

It doesn't matter who used those terms. The point u conveniently ignored...is that ur argument that Pakistan WAS India...falls flat on its face. As there was no "India"(like the one that exists today) until after partition.

Prior to 1947...
There was British India which included present day Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar.
...this is NOT India...instead it is a British colony that was referred to as British India and it meant the region(subcontinent).

During the times that Britain had slowly started taking over...and the local rulers were diminishing in power. There were Kingdoms of Mysore and Hyderabad, there were Marathas, and a declining and much reduced Mughal empire along with areas held by British East India Company.

A time prior to that...there were Mughals at the height of their power where they held much sway over most of the subcontinent. This too...was with ever changing borders. Before Mughals...there were other dynasties like Lodhis, Tughlaqs, etc...reaching back to the early Delhi Sultanate established by the Mamluks.
...around this time when Delhi Sultanate was established(early days)...there was Vijayanagra empire...

If we go further back...there were Chalukya, Pala, and Chola empires...
Before that there was Gupta empire...
...and so on.

Now how about u return to ur original argument(below)...instead of changing it and PROVE it with evidence.
"There was no Pakistan till 1948..it was all India."
...show me how modern day Pakistan was all India.

Either show me a map with an independent country called India that existed before 1947 and included present day Pakistan..
OR
GTFO of this thread.

 

[That Guy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607557362734202882

is there some truth to this claim? a F16 sized fighter in the future!

I wouldn't be surprised. There will always be a need for a fighter the size and weight class as the F-16. They're just cheaper to operate than twin engines, which the TF-X will be.

Let me break it down for ur thick head and spoon feed u some knowledge.
Hindustan(land of Hindus)
The words Hinduism, Hindu, Hindustan, Hind, Sindh, Sindhu...all are rooted in Indus river(known as Sindh).

Bharat is the legendary king mentioned in Mahabharata.

...and India...well that leads us back to Indus.

It doesn't matter who used those terms. The point u conveniently ignored...is that ur argument that Pakistan WAS India...falls flat on its face. As there was no "India"(like the one that exists today) until after partition.

Prior to 1947...
There was British Raj which included present day Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar.
...this is NOT India...instead it is a British colony that was referred to as British India and it meant the region(subcontinent).

During the times that Britain had slowly started taking over...and the local rulers were diminishing in power. There were Kingdoms of Mysore and Hyderabad, there were Marathas, and a declining and much reduced Mughal empire along with areas held by British East India Company.

A time prior to that...there were Mughals at the height of their power where they held much sway over most of the subcontinent. This too...was with ever changing borders. Before Mughals...there were other dynasties like Lodhis, Tughlaqs, etc...reaching back to the early Delhi Sultanate established by the Mamluks.
...around this time when Delhi Sultanate was established(early days)...there was Vijayanagra empire...

If we go further back...there were Chalukya, Pala, and Chola empires...
Before that there was Gupta empire...
...and so on.

Now how about u return to ur original argument(below)...instead of changing it and PROVE it with evidence.
"There was no Pakistan till 1948..it was all India."
...show me how modern day Pakistan was all India.

@MirageBlue

This thread is about the TF-X. Any further discussions on unrelated topics will result in negative ratings and reports.

 

[Path-Finder]

I wouldn't be surprised. There will always be a need for a fighter the size and weight class as the F-16. They're just cheaper to operate than twin engines, which the TF-X will be.

that would be an upset for the powas, if it materialises.

Its possible they reuse the aesa, avionics and engine for a lightweight fighter but I don't think anything has been announced.

it would be making a fighter step below after pulling of a gen 5 fighter. more doable if 5 gen is a success and enlarging the trainer to something on the same level as a F16.

 

[hyperman]

it would be making a fighter step below after pulling of a gen 5 fighter. more doable if 5 gen is a success and enlarging the trainer to something on the same level as a F16.

The F-16 was created as a lightweight cheaper fighter compared to the more expensive F-15, reusing much of the F-15s subcomponents like the engine and other things. In some ways the F-35 is a derivative of the F-22 as well, as the F135 engine in the F-35 was developed fro the F119 on the Raptor, and other subcomponents and designs helped in the development of the F-35. Its not really a step down, both would be 5th gen fighters. The Russians are planning something similar with the Su-75 using tech from the Su-57, like its izdeliye 30 engine and other things.

 

[Ali_Baba]

that would be an upset for the powas, if it materialises.


it would be making a fighter step below after pulling of a gen 5 fighter. more doable if 5 gen is a success and enlarging the trainer to something on the same level as a F16.

interesting if turkey does pursue a single engine fighter path - a number of countries have tried this ( JF17, Mirage 2k, Russian Su-75 Checkmate, J10CE, Korean T-50, Gripen, the Samosa ) all with a view of trying to occupy the same space that the F16 occupied interms of fighter sales. None of them have been as successful interms of sales as the F16 was. If Turkey needs one for its own opertional needs - then that is all good - but i am not sure the market exists for another entrant in the export category.

