Terror activities of Indian consulates in Afghanistan

[Solomon2]

The content of the story leaves it vague as to the main purpose of Indian activities. It could be development, not terrorism. I'm inclined to believe the former, because if Indian activities really pointed directly towards terrorism, don't you think the Daily Times would have trumpeted it?

 

[Patriot]

The content of the story leaves it vague as to the main purpose of Indian activities. It could be development, not terrorism. I'm inclined to believe the former, because if Indian activities really pointed directly towards terrorism, don't you think the Daily Times would have trumpeted it?

Mr Musharraf has said he is well aware of Indian Terrorist Activities in Kabul and he is not just some non credible journalist.He is Former COAS, Former MI/MO Head.

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

India is doing a lot of development work in Afghanistan. There's plenty of proof for that alright.

If India really wanted to stir up things in Baluchistan, there would be atleast the same amount of violence there as in other parts of Pakistan.

Balochistan seems to be the calmest part of Pakistan at the moment. Need I say anything more?

 

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

Mr Musharraf has said he is well aware of Indian Terrorist Activities in Kabul and he is not just some non credible journalist.He is Former COAS, Former MI/MO Head.

Musharraf is far less credible than a reputed journalist. He represents the Pakistani point of view - nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Hellfire]

Look, its quite simple - Pakistan pours money into Kashmir, India retaliates in Balochistan. After many decades India has the opportunity to gain leverage over Pakistan with respect to the terrorism in Kashmir, and they are not going to pass up the opportunity.

Still, the impact is minimal - just enough to remind Pakistan that India has a bargaining chip - India has no intention of destabilizing Pakistan more than it already is.

you are absolutely right about not wanting to destabilise, but at the same time India is sure to maintain diplomatic pressure on Pakistan to such a level that at times GoP may be bound to accuse it of fomenting trouble in Pakistan ...... Indian interest in helping groups in Pakistan may be limited to so far as that PA is kept busy and general public accept such groups as main threat and force a comprehensive policy change in GoP and ISI .... thus removing foreign backing of militancy in valley

 

[Hellfire]

Agnostic


Oh please, resorting to a validation of your argument by dredging up isolated incidents out of a sustained and dramatic drop in infiltration and violence across the board across the LoC and in Kashmir, over the past several years, is disingenuous to say the least.

No country will be able to guarantee an absolute drop in infiltration attempts, and what Pakistan has done over the past seven years is pretty remarkable (in conjunction with stepped up Indian efforts across the LoC as well of course).

Obviously post-Kargil the equation changed drastically for Pakistan. Whereas initially PA and GoP denied involvement of their regulars in the combat operations and attributed the whole campaign to local insurrection, some time later the same GoP and PA accepted involevement of their regulars in face of sustained pressure from the western nations who had the proof indicting the PA and GoP in the whole campaign. The loss of credibility of Pakistani claims coupled to restraint in national directives givento Indian army to wage war changed the equation for US-Pakistan scenario. US increasingly found itself defending a nation that was deeply involved in fomenting terrorism within the Kashmir Valley as also propping up a radical Taliban regime in Afghanistan which was beginning to show its true colors. However what really changed the whole scene was Sept 9/11 and the Afghan connection. In face of the involvement of ISI with Taliban and through them their being tagged with AQ and Osama, US was left with nothing but to force Pakistan to make amends. The coup in Pakistan also played a part as, hard to swallow as it may be, no ruler in Pakistan rules until and unless he/she has US blessings ....... PA had no options but to reduce the infiltration levels across LC, and not because it was sincere in its efforts. The reduction in incidents in valley are also attributed to rejection of violence by the local populance which found increasing numbers of foreign trained nationals fighting IA in valley. These were insensitive to locals and have been implicated in extortion, kidnapping and rape also.

I take the moral high ground because at this point in time, on the issue of interventions in Kashmir and Baluchistan, by Pakistan and India respectively, Pakistan does have the 'moral high ground' through a demonstrated commitment to keeping the situation calm and almost eliminating its interventionist policy in Kashmir.

The credibility of Baluchi angle is shaky for the fact remains that the only supply route for India to sustain covert ops there is through Afghanistan and as S-2 has highlighted the US doctrine with regards to cross border movement of personnel, its only possible with active cooperation of US and NATO .... something that is farthest stretch of imagination possible.

