TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[kartal1]

I don’t know. Pakistan could help Turkey with their experience in +3. Generation fighter jet knowledge, but I don’t think it would help a lot to develop a 5. Generation fighter jet. About T129, Pakistan will made decision on requirements of Pakistan army.

The deal for T129 is almost sealed.

 

[Saithan]

I fell over an article that shares some thoughts on Pakistans choice of T129

https://quwa.org/2017/10/29/discuss...elicopters-future-industry-acquisition-paths/

 

[YoungTurk01]

Better than countries never develop a fighter
It is precious experience in Muslim world

The business between jf17 and t129 is good for both country
You should help each other

It’s a huge investment for Turkey time and money to buy jf17 which that’s why we won’t go for it, because background our military adaptation of western weapons system, A-Z , communications, computer, radar, ammo etc.
it does not mean that Jf17 is not good enough. Just changing aircraft background and comperibility with our system would be costly, buying it is easy, part.
which I m not even mention repair etc. training techs....

 

[Oublious]

Better than countries never develop a fighter
It is precious experience in Muslim world

The business between jf17 and t129 is good for both country
You should help each other

The experienc what Turkey gained from F16 is not to compare with JF17, Turkey can copy cat F16 with no problem. From engine to avionics, but we are looking for 5 gen fighter.

 

[TheMightyBender]

I kept myself from saying this for a long time because there are some great Pakistani guys here who I don't want to offend, but now I have to say it.
1- Pakistan didn't design JF17. It is an old soviet design that China copied and lets Pakistan produce some of the parts. Hence I doubt that Pakistan could provide any knowledge in TFX that we don't have already.
2- JF17 is barely even a 4th gen fighter. It is closer to a 3+ as Bismarck said. It is far from meeting our requirements. I am sure most Pakistani guys in this forum know that if Pakistan had a choice even they wouldn't buy it.
3- Why would we even consider JF17 when even if all else fails we can just produce more F16s? What advantage does JF17 have over F16 (especially for us) except the cost (which I don't think will be much lower due to the air force compatibility issues as @YoungTurk01 mentioned)

And don't get me wrong, JF17 is a very good fighter, for the right people. It is very cost effective and should be the first choice in the world for countries that are getting jets for the first time or have more important priorities than air defense. For us, it is just not right.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

@TheMightyBender

Brother, while you're absolutely right that JF17 is a significantly inferior choice, we must take into account the simple notion of cost-effectiveness and the fact that most of the time (at least in Turkey's case) fighter aircraft are used for asymmetric warfare against ground targets who have little or no defense against air assault. While I agree that Turkey needs more capable aircraft for deterrence purposes against nation-states, it should be noted that JF17 would be more than enough carrying out air patrol, recon and bombing runs on the PKK/YPG in Syria and Northern Iraq.

JF17 with cutting-edge Turkish avionics and a new Aselsan AESA radar can actually even be a formidable interceptor against 4th gen aircraft of our neighbors as well. Especially when we take into account the quality of quantity.

 

[alphapak]

I don’t know. Pakistan could help Turkey with their experience in +3. Generation fighter jet knowledge, but I don’t think it would help a lot to develop a 5. Generation fighter jet. About T129, Pakistan will made decision on requirements of Pakistan army.

JF17 Thunder is a 4th Generation fighter jet and Block 3 will be 4.5 gen with aesa radar.
Pakistan has started AZM project to build 5th Gen fighter with China. Go on PAF forum to
find out more.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Both of you have made very valid points. Like @Vord said. If Turkey can somehow figure JF17 into their defence mechanisms because of its low cost maintenance etc etc, also you could make up more numbers in light category, whereas leaving out medium and heavy aircracfts like TFX for air superiority.

@TheMightyBender

Brother, while you're absolutely right that JF17 is a significantly inferior choice, we must take into account the simple notion of cost-effectiveness and the fact that most of the time (at least in Turkey's case) fighter aircraft are used for asymmetric warfare against ground targets who have little or no defense against air assault. While I agree that Turkey needs more capable aircraft for deterrence purposes against nation-states, it should be noted that JF17 would be more than enough carrying out air patrol, recon and bombing runs on the PKK/YPG in Syria and Northern Iraq.

