TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[-SINAN-]

boss cebatlı how is it possible with one engine 50.000-60.000lb this is lifting lb or thurst lb ?

View attachment 193939

That's the weight of the Aircraft not the thrust of the engine.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

EJ-200: 20250lbf
EJ-230: 23500lbf
F110-GE129: 29500lbf

Consider FX-1 as 65000lb for example...


FX-1 with EJ-200 T/W ratio : 40500lbf/29,4 tonnes: 1377,5lbf/tonnes
FX-1 with EJ-235 T/W ratio: 47000lbf/29,4 tonnes: 1598,5lbf/tonnes
FX-1 with F110-GE129 TW ratio: 59000lbf/29,4 tonnes: 2006,8lbf/tonnes
F-16 Block-50+ T/W ratio: 28000lbf/19,2 tonnes: 1458,3 lbf/tonnes
Eurofighter T/W ratio: 40500lbf/23,5tonnes: 1723,5lbf/tonnes
F-35 T/W ratio: 43000lbf/31,8tonnes: 1352,2 lbf/tonnes
F-22 T/W ratio: 70000lbf/38 tonnes: 1842,5 lbf/tonnes

F110 is an old engine so i think it has disadvantages in terms of high-tech like Sinan's example...

Ej-230 Dry weight: 990 kg
F110 Dry weight: 2000 kg

There can be more problems with fuel efficiency, reliability, efficiency etc... Maintenance... One example, when i read Eurojet's official's interview he said they are able to take down whole engine in 45 minutes... Cost of maintenance... IDK...

 

[SouI]

F110 is an old engine so i think it has disadvantages in terms of high-tech like Sinan's example...



There can be more problems with fuel efficiency, reliability, efficiency etc... Maintenance... One example, when i read Eurojet's official's interview he said they are able to take down whole engine in 45 minutes... Cost of maintenance... IDK...

That is indeed really important.

People love to bash F-35 due to it being single-engined. However that single engine puts 2x of the thrust of other single engines do in general, equaling to dual-engine power with only one.

And it is especially designed to reduce the costs of engine maintenance. It is pretty easy to check it up and very cost-effective.

If we would design our plane without deep-analyzing for the later, then we might end up having really huge problems in the future.

It should not cost a fortune to maintain every single engine, and it should be able to be done really fast for war-case scenarios.

Our LPD will be very busy with planes in line to be maintained and not much space is reserved for that purpose as well. Even though they will use F-35B, which uses the same amazing state-of-the-art F-135, we still need such a sophisticated solution for our own indie fighter.

 

[Hexciter]

EJ-200: 20250lbf
EJ-230: 23500lbf
F110-GE129: 29500lbf

Consider FX-1 as 65000lb for example...


FX-1 with EJ-200 T/W ratio : 40500lbf/29,4 tonnes: 1377,5lbf/tonnes
FX-1 with EJ-235 T/W ratio: 47000lbf/29,4 tonnes: 1598,5lbf/tonnes
FX-1 with F110-GE129 TW ratio: 59000lbf/29,4 tonnes: 2006,8lbf/tonnes
F-16 Block-50+ T/W ratio: 28000lbf/19,2 tonnes: 1458,3 lbf/tonnes
Eurofighter T/W ratio: 40500lbf/23,5tonnes: 1723,5lbf/tonnes
F-35 T/W ratio: 43000lbf/31,8tonnes: 1352,2 lbf/tonnes
F-22 T/W ratio: 70000lbf/38 tonnes: 1842,5 lbf/tonnes

Don't forget F414-EPE engine from GE. It has a power of 26400 lbf which is so close to F110. GE is also share holder in TEI.

 

[Hexciter]

Don't forget F414-EPE engine from GE. It has a power of 26400 lbf which is so close to F110. GE is also share holder in TEI.

According to Cabatlı's calculations; it gives a power of 1796 lbf per tonnes which is close to F22.

 

[cabatli_53]

Ej-230 Dry weight: 990 kg
F110 Dry weight: 2000 kg

So with the correction.

FX-1 with EJ-235 T/W ratio: 47000lbf/29,4 tonnes: 1598,5lbf/tonnes
FX-1 with F110-GE129 TW ratio: 59000lbf/31,4 tonnes: 1878,9lbf/tonnes

Also why F110-GE-132 hasn't been taken into consideration...it has 32000lbf thrust which makes:

FX-1 with F110-GE132 TW ratio: 64000lbf/31,4 tonnes: 2038,2lbf/tonnes

It is estimated MTOW (65000lbf) of FX-1 that dry weight of engine is also calculated inside of figure. There is not a certain specification table of prototypes so The taken figures serve to calculate more or less avarage numbers that is normal in that phase...

boss cebatlı how is it possible with one engine 50.000-60.000lb this is lifting lb or thurst lb ?

View attachment 193939

The 50,000-60000-70000lb are the estimated max. take off weight of aircraft.