A complete and final dismantling of the militant groups will of course only
be feasible, due to domestic political compulsions (least of all not inviting a Taliban like backlash from the Kashmiri groups and their supporters) once India and Pakistan announce a framework for resolving kashmir, which is what I imagine the recent backchannel diplomacy was moving towards.

The logistical base for such a sustained tempo of operations by "kashmiri groups" does not exist within the state of Jammu & Kashmir. The only way that such actions can be sustained over a long period of time will be with continuous resupply from Pakistan and that means more complications for the peace process.

So once again, the onus is on India to determine whether or not she will accept Pakistan and end her continued interventionist policies in Pakistan and against Pakistan. Pakistan has tangibly demonstrated its intent for peace and normalization with India - reciprocity from India is awaited.

Demonstration has been very hazy at best and hopefully a clarity in approach and transparency in intent will be demonstrated by GoP and more importantly the PA.

Thanks

 

[Hellfire]

Hellfire,

My point still stands.
Indian diplomacy is quite renowned but when it comes to Pakistan; they, despite having proof would first like to engage in a volley of heated warnings rather than sharing the proof.
Pakistan was calmly asking for proof and to be honest if citizens of any country are accused of something without the evidence it will be denied till evidence is shared.
The Hawkish statements given prior to sharing the evidence only served the purpose of the terrorists and deviated our attention towards the east rather than west, where the real war is being fought.

My point is that animosity in the hearts overtakes all reasoning and common sense at times like these and that is the thing which the terrorists are aware of and will exploit.

Terrorism is a common threat and to deal with it some sort of relationship needs to be developed. Giving blanket statements like Pakistan needs to stop supporting terrorists is like calling us all terrorists. If you think that is productive then you can continue to do so at your own peril!
We are already in it too deep so whats the worse that can happen to us anymore?

There are terrorist movements at war with state in India as well and if tomorrow they become international then clearly you would not want to associate them with the state!
Similar is our case, the terrorists are not part of the state.
They have their own agenda and have martyred thousands of innocent men women and children.

Taliban were a narrow minded militant movement and were 2nd generation of the Afghan Mujahidden who were living here since Afghan Jihad and fought to take over the reigns of their country and unify the people under one roof.
This was a byproduct of post Afghan Jihad instability and it was and is always in Pakistan's interest that Afghanistan is again inhabited by the millions of Afghans living in Pakistan. For that the situation in Afghanistan needs to be stabilized.
This was one of the many concerns which Pakistan was dealing with when it sympathized with the Taliban.
The Taliban at that time were not terrorists but only militants like the many other factions fighting for controlling their homeland. They were not terrorists like TTP which is blowing up innocent civilians and claiming to be on a holy mission!
Even the USA did not raise hue and cry since all thought that unification of Afghan people would be better for all.
Sadly (for all the poor citizens) the Taliban became corrupted with absolute power and started going down a road where their opponents were not tolerated and a totalitarian regime was forced on the people.
I do not think anybody (in the governments and agencies of all the parties) saw all this coming.
If Pakistan/ISI is to be blamed for the instability then clearly USA/CIA should also be bashed by India, since the root of Taliban is in Afghan Jihad.
We can flaunt the mistakes and ill fated decisions of the parties involved as much as we like but it should end with some sort of understanding for the future and mutual agreement to support each other.

The post 9/11 scenario has given birth to many Taliban which overtly support terrorist acts and therefore are following Al Qaeda doctrine.
Whether they are Taliban of the past or not is not something i am bothered with anymore, i want them all to be smashed and punished.

Al Qaeda was never ever supported by Pakistan in any form.
Thanks to Al Qaeda the Muslim world is ablaze and still you hold on to the notion that AQ is supported by Pakistan?

LeT was banned in 2002 in Pakistan. TTP is also banned but banning alone does not solve the problem and that is why there is a War being waged in Pakistan whereby our lives and families are also at stake.

It does not help anyone if Pakistan is made the scapegoat for each and every terrorist activity and is declared the root of terrorism.
Pakistan is fighting the problem and is suffering most from it as well.
It will take time and a lot of effort and support is needed from all ends.
This problem is multidimensional and has many associated causes as well which need to be addressed in time.
For now diplomatic and intelligence level support and cooperation is needed amongst these troubled neighbours.

India/Pakistan should sign a non aggression pact or something to the effect.
I am no diplomat but if the two nations are convinced by their governments that they shall not go to war, the national sentiments would shift towards the threat posed by the terrorist organizations.
It shall ensure much more focus on the ultimate threat.

