Terra Incognita: Columbus, Islamic discoveries and perpetuating ignorance

[My-Analogous]

Latin America is the sleeping giant. Also strategic location. Good market too.

What Islam will do for that

 

[Krate M]

What Islam will do for that

No idea. Or why erdogan was saying that.

 

[The SC]

Muslim sailors used equipment to help them on their journeys. The astrolabe was used to read the position of the stars and planets. In this way, they could read their position on the sea in terms of latitude. These astrolabes were a great scientific achievement of the Muslims. In the fourteenth century the Muslims also used the compass which was first invented by the Chinese. This also helped them travel even without the sun or stars to guide them. And of course the Muslims made maps of the safest journeys. These maps were often kept secret from others by the ship captains who were competing for trade routes.

The dhow is a sailing vessel that is still used in the Indian Ocean today. It utilized the winds of the monsoons to go north in the summer and south in the winter. Dhows went up and down the coast of East Africa, and from the Red Sea to the "Spice Islands" of Indonesia, and to Southeast Asia. The dhow shown here is a small one and is still used along the coast. The Muslims built large "oceangoing dhows" that could carry a crew of twenty or more and a lot of cargo and supplies. The oceangoing dhow called the "baghlah" is no longer built. It was the traditional deep-sea dhow; it had a high cabin in the back, with five windows and a poop deck like European galleons (former large trading ship).


The Muslims were masters of the sea. They had maps, equipment and experience that were far beyond what was available in Europe.One of the most famous gegrapher is Al-Idrisi who made a globe or sphere of silver weighing 400 kilograms for the Christian King Roger II of Sicily. Some scholars regard him as the greatest geographer and mapmaker of the Middle Ages. He put together a geographical encyclopedia with many maps.

Furthermore, the Muslims controlled most of the trade routes from the Eastern Mediterranean to China, India and the Spice Islands of Southeast Asia. Because of these factors, European traders had to look for new ways of competing in trade. Moreover, Muslim geographers had proposed that the earth was round, and even estimated fairly accurately its size, and measured its longitude and latitude hundreds of years before. It is also even claimed that they had discovered America before Columbus. Christopher Columbus would have known about this from living among sailors in Spanish and Italian ports. Perhaps he even heard stories of earlier adventures across the Sea of Darkness.In one of his letters, Columbus named (Averroes) Ibn Roshd who helped him guess the existence of the new world.

In 1492, Christopher Columbus set sail on three small ships from Spain with a Muslim navigator (a person who has skills in getting from place to place), an Arab translator, maps, and equipment. His goal was to sail across the Atlantic and reach China and India. Of course he was mistaken about the size of the earth and the existence of the Americas to block his way. But his trip was the beginning of new ways for Europeans to look at the world.

Oceanography

By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40, 253.4km - less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.

1001 Inventions | 1001 Inventions

In fact Muslims were great scientists, navigators, sailors and traders, with much proof.
But it is not stated that they have discovered America before Columbus did. One thing is for sure, they knew the route and had the means to go there, ie.; The Ocean going ships, the Maps and the navigation instruments required, like the Astrolabe and the compass.

 

[KingMamba]

May be you are right, but what is the purpose to gain popularity in Latin America? what benefit Turkey will get from Latin America? i thing you mean Europe or North part of Africa

Growing economies and increase world influence of Turkey.

 

[My-Analogous]

Growing economies and increase world influence of Turkey.

What Islam play a game in Economics growth of Turkey in North American nations?

 

[Audio]

Zheng He probably would have but the Chinese isolationist policy prevented him from doing so, one just needs to look at the modern reconstruction of Chinese ships of the era compared to the Europeans ships that actually were used to realize how the world would have been so much different had the Chinese not burned all of their own ships.

What to say about this, idk, except the notion that those big Chinese ships were perhaps only meant to sail on the calm Yangtze and Zheng He made voyages with much smaller ships, search for replica in Nanjing which is ~60 meters long.

Also, what Columbus sailed with did not present the pinnacle of what can be achieved, those were only exploring boats, leased on a budget. I couldn't find anything else comparable except st.Michael ship, built roughly 20 years after Columbus. Size is comparable to the replica from Nanjing, ~ 60 meters length.

 

[INDIC]

What to say about this, idk, except the notion that those big Chinese ships were perhaps only meant to sail on the calm Yangtze and Zheng He made voyages with much smaller ships, search for replica in Nanjing which is ~60 meters long.

