Tenth Crusade?

[MilSpec]

The OP lays out a thesis and there was calm discussion about the extent to which religion plays a role in the West's relationship with the Muslim world.

Given the fact that Israelis are the first to invoke religion in the conflict, the EU opposition to Turkey is openly due to religion, and the evangelicals/AIPAC are widely acknowledged to exert tremendous influence in the US, the question is a legitimate one.

interesting take on history, so are the arab neighbors are hell bent on destroying israel over "political discourse"?

or are the sucide bombers attacking train stations and nightclubs motivated by "nuclear physics"?

entire conflict of so called representatives of islamic world is based on religious foundations, and still they play the victim.

 

[Developereo]

interesting take on history, so are the arab neighbors are hell bent on destroying israel over "political discourse"?

or are the sucide bombers attacking train stations and nightclubs motivated by "nuclear physics"?

entire conflict of so called representatives of islamic world is based on religious foundations, and still they play the victim.

What I meant is that the Israelis claim to be a secular democracy, but invoke their "Jewish" character when any criticism is leveled, even if it comes from Christians, atheists, anyone. This way they can hide behind the anti-semitism shield, and indirectly bank on Holocaust sympathy.

 

[kalu_miah]

This website either is not run by Pakistani's or it is run only to generate web hits and not to uphold the interest of Pakistan. That has been my observation so far. Nothing else can explain this free run of Indian trolls in this "Pakistani defense site".

 

[anonymus]

What I meant is that the Israelis label all criticism as anti-Semitism, even if it comes from Christians, atheists, anyone.

interesting take on history, so are the arab neighbors are hell bent on destroying israel over "political discourse"?

or are the sucide bombers attacking train stations and nightclubs motivated by "nuclear physics"?

entire conflict of so called representatives of islamic world is based on religious foundations, and still they play the victim.

It is common for group of people ( countries,terrorists etc) to try to gain maximum amount of support they can.Religion due to its inherent characteristic of entrenched stereotypes and in-group characteristic of comes as a handy tool for that.

Can't fault people on that account.

A case in point may be that of Laden.He had visceral hatred for US partly originating from his religious orientation.Now if he had gone on a FK Us campaign how many followers he would have scraped through.So he simply defined that conflict as US vs Islam.

Every country do that.During colonial era Britain promoted piracy in Caribbean sea against spanish because they blocked their access to colonies.They also framed that conflict in terms of Catholic vs protestants.

This website either is not run by Pakistani's or it is run only to generate web hits and not to uphold the interest of Pakistan. That has been my observation so far. Nothing else can explain this free run of Indian trolls in this "Pakistani defense site".

Don't troll yourself and nobody will troll you.

 

[Zabaniyah]

interesting take on history, so are the arab neighbors are hell bent on destroying israel over "political discourse"?

or are the sucide bombers attacking train stations and nightclubs motivated by "nuclear physics"?

entire conflict of so called representatives of islamic world is based on religious foundations, and still they play the victim.

As far as the Arab-Israeli conflict is concerned, it is more of an issue of land ownership than religion. But yes, the issue is behind religious lines. If you are a Palestinian, and you sell your land to a Jew, you'll be marked for death.

I don't think the Arabs are concerned over the issue in a true sense. They think too much about themselves. The Palestinian refugees who had been refugees for all the decades are basically second or third class residents in the Arab countries they reside in. Ironically, the ones living in Western countries do pretty well.

It's not like the Arabs are short on resources to take care of them, or grant them citizenship. They are using the refugee issue for political means, and not the real problem at hand.

Zionism is basically a political ideology that sets the land of Israel as the 'Holy Land' for Jews. Yes, it does advocate for political unity among Jews (which the Muslims don't have). Jews were politically extremely weak for starters.

Yes, Israel as we know today has broken international law before and got plenty of free tickets from you know who in order to avoid condemnation at the UN. But as far as international image goes, it doesn't really help. This is why I never recommend the use of extreme force against people.

It'd be moronic to have one guy using a water bottle as a weapon while another guy is armed with a bazooka.

