Tejas not to be battle ready before 2015.

[OrionHunter]

This is becoming a bl00dy joke! Scrap this crap! They should concentrate on the AMCA/FGFA instead. We've had enough of this nonsense, because come 2015, another dispatch will say - 'Tejas to be fully ops by 2020 and enter squadron service by 2022'!

WTF?

 

[soumya1989]

These reporters are pissed off... My friend is a PRO in HAL he says that these jerks are not being given any news bytes these days so they are pissed off and print stories like this.... they want HAL to react to this kind of news by giving a press release ... but every time they are left licking their hurt egos.

Well said man. These TOIlet news agencies never grow up.

 

[IndianArmy]

This is becoming a bl00dy joke! Scrap this crap! They should concentrate on the AMCA/FGFA instead.

Do you seriously believe without developing a 4th gen aircraft we could move towards a bigger platform, its would again take 2 "Tejas" years to complete the bigger platform.

Dont delude yourself by what the media and a bunch of haters have to say. No job is easy and this definitely is not an exception. You must be proud that you had people who chose to remain in the country with peanuts as salary while their friends chose a lavish lifestyle abroad.

Today the world agrees to your demands by these very few visionaries, who crafted the term "reverse brain drain" in India, by creating equal opportunities for budding graduates and scientists.

LCA might not have flourished to the pace it was expected, but it sure created infrastructure and Interest in Aviation in India.

You! My Fellow Taxpayer! must not support the hard work and commitment shown by a few gentlemen go in vain.

 

[littleboy]

Tejas is not just required to be a point defense fighter or a research project. We need tejas for increasing no. of squadrons of our air force. It would be building block for our future aerospace industry. Rome was not built in a day.Even US is having problem with F-35.
Also remember we do not have any domestic aircraft industry. we are building it from scratch .only 4-5 countries in the world can produce their own 4th generation fighter.

 

[OrionHunter]

Rome was not built in a day. Also remember we do not have any domestic aircraft industry. we are building it from scratch .only 4-5 countries in the world can produce their own 4th generation fighter.

Building it from scratch? Please don't give me this bull. For your info, the Tejas is the second supersonic fighter developed indigenously by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited after the HAL Marut.

The Marut was designed by the well-known German aircraft designer Kurt Tank and Indian engineers from HAL. It was India's first jet aircraft, first flying on 17 June 1961. A total of 147 aircraft were built, including 18 two-seat trainers.

With more than five decades of experience behind them, what has HAL achieved so far? How much more time does one need to understand the theory of flight dynamics? What have they learnt from past experience? What happened to all that expertise building a supersonic fighter 52 years ago? Sweet fu@k all!! Period!

 

[sms]

Building it from scratch? Please don't give me this bull. For your info, the Tejas is the second supersonic fighter developed indigenously by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited after the HAL Marut.

The Marut was designed by the well-known German aircraft designer Kurt Tank and Indian engineers from HAL. It was India's first jet aircraft, first flying on 17 June 1961. A total of 147 aircraft were built, including 18 two-seat trainers.

With more than five decades of experience behind them, what has HAL achieved so far? How much more time does one need to understand the theory of flight dynamics? What have they learnt from past experience? What happened to all that expertise building a supersonic fighter 52 years ago? Sweet fu@k all!! Period!

Wow you are on fire today. Isn't a/c of your new car working. Chill!!

Do you know that NASA #1 space agency is struggling to get a reusable space capsule and have none today. In fact they had build first in 50s and have experience for last 60 yrs

Also do you know Canada build first supersonic fighter in last 50 or early sixties. Going by your logic they have lot of exp. can they build one now?

We admit that Tejas is not a best example of project management any one (read no one) wants to emulate. But its no where near to what we call lost cause.

 

[ptltejas]

How much in dollars.. By the way development costs...

I think initial developing is always of high costing. the learnings of developing of LCA and checking and making tools helps a lot, and there will be useful forever now. so now we do not have to cost for those items. when we see the LCA it is require to see it as useful for different purposes. It may have great capabilities else we do not enter into it. except few outcomes its good. If mark-1 is not as per the need just go on Mark-2 but the design and plane is proven now. I dont think to need scrape the programme. mostly the expert can only say something about it.

 

[thestringshredder]

If not 2015,I am definitely it will be ready by the end of all humankind.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Something Ive been saying here for a long time.

But if that were true then surely the Jf-17 is just as outdated and irrelevant these days?

 

[EAK]

Wonder if LCA taking that long...what they will do with AMCA...

 

[sancho]

Something Ive been saying here for a long time.