Also, what Columbus sailed with did not present the pinnacle of what can be achieved, those were only exploring boats, leased on a budget. I couldn't find anything else comparable except st.Michael ship, built roughly 20 years after Columbus. Size is comparable to the replica from Nanjing, ~ 60 meters length.

View attachment 154965

I read somewhere Vikings already landed in Newfoundland centuries before Columbus discovered, by a guy named Captain Eriksson.

 

[Audio]

I read somewhere Vikings already landed in Newfoundland centuries before Columbus discovered, by a guy named Captain Eriksson.

Ya, Eric the Red, but i don't see how him or Vikings have any connection to ship length discussion. I'm not even discussing the premise of this thread as it's ludicrous....

I especially liked @asad71 's reasoning of the Moorish navigator who knew the path. I mean if he knew, how come Muslims haven't been hauling gold from the Americas up until then. War's were expensive and they were always in one (for example, Spain squandered it's colonial loot in a good 100 years after obtaining it).....Some moral excuse about how they didn't need gold or we're too advanced to take it from the natives, just can't do, as Muslim slave trade is well documented.

Now, all that said, i do believe stories about links between Americas and at least Egypt. Thor Heyerdahl's voyage on a papyrus (i think) raft were already mentioned in this thread. And i also read his book in 1st year of high school, mandatory literature.

 

[KingMamba]

What Islam play a game in Economics growth of Turkey in North American nations?

The meaning would be to tell Latin Americans that it is ok for a Muslim country like Turkey to increase its influence in their countries because Muslims are as local as anybody else. It is to mitigate the foreign cultural invasion that some may feel.

 

[asad71]

Ya, Eric the Red, but i don't see how him or Vikings have any connection to ship length discussion. I'm not even discussing the premise of this thread as it's ludicrous....

I especially liked @asad71 's reasoning of the Moorish navigator who knew the path. I mean if he knew, how come Muslims haven't been hauling gold from the Americas up until then. War's were expensive and they were always in one (for example, Spain squandered it's colonial loot in a good 100 years after obtaining it).....Some moral excuse about how they didn't need gold or we're too advanced to take it from the natives, just can't do, as Muslim slave trade is well documented.

Now, all that said, i do believe stories about links between Americas and at least Egypt. Thor Heyerdahl's voyage on a papyrus (i think) raft were already mentioned in this thread. And i also read his book in 1st year of high school, mandatory literature.

Much research is required to unravel the truth hidden among lies and disinfo in the chronicles/history that have so far been our only source to these times. Eduard Said has opened up the pandora box maintained mainly by the Christian Church.

 

[Khalid Newazi]

Off course bro

Followers must be blamed who blindly obey the leaders.

Mulllah / Brahmin / priest are the symbols of orthodoxy, religious abuse. that's all.

We must not put all the blame on them and then go back to sleep.

Does this apply with blind followers of secular democracy who are willing to give away their culture and livelihood for a foreign one?

 

[OrionHunter]

Whenever you mix religion and science, only religion happens.

or in other words "$hit happens".

It is huge $tupidity to claim Islam this and Islam that.

Muslims this or Muslims that. It is all cheap talk.

Peace

But guys like Zarvan think otherwise!! He's soon gonna surface here with all guns blazing!

Watch out. You may need to take cover!!

 

[FaujHistorian]

But guys like Zarvan think otherwise!! He's soon gonna surface here with all guns blazing!

Watch out. You may need to take cover!!

Well it is up to you to follow the likes of Zarvan

or reject him.

It is all up to you

It is all up to us.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Does this apply with blind followers of secular democracy who are willing to give away their culture and livelihood for a foreign one?

No one can "give away" their culture

Bhai you talk like as if you are giving away culture as dowry in your girl's wedding.

Just remember,

New cultures are adopted and old ones die.

Babylonian culture survived as long as it could. Then it went away getting replaced by superior or more suitable culture.

A BDeshi must realiize that yours is a Bengali culture, that is way way different from Saudi culture or Irani culture.

Under what circumstances you will quit your culture, under what conditions you will not eat fish and rice? sing bengali songs, dance to Bengali music, wear bengali clothing?

Under what conditions?

So when you talk about "giving away" as dowry, some weird thing called "livelihood and culture" you my bro do not make sense at all.

none whatsoever.