Afghanistan's instability has ravaged Pakistan.
If Pakistan is unstable it shall have dire consequences for India as well.

Our situation is like three rivals facing a pack of wolves, either we fight together as allies or die one by one as enemies.

I wish we had 400 years to learn, sadly we don't as far as i see.

All Green

I have convergence in part to the view shared by you and in full with your view about terrorism and about the need to combat it as one. The only thing that India has maintained, and even PM Manmohan has called Pakistan a victim of terror, is that as a continuance of late Gen Zia's policy (who saw the success of jihad operations and chose to implement them in Kashmir) the fabric of ISI and PA has been intertwined with those elements who still repose faith in the policy and see more benefit than problems from giving support albeit covert to the same. India has repeatedly called for these elements to be hunted mercilessly as they pose a greater challenge to Pakistan today than to anyone else.

With indoctrination from grass roots level and as you pointed out, the sprouting of jihad propogating schools along Pakistan-Afghanistan border, the thin line between indoctrination of the illiterate to fight Soviets got blurred to evolve into fighting all "infidels" irrespective of nationalities and to ensure the supremacy of Islam, and to unify all into the supreme brotherhood. This has changed the very nature of conflict which was being supported by CIA and put the controls firmly in the hands of ISI which has/had been providing humongous logistical/administrative/material supplies to these organisations.

Due to long duration of presence within the border of Pakistan and establishment of permanent bases and migratory nature of human beings as a general rule, the fanatical teachings were being propogated to the rural areas which had lower levels of primary education and eductaion was dominated by the religious schools. This has led to a whole generation of radicalised populance which deems any act to control them anti-Islam and as such is wreaking havoc on Pakistan today.

The first and foremost step which is needed on behalf of Pakistan is to recognise that elements within its security apparatus are still involved and that you need to remove them to be able to fight effectively.

Post 26/11 India had the best opportunity to go to war with Pakistan and gain limited concessions ..... but India chose to maintain posture for what is today most important is that Pakistan does not fall as a nation and PA and GoP remain strong and determined to fight this terror. The situation you are facing within Pakistan gives India a very clear run to break if it wants .... but that would be foolish as if you dont survive next 6 months (as US fears) we are looking at a long protracted war next against these very elements 10 months down the line .......

 

[Hellfire]

Mr Musharraf has said he is well aware of Indian Terrorist Activities in Kabul and he is not just some non credible journalist.He is Former COAS, Former MI/MO Head.

and he also denied PA-GoP involvement in Kargil; only to do a flip flop few years down the line ....... very credible I can see ....

 

[S-2]

I'll make this as short as I can.

Whatever activities the Indians may or may not be engaged in from Zahedan involve only Iran, India, and you. It wouldn't be an affair of Afghanistan, the U.N. mission, NATO/ISAF or America.

You do understand that, correct?

Neither are schools in Konar nor roads in Nimroz provocative. Ms. Fair's allusions to the N.A. and Mazur-I-Sharif twelve years ago were equally ridiculous.

Truthfully, her comments appear hysterical. Neither her peers nor I were particularly impressed. Predictably, you were.

As Americans are intimately aware by now what foreign interference from proxy armies really looks like, and understanding the many young soldiers and marines killed in Afghanistan from these armies and their notorious leaders, I see nothing of the same attacking Pakistan from Afghanistan.

Not remotely. Neither do you, actually.

You said so about Baluchistan, remember? Your army would defend that land if it was seriously threatened but they don't.

THEY SIMPLY WON'T DEFEND BALUCHISTAN. Why? Don't need to. It's not under attack.

FATA? Same thing. Your nation isn't under attack from Afghanistan. If it were, the FIRST thing most governments would do is send their army to it's defense. Not Pakistan.

It complains.

So, no, nobody believes that you're under assault from other lands. Nor would anybody invest the effort to do so.

Why?

Because Pakistan is already under assault from within. Nothing any external power can do will equal the assault that you now face internally and of it's own accord. These guys don't need external influences, weapons, nor money to hate you. They've reason, money, and weapons galore to hate Islamabad just fine without INDIA's help of all countries.

You've so MANY internal enemies of all ilks and political persuasion within your nation today that no foreign government in their right mind would bother doing what these groups do so much better.

Your claims fail the visual test. There's nothing comparable to what's on the other side of the border. Nobody's seen squat.