But it's not possible, because AMCA is not just a twin engine 4th gen fighter, which would had made a re-design and re-consideration of the project easier and possible in a useful timeframe, but it's a NG fighter. Apart of the sheer amount of parts that needs to be developed completely new, in most fields the required knowledge is not existent today and was meant to be available through further LCA upgrades only. Not to mention that the 188 LCAs on order, are meant to be available by 2022, a timeframe where not even the first AMCA squadron should be available, which then again means IAF and IN must procure more Rafales and Mig 29Ks, which I wouldn't mind at all but is expensive and since too many of my countrymen just like the MoD focuses too much on indigenisation for pride reasons, cancelling LCA is not very likely, or useful.
However the main point of the whole project is not to add teeth to IAF, but to set up a basic aero industry in India and that's why it is so important to get LCA done.

 

[IND151]

for 25k crores we could have bought 100+ Griffins which is 100 times better than tejas...

The Tejas programme resulted in infrastructure which was absent earlier and the experience we gained on Tejas program is immensely valuable

 

[sancho]

It is not that Tejas will get obsolete, but the idea of Light weight aircraft specially for Indian Doctrine.

That actually can't be obsolete, since you always need fighters for simple interception or air policing roles. Here LCA will offer a cost-effective (to operate) alternative to all the high end fighters IAF will have. So it will remain useful, the question is only, when they will be available and if by that time they still can procure a useful number of LCAs.

 

[OrionHunter]

Do you know that NASA #1 space agency is struggling to get a reusable space capsule and have none today. In fact they had build first in 50s and have experience for last 60 yrs.

Nope! They're not 'struggling' as you say. They just thought it wise to stop government funding of the horrendously expensive shuttle program that is more than 30 years old having outdated technology. They have roped in private Commercial entities instead with the Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) program that began in 2006 with the purpose of creating commercially operated unmanned cargo vehicles to service the ISS. These commercial companies are well on their way to providing cargo and crew flights to the ISS, allowing NASA to focus its attention on the next steps into our solar system, which is manned flights to Mars and beyond.

The first of these vehicles, SpaceX's Dragon, became operational in 2012, and the second, Orbital Sciences' Cygnus, is expected to do so in 2013. So, it is not that they are not capable anymore of producing next gen space shuttles, but the issue was of economics not lack of technology that made them shelve this government funded Space Transportation System (STS)..

Also do you know Canada build first supersonic fighter in last 50 or early sixties. Going by your logic they have lot of exp. can they build one now?

You bet they can! But are you aware that they are part of the design/development of the F-35, across a range of aerospace sub-sectors, including airframe, propulsion, tooling, software and mission systems? Additionally, there is no requirement for Canada to independently try to develop a next, or after next generation fighter as the US has the majority of the responsibility for the air defense of North America, and Canada, both tactically and strategically.The Canadian Government and RCAF will continue to purchase US designed and built fighter aircraft as it is cheaper and makes operational sense. Canada simply can not afford to build a modern jet fighter in the low numbers needed by the RCAF.

We admit that Tejas is not a best example of project management any one (read no one) wants to emulate. But its no where near to what we call lost cause.

I never said it was a 'lost cause'. I meant it was an inordinately 'delayed cause'! Which means by the time it enters operational service, it would be antique!

 

[janon]

Now, on topic, at what the non trollers have been saying. I'm just amazed why common sense is going for a toss here. The number of people who are saying that it will be obsolete! What on earth are you all talking about? Please check out how many fighters the IAF needs, and how many we will get in the next ten years (other than LCA), and how many will retire. If you do that simple calculation, you would be urging HAL to set up two production lines instead of one.

We need a bare minimum of 750 fighters (39.5 squadrons). Other than 272 MKIs and 189 rafales, what else? And those 189 rafales won't be here until 2022. We have about 260+ fighters that need to be replaced before 2020. Which aircrafts will provide numbers?

Can we afford 400+ Rafales or MKIs? Even if we shell out the money, would we want such expensive assets doing CAP and point interception for the bulk of their useful lives? Make no mistake, any air force the size of India's will need hundreds of light fighters. There is n other way.

AMCA does not even exist as a non flyable prototype. So forget that bogey of "moving on to AMCA". That plane will NOT arrive in the next 15 years in operational service. Any country would take that long to design, test and put a 5th gen aircraft in production. USA would, Russia would, China would. India would too. At least.

Both our adversaries and most of the world will be flying LCA class aircrafts for the next few decades. Only small air forces like Britain's or France' can afford to have the entire force comprised of Rafales or EFs. Any country that is not as rich as USA, and needs a very large number of squadrons, will fly a lot of light fighters. China does, India does. And will.

And by the way, it is quite ironic that the IAF will fly mig 21s and mig 27s upto 2018 or so, and then claim that LCA may not be advanced enough for tomorrow's LOW END needs. While LCA is in service, the IAF, PLAAF and PAF will all be flying fighters that are less sophisticated than it.

It's about numbers. We want 39-42 squadrons, right? Then we need 180+ LCAs. Can't afford to double the number of rafales or MKIs. Or FGFAs. Most light duties will have to be born by a light fighter. We are not the USA, our defence budget is a fraction of a percent of theirs.