JF17 with cutting-edge Turkish avionics and a new Aselsan AESA radar can actually even be a formidable interceptor against 4th gen aircraft of our neighbors as well. Especially when we take into account the quality of quantity.

And also I agree with @TheMightyBender JF17 is more suited for some ME, African and Central Asian nations.

I kept myself from saying this for a long time because there are some great Pakistani guys here who I don't want to offend, but now I have to say it.
1- Pakistan didn't design JF17. It is an old soviet design that China copied and lets Pakistan produce some of the parts. Hence I doubt that Pakistan could provide any knowledge in TFX that we don't have already.
2- JF17 is barely even a 4th gen fighter. It is closer to a 3+ as Bismarck said. It is far from meeting our requirements. I am sure most Pakistani guys in this forum know that if Pakistan had a choice even they wouldn't buy it.
3- Why would we even consider JF17 when even if all else fails we can just produce more F16s? What advantage does JF17 have over F16 (especially for us) except the cost (which I don't think will be much lower due to the air force compatibility issues as @YoungTurk01 mentioned)

And don't get me wrong, JF17 is a very good fighter, for the right people. It is very cost effective and should be the first choice in the world for countries that are getting jets for the first time or have more important priorities than air defense. For us, it is just not right.

 

[UkroTurk]

Which troll ignited that jf17 shit? last 24 hours here have been spoken ridiculous things. What the fck this jf17 craze?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Nobody's saying it's better than the F-16 one-on-one, but given how most of Turkey's actual operational sorties are for recon and anti-asymmetric warfare (anti-terror ops), I don't see why flying a low-cost platform like JF-17 is a bad idea. Some people here pay way more attention to the branding/packaging than what its actual usefulness is per dollar spent.

 

[OguzSenturk]

F-16 already has relatively low fly cost, also Hürkuş/Hürjet will cover lower cost gap for operations.

I don't see any reason for Turkey to go for non-5gen fighter.

 

[royalharris]

I kept myself from saying this for a long time because there are some great Pakistani guys here who I don't want to offend, but now I have to say it.
1- Pakistan didn't design JF17. It is an old soviet design that China copied and lets Pakistan produce some of the parts. Hence I doubt that Pakistan could provide any knowledge in TFX that we don't have already.
2- JF17 is barely even a 4th gen fighter. It is closer to a 3+ as Bismarck said. It is far from meeting our requirements. I am sure most Pakistani guys in this forum know that if Pakistan had a choice even they wouldn't buy it.
3- Why would we even consider JF17 when even if all else fails we can just produce more F16s? What advantage does JF17 have over F16 (especially for us) except the cost (which I don't think will be much lower due to the air force compatibility issues as @YoungTurk01 mentioned)

And don't get me wrong, JF17 is a very good fighter, for the right people. It is very cost effective and should be the first choice in the world for countries that are getting jets for the first time or have more important priorities than air defense. For us, it is just not right.

Pakistan and China codeveloped JF17, From concept,requirement to design, Pakistan contributed a lot, without Pakistan,there will be no JF17

Assembling F16 with License is totally different to develop a fighter from scratch

Pakistan have the talents and technology, they need money and facilities which turkey can provide together

NATO technology is not equal to USA technology, USA will share there technology with no one
So called NATO or west technology have long lost their advantage nowadays , except overrated boasting

Pakistan is country which absorbs west and east technology, it is technology giant in Muslim world, pls respect your brother,cooperate together, it will be a good thing

 

[OguzSenturk]

they need money and facilities which are turkey can provide

Turkey does not have money at all. Our economy made up by dirt, with 70-80billion trade deficit 35-45billion yearly account deficit, %10+ interest rate, %13 unemployment rate,currency losing %20-25 value every year.

Turkey is the one who needs money.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

To play devil's advocate that is what JVs are for to sharing cost burden and economies of scale.

But u guys should stay on topic or open a new thread

Turkey does not have money at all. Our economy made up by dirt, with 70-80billion trade deficit 35-45billion yearly account deficit, %10+ interest rate, %13 unemployment rate,currency losing %20-25 value every year.

Turkey is the one who needs money.

 

[OguzSenturk]

JVs are for to sharing cost burden and economies of scale.

I am not against Pakistan and other brother nations to join our TF-X program and share the cost of the program together. I actually would love to see this happening.

Turkey has no money to fund additional programs for other nations, this is a fact.