 

[MilSpec]

That was not an answer to my questions. Please reveal more about your background. What genuine concerns? Hindu's concern about living under Khilafa? The idea itself is a joke, while Hindu Brahminic supremacists think of wiping out Muslims and Islam from the face of the earth, exactly because of this fantastic imaginary notion that Muslims are hell bent on a world conquest. We don't need to give people more ammunition for their fantasy and peddling of Islamophobic propaganda, by the Zionists and their fellow traveler Hindu nationalists.

you had me at hello!!!!

 

[MilSpec]

As far as the Arab-Israeli conflict is concerned, it is more of an issue of land ownership than religion. But yes, the issue is behind religious lines. If you are a Palestinian, and you sell your land to a Jew, you'll be marked for death.

I don't think the Arabs are concerned over the issue in a true sense. They think too much about themselves. The Palestinian refugees who had been refugees for all the decades are basically second or third class residents in the Arab countries they reside in. Ironically, the ones living in Western countries do pretty well.

It's not like the Arabs are short on resources to take care of them, or grant them citizenship. They are using the refugee issue for political means, and not the real problem at hand.

Zionism is basically a political ideology that sets the land of Israel as the 'Holy Land' for Jews. Yes, it does advocate for political unity among Jews (which the Muslims don't have). Jews were politically extremely weak for starters.

Yes, Israel as we know today has broken international law before and got plenty of free tickets from you know who in order to avoid condemnation at the UN. But as far as international image goes, it doesn't really help. This is why I never recommend the use of extreme force against people.

It'd be moronic to have one guy using a water bottle as a weapon while another guy is armed with a bazooka.

I agree
so its not really jew out to drink the last drop of blood from every muslim in the land as potrayed...

now for the theory of the rest of the world againt islam as promoted by various members here, how is that countries with enormous muslim populations of Indonesia, bangladesh, india , malaysia are never targeted by crusaders, after all its islam against the world, isn't it?



Or is it the land of demented dictators of the sitting on enormous wealth living in castles of gold who have ensured that their countrymen are not capable of producing even a match stick on their own finally being politically freed by the so called crusaders

 

[Zabaniyah]

I agree
so its not really jew out to drink the last drop of blood from every muslim in the land as potrayed...

now for the theory of the rest of the world againt islam as promoted by various members here, how is that countries with enormous muslim populations of Indonesia, bangladesh, india , malaysia are never targeted by crusaders, after all its islam against the world, isn't it?

Or is it the land of demented dictators of the sitting on enormous wealth living in castles of gold who have ensured that their countrymen are not capable of producing even a match stick on their own finally being politically freed by the so called crusaders

Last time I checked, it was the Western Colonialists who colonized parts of Asia. Though from the same culture, they are not Crusaders Big difference!

The Arabs could have (and still do) more to ensure stability in the Middle East. But I doubt if that's ever going to happen for a long time since they have no unity.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Last time I checked, it was the Western Colonialists who colonized parts of Asia. Though from the same culture, they are not Crusaders Big difference!

The Arabs could have (and still do) more to ensure stability in the Middle East. But I doubt if that's ever going to happen for a long time since they have no unity.

Asia - let me see... Persians colonised, Arabs colonised, Mongols colonised, Manchus colonised, Japanese colonised, Turks colonised... Afghans colonised... was some of it in the name of religion too - YES!

Trust me if an Indian Christian tells me how Charles Cornwallis is his hero and saviour and how India needs another inquisition and conquest I'll be equally aghast... with amusement of course.

 

[Vinod2070]

Some trolls here are incapable of making a single post without referring to "Indian Hindus".

The bring Hindus or Hindutwa into every discussion even if it related to the topic or not. Most of the time it is unrelated but just becuase 4-5 Indians are on the thread, they start demonstrating their "Indiaphobia" and "Hinduphobia".

Of course, it is driven by their need to be more loyal than the king.

This strange sense of victim-hood in complete disregard to facts is only amusing to us.

The likes of Kalu miah are never able to reply rationally to any facts raised (they are incapable and tongue tied when shown facts). They can only chant "Islamophobia" when countered.

He made that strange comment on Hindus plotting to destroy Islam. When countered, he ran making "Islamophobe" noises. That is the depth these people have.

And they expect to be taken seriously!

Let me tell you, it doesn't work. You may think your hatred is genuine and others would not reciprocate it, you may think you have some special entitlements and others should simply act like the dhimmis they are.