Your claims fail the common sense test. You've not responded with your own resources in a manner which indicates a threat. Neither Baluchistan nor FATA have received the level of security attention that the world's 7th largest army can muster.

Not even close.

Finally, and most important, you obfuscate the MASSIVE threat you face from within. That's a real, tangible, ever-present danger that dwarfs your fantasies. These men-Omar, Nazir, Faizullah, Bahadur, and Mehsud likely HATE the Indians and wouldn't accept a rupee one. Nor are they fools.

Anyway, it's my impression that the American government really doesn't believe. I think it's for the reasons above but I could be wrong.



Thanks.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

General ZIA once said
" If we can make the SOVIETS go out of AFGHANISTAN then we could do the SAME wit UNITED STATES also "

I believe MOSSAD & US is indirectly supporting and conspiring anti terror activities against Pakistan USING INDIA as their frontline ally in this dirty game .



India Must Realize this that if Both Pakistan and India engaged in a collateral nuclear war it would be the People of Indo-Pak who would suffer the most not the Zionists Living in America or Israel. Both countries are on the path of self destruction.

We all know that to what extent the Nuclear Proliferation Reached when SovietUnion Collapsed .I am sure if US intend to destroy Pakistan using its own rouge elements it will only see its enemies getting stronger as it did in the form of NorthKorea and Iran.

US is no longer our ally. Its intentions are clear that by suppporting the Indian consulates it will destabalize and weaken the Only Muslim Nuclear Power which is making them agitate so much that they cant even sleep . After the Indian consulates in Afghanistan cannot fuction on their own without the knowlage Of US. There must be linkage.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

So, no, nobody believes that you're under assault from other lands. Nor would anybody invest the effort to do so.

Probably among your circle they wont believe it but there many who believe us more than you guys Why
You guys lied abt the WMDs in Iraq . It was oil for which u went there.
And You guys have not been able to capture USAMA bin Ladin the mascot of your bloodthirsty conpiracy against the Muslims of the World.

The wepons with which the miscreants in tribal belt are fighting are far more superior than the PAK ARMY has. So ther is no question of their External Support and sympothy.

 

[jeypore]

General ZIA once said


India Must Realize this that if Both Pakistan and India engaged in a collateral nuclear war it would be the People of Indo-Pak who would suffer the most not the Zionists Living in America or Israel. Both countries are on the path of self destruction.

Speak for yourself, from my eyes I only see one country on the path of self destruction.

US is no longer our ally. Its intentions are clear that by suppporting the Indian consulates it will destabalize and weaken the Only Muslim Nuclear Power which is making them agitate so much that they cant even sleep . After the Indian consulates in Afghanistan cannot fuction on their own without the knowlage Of US. There must be linkage.

US is the only ally that is actually helping you, where is China, Turkey, or especially the middle east nations. Why are they not in the trenches fighting with you, with all the brotherly love they are showering Pakistan with.

 

[Solomon2]

General ZIA once said
I believe MOSSAD & US is indirectly supporting and conspiring anti terror activities against Pakistan USING INDIA as their frontline ally in this dirty game...India Must Realize this that if Both Pakistan and India engaged in a collateral nuclear war it would be the People of Indo-Pak who would suffer the most not the Zionists -

I think you've been reading too much Ausaf, you've got Zionist-on-the-brain. Kinda like water-on-the-knee...

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

I think you've been reading too much Ausaf, you've got Zionist-on-the-brain. Kinda like water-on-the-knee...

No i have not been reading Ausaf.

Its a perception which every Pakistani has these days. We dont trust US anymore. And for India its our old and traditional enemy which is conspiring Against Pakistan right from day1 .
And wat its doing in afghanistan will bring collateral damage to the reagion .Its a question of time now .

US is the only ally that is actually helping you, where is China, Turkey, or especially the middle east nations.

You have no idea that to which extent chinese have helped us through our bad times and they are still helping us.
Look why dont you understand That its a whole conpiracy to weaken Pakistan and then establish a stronghold in CentralAsia from where US can have some sort of influence over China. And in this game India and US have a mutual Understanding .

As for other countries They are all to some extent under the US influence .
Turkey wants to be the Part of EU. And in middle east US has firm grip over those countries .

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

In the diplomatic arena no body is friend of anybody. Countries share their interests on which Allighnces are formed .
Countrie and global powers are like beasts looking out for their interests only. No one helps nobody unless there is a reason.