 

[Path-Finder]

interesting if turkey does pursue a single engine fighter path - a number of countries have tried this ( JF17, Mirage 2k, Russian Su-75 Checkmate, J10CE, Korean T-50, Gripen, the Samosa ) all with a view of trying to occupy the same space that the F16 occupied interms of fighter sales. None of them have been as successful interms of sales as the F16 was. If Turkey needs one for its own opertional needs - then that is all good - but i am not sure the market exists for another entrant in the export category.

F16 is the most successful fighter in history. but it comes with its own political headache. with advancement in tech building a equivalent fighter or better is not impossible.

the biggest reason is the political demagogue with F16 that will push nations to making an independent fighter aircraft. just like Pakistan did.

 

[hyperman]

interesting if turkey does pursue a single engine fighter path - a number of countries have tried this ( JF17, Mirage 2k, Russian Su-75 Checkmate, J10CE, Korean T-50, Gripen, the Samosa ) all with a view of trying to occupy the same space that the F16 occupied interms of fighter sales. None of them have been as successful interms of sales as the F16 was. If Turkey needs one for its own opertional needs - then that is all good - but i am not sure the market exists for another entrant in the export category.

Well yes, matching the f-16's commercial success is difficult. Its probably the most popular 4th gen fighter ever. But It doesn't mean there isn't a niche for a 5th gen light fighter. For example, many countries cannot acquire the F-35 for political reasons(Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia Indonesia, Azerbaijan, Morocco, etc), the only option for them for a modern 5th gen fighter would be either the Russian Su-75(which will come with CAATSA sanctions) or the Chinese aircraft(J-31), and maybe the Korean aircraft(KF-X). Out of these three options, I would say there is a decent market size for a lightweight fighter if Turkey does decide to go down that route...

 

[Silicon0000]

I don't think there would be anything between hurjet and TFX other than an armed version of hurjet like Korean T50. Or Maybe a version of Hurjet with locally developed engine.

 

[dBSPL]

I don't think there would be anything between hurjet and TFX other than an armed version of hurjet like Korean T50. Or Maybe a version of Hurjet with locally developed engine.

Although it is not yet known whether it will turn into a contract, we know that TAI is working on a technical study to create an intermediate solution(s) between these two platforms. It is too early to talk about a single-engine variant for the MMU, but Hurjet project executives have previously announced that technical work on the naval/STOL attack variant is ongoing.

But currently, TAI's number one priority in manned platforms is the MMU project. So far, we know that both state institutions and partner companies in project have mobilized all their resources to ensure that this project proceeds within the accelerated timetable.

***

When evaluated in a long projection: The post-2030s combatant structure, which is seems designed as 4 main platforms, including 3 main combat platforms (MMU, KE and ANKA-3 groups) and one advanced training/light attack platform(Hurjet group), will probably include a total of 7-8 different variants.

While the ANKA-3 and MIUS-KE will become larger platforms in advanced variants, the Hurjet will at least have a more powerful engine configuration and possibly a geometry with more wing area, if the naval platform study turns into a contract. There has been much speculation recently about a single-engine variant that will be forked from the MMU project. Although there is no official announcement yet, I believe that the TuAF, one of the most important F-16 user air forces in the world, may consider it.

I think that in the fleet structuring within the combatant platforms of the air force, unmanned systems will not be included in the current fleet structuring, but will be evaluated as an addition to it. In other words, in the 2040s, the air force will still want to keep around 300 combatant 'manned' jet platforms in its inventory.

Export opportunities and the state of the international market are secondary issues. We can talk about something positive in this regard as well. But the main priority will be the process of independence/self-sufficiency of the Turkish air force and aerospace industry collaboration. On the other hand, especially when the MMU project starts full-scale mass production, TAI will have reached a global scale in terms of company size. In order to maintain continuity in the workforce for a few decades, especially on the design side, the company will continue to focus on new projects.

The workforce I'm talking about will be a cluster of roughly 10,000 people from dozens of different disciplines, with experience working on the 5th generation jet project. So yes, the MMU will continue to evolve, but we will also continue to see new designs and approaches in the 2030s. I would like to emphasize that the main target of Turkish aviation is neither MMU nor KE. While these platforms provide solutions to the needs of the Turkish Air Force within their own unique doctrinal approaches, they are essentially intermediate steps for the Turkish aviation industry to rise to the top-tier, to the near of century old aviation giants.

 

[manpk77]

I would say there is a decent market size for a lightweight fighter if Turkey does decide to go down that route...

That also comes with strict restrictions due to American and European parts.

 

[snne]

Temel KAotil:
In the early 2000s, we started the MMU project with 60 engineers. 'Where can we find 10 more engineers?' We were thinking.

We recruited 1600 engineers and 1200 technicians in 2022, and we will continue at this pace in 2023.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[hyperman]

That also comes with strict restrictions due to American and European parts.

like what? the avionics are from aselsan, The Engine is supposed to be domestic eventually, and the composites are domestic as well.