It doesn't work that way.

It may be too galling for you but if you want respect for your religion and prophet, you need to respect other religions.

As that is probably too much to ask from you, the best case is you don't bring "Indian Hindus" in every thread and every post and the discussion can be on merit on the thread topic.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Asia - let me see... Persians colonised, Arabs colonised, Mongols colonised, Manchus colonised, Japanese colonised, Turks colonised... Afghans colonised... was some of it in the name of religion too - YES!

Um...yeah. But then that wasn't what I was talking about.

Trust me if an Indian Christian tells me how Charles Cornwallis is his hero and saviour and how India needs another inquisition and conquest I'll be equally aghast... with amusement of course.

Charles Cornwallis was not a Crusader. But it is okay to be amused regardless of what kind of Indian is saying it

I can see how religion and caste go so deep in India.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Charles Cornwallis was not a Crusader.

Any kind of imperialism and colonisation is bad. Free people agree and don't glorify it.

I can see how religion and caste go so deep in India.

Caste caste caste? Oh you want to talk about hinduism again

 

[Zabaniyah]

Any kind of imperialism and colonisation is bad. Free people agree and don't glorify.

I generally do not justify any form of imperialism or jingoism. They are stupid and childish in my opinion.

Back in the old days, it was easy to randomly invade this and that. Even entire kingdoms and cultures were literally obliterated. Monarchs and warlords and such were not uncommon. People just had to bow to their will.

Now? Well, the world has gone far. It's impossible these days to mobilize a mass invasion and destroy a country. I guess modern technology and nukes are blessing.

But then, no king or 'superpower' rules forever.

Caste caste caste? Oh you want to talk about hinduism again

Never really talked about Hinduism here but the broad society at large that include all religions in India.

Just saying seeing from responses of Indian members here and general observations. I can safely assume that they do indeed go deep even given that the State of India is secular.

 

[The SC]

Yes, I know. I am not waiting with bated breath though.

I have seen similar claims elsewhere: "I can tear it all apart but I won't".

The histories are written by Muslims themselves in most cases.



May be. May be we will see many people reverting back to their ancient great religions. Starting with Iranians?

Let's see. May be some of it will happen in our lives.

There is no escape from Islam, since it is the oldest and most recent religion of all times (concerning monotheism).

Some trolls here are incapable of making a single post without referring to "Indian Hindus".

The bring Hindus or Hindutwa into every discussion even if it related to the topic or not. Most of the time it is unrelated but just becuase 4-5 Indians are on the thread, they start demonstrating their "Indiaphobia" and "Hinduphobia".

Of course, it is driven by their need to be more loyal than the king.

This strange sense of victim-hood in complete disregard to facts is only amusing to us.

The likes of Kalu miah are never able to reply rationally to any facts raised (they are incapable and tongue tied when shown facts). They can only chant "Islamophobia" when countered.

He made that strange comment on Hindus plotting to destroy Islam. When countered, he ran making "Islamophobe" noises. That is the depth these people have.

And they expect to be taken seriously!

Let me tell you, it doesn't work. You may think your hatred is genuine and others would not reciprocate it, you may think you have some special entitlements and others should simply act like the dhimmis they are.

It doesn't work that way.

It may be too galling for you but if you want respect for your religion and prophet, you need to respect other religions.

As that is probably too much to ask from you, the best case is you don't bring "Indian Hindus" in every thread and every post and the discussion can be on merit on the thread topic.

You are lying on every fact concerning Islam and dare to treat everyone who "dares" to talk about Hinduism and its pagan practices as a troll!

I agree
so its not really jew out to drink the last drop of blood from every muslim in the land as potrayed...

now for the theory of the rest of the world againt islam as promoted by various members here, how is that countries with enormous muslim populations of Indonesia, bangladesh, india , malaysia are never targeted by crusaders, after all its islam against the world, isn't it?



Or is it the land of demented dictators of the sitting on enormous wealth living in castles of gold who have ensured that their countrymen are not capable of producing even a match stick on their own finally being politically freed by the so called crusaders

The Jungle prevented them! Otherwise...

 

[SherAli]

The crusades are the longest and most insane wars in history

going on now for almost 1000 years, since 1096