Also why F110-GE-132 hasn't been taken into consideration...it has 32000lbf thrust which makes:

FX-1 with F110-GE132 TW ratio: 64000lbf/31,4 tonnes: 2038,2lbf/tonnes

Hope but You know It is about permissions. I don't suppose that USA will give a green light to an impressive engine like GE132 which generates 32000lbf for special costumers.

Don't forget that GE129 is also one of the best , matured and reliable engine which powers up Turkish F-16 Block-50+ and S. Korean, Saudi Arabian and Singape F-15 variant fighters as well. Turkish AirForce have serious experiences on that variant and capability of depot level maintainance in home so I think GE-129B is one of the strongest candidate for FX-1.

F-15K GE-129 engine

Even If MTOW reaches max declared point like 70000lb at worst scenario, Two GE-129 engine keep generating enough thrust that will be almost equal T/W ratio with an F-22 fighter. Those figures will make TF-X one of the strongest aircraft in that league.

 

[cabatli_53]

TFX-1 with F110-GE129 TW ratio: 59,000lbf/31,751 tonnes (max70000lb): 1858,2 lbf/tonnes
F-22 T/W ratio: 70,000lbf/38 tonnes: 1842,5 lbf/tonnes
Eurofighter T/W ratio: 40,500lbf/23,5tonnes: 1723,5lbf/tonnes
F-16 Block-50+ T/W ratio: 29,500lbf/19,2 tonnes: 1536,4 lbf/tonnes
Rafale T/W ratio: 34,000lbf/24,5 : 1387,75 lbf/tonnes
F-35 T/W ratio: 43,000lbf/31,8tonnes: 1352,2 lbf/tonnes


We should get licence rights of GE129 engines in a kind of way, Otherwise, Expecting such ambitious figures with Eurojet engines will remain as a dream in future.

 

[SouI]

TFX-1 with F110-GE129 TW ratio: 59,000lbf/31,751 tonnes (max70000lb): 1858,2 lbf/tonnes
F-22 T/W ratio: 70,000lbf/38 tonnes: 1842,5 lbf/tonnes
Eurofighter T/W ratio: 40,500lbf/23,5tonnes: 1723,5lbf/tonnes
F-16 Block-50+ T/W ratio: 29,500lbf/19,2 tonnes: 1536,4 lbf/tonnes
Rafale T/W ratio: 34,000lbf/24,5 : 1387,75 lbf/tonnes
F-35 T/W ratio: 43,000lbf/31,8tonnes: 1352,2 lbf/tonnes


We should get licence rights of GE129 engines in a kind of way, Otherwise, Expecting such ambitious figures with Eurojet engines will remain as a dream in future.

32 tonnes of weight? Is it really confirmed?

 

[AUz]

Can anybody tell me if Turkish Companies have officially started the TF-X program? Which design is selected for the program?

Any updates regarding that? What is the official direction right now?

@Sinan @cabatli_53

 

[SouI]

Can anybody tell me if Turkish Companies have officially started the TF-X program? Which design is selected for the program?

Any updates regarding that? What is the official direction right now?

@Sinan @cabatli_53

The third one, the one with dual-engine has been selected.

The design process will start whenever the engine for the fighter will be certain.

Turkish companies have done/still are professing their shares of work to be ready for the production. Necessary technologies have been re-introduced/re-invented/adopted by Turkish firms and are readied for perfecting and put the national contribution rate as high as possible.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

I read this in last issue of S&H... I don't know if they are all of the offers but it says offers are F414-GE-400, EJ200, Snecma M88... And they say there will be a detailed evaluation about T/F-X engine in the next issue...

 

[SouI]

I read this in last issue of S&H... I don't know if they are all of the offers but it says offers are F414-GE-400, EJ200, Snecma M88... And they say there will be a detailed evaluation about T/F-X engine in the next issue...

This is the exact reason why we need our own indie engine asap..... None of them really shines when you consider the targeted/expected thrust power.

 

[-SINAN-]

This is the exact reason why we need our own indie engine asap..... None of them really shines when you consider the targeted/expected thrust power.

Mate, i don't really get amused when our people say..."Ohh,, let's build our own turbofan-engine", it's not easy like that.

 

[SouI]

Mate, i don't really get amused when our people say..."Ohh,, let's build our own turbofan-engine", it's not easy like that.

Man, trust me ik it is a very hard and complicated, and also expensive process. I am not saying like "let's just build a jet-engine!!! Yeeyy!!!"

I am more like saying:"We really should put more focus on this subject, and start getting on already, so that maybe in 2023 we might have our first prototypes of our indie engines, when the first prototypes of our indie fighter will be ready."

 

[-SINAN-]

Man, trust me ik it is a very hard and complicated, and also expensive process. I am not saying like "let's just build a jet-engine!!! Yeeyy!!!"

I am more like saying:"We really should put more focus on this subject, and start getting on already, so that maybe in 2023 we might have our first prototypes of our indie engines, when the first prototypes of our indie fighter will be ready."

If everything goes according to plan, we will be able to finish the prototype of 20-30kN Turbofan by 2023.

For a Turbo-fan engine which is intended to being used on a plane...if we put in 10 of Billions $...maybe we can finish by 2035....