Tejas induction only by mid-2014

[punisher]

really? I've heard you folks say it is a copy of Mig-21, IAR-95, F-16 and now Mig-33. Must be one hell of a hybrid, eh?

So in what way is it a copy?
Mig-33

JF-17

Nose? Nose on the mig-33 is smaller and angled down, whereas the JF-17s is not angled, longer and seems larger in relation to the canopy.
Wings? Both have conventional wing design, whereas the Mig-33's wings are smaller, and swept back.
Air intakes? Completely DIFFERENT!
the engine outlet on the JF-17 is extended and the spine in relation to the sings and canopy are different on either plane.
The JF-17 may have been influenced by it, but the airframe or the aircraft overall is in no way shape or form, copied.

really


Light Fighter FC-1 (Fighter China-1)

The development of this fighter, the improved copy of Soviet MIG-33 (which R&D was terminated due to absence of money at the beginning of 1990s), started at Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corp., in 1994-95.

More exactly, MIG-33 designers resumed this terminated project in Moscow under supervision of experts from Chengdu city and with financing from PLA. In 1995, Chengdu Corp. purchased 100 units advanced RD-93 jet engines, for the future FC-1, at Klimov Aircraft Corp. in St. Petersburg.

In 1997-98, Pakistani Air Forces joined this project; Pakistan provided significant part of R&D financing and is obliged to purchase one half of the future FC-1 production. Despite all the efforts, the project dealt with a lot of problems, and only at the beginning of 2001 did it enter the last stage.

In mid-June 2002, it became known, from Beijing and Taibei sources, that the FC-1 fighter – to be used by PLA Air Force in the Taiwan Strait and South China Sea as well as by the Pakistani air force along the border with India – will enter serial production in 2003.

It was emphasized that Pakistan, and probably some other developing countries, would pay $25 million for each FC-1, characterized by high combat capacities at low altitude and combat range (with the return to the same airdrome after mission accomplished) of 1,500 km.

Finally, on Sept. 14-19, Xinhua agency, Renmin Ribao and other leading Beijing papers published a series of messages regarding "final success" of FC-1 project (briefly):


Conclusions

In 1982-86, the author worked as a senior engineer at Moscow Machine-Building Salute Plant. The author, with great interest, surveyed a very detailed report from this plant, published in mid-September, in Moscow-based Nezavismoye Voyennoye Obozreniye (Independent Military Survey) weekly paper. Shortly:

Situation at Salute Plant, extremely bad in 1990s, dramatically improved in 2000-2002. This took place due to serial production and export of Liulka-Saturn AL-31FN turbofan engine. Number of Salute employees increased, by mid-2002, up to 12,000, and they are getting an average salary of $400 a month! (Indeed, a handsome salary for Moscow and a fantastic one for any other region of Russia.)

---------- Post added at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------

Chinese Airshow a Hit With the Military

 

[RockyX]

First of all Tejas MKI 1 is a single engine fighter jets. Our premier and most important offensive fighter jets will be always 2 Engine jets which can carry high payloads, better radar and can travel 5,000 KM+ without refuelling like Su 30 MKI, Mirage M2k, MIG29 SMT/UPG, MMRCA, PAK-FA due to geography and IAF strategy.

Tejas won't make any difference as of now. May be Tejas MK2 by 2016-17 will be important but then in 2017, We will be inducting Super MKI, PAK FA and more MMRCA too. Even F-35 also possible for Navy.

Tejas is just experience for AMCA. We will get Technology of Rafale or Typhoon. Hopefully, our AMCA will be effective. But in any case, we won't be dependent on Tejas otherwise we won't be spending 20 Bn $ for MMRCA.

 

[Jungibaaz]

really

Before I begin, anything against the points I say...?
or just an article which i can tell you have not read through and understood.

Light Fighter FC-1 (Fighter China-1)

The development of this fighter, the improved copy of Soviet MIG-33 (which R&D was terminated due to absence of money at the beginning of 1990s), started at Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corp., in 1994-95.

Evidence of this border-hop? or pure 'take my word for it'?
Mig-33 scrapped, sure again.... the two airframes look nothing alike.

More exactly, MIG-33 designers resumed this terminated project in Moscow under supervision of experts from Chengdu city and with financing from PLA. In 1995, Chengdu Corp. purchased 100 units advanced RD-93 jet engines, for the future FC-1, at Klimov Aircraft Corp. in St. Petersburg.

Does this have anything to do with Mig-33 and the FC-1.
You must put two and two together here.... Chinese needed an engine and needed a lot of them, both of which they couldn't do without spending years and billions on R&D. they purchase !00 RD-93s, because at the time, Chinese aircraft industry was not seen as a threat/competitor and as you've stated, they were keen to sell and make some money.

In 1997-98, Pakistani Air Forces joined this project; Pakistan provided significant part of R&D financing and is obliged to purchase one half of the future FC-1 production. Despite all the efforts, the project dealt with a lot of problems, and only at the beginning of 2001 did it enter the last stage.

Again, what does this have to with proving that the FC-1 is a copied Mig-33.
Pakistan joined the project after it became apparent that western markets were out of reach. Is this telling me something I don't already know?

In mid-June 2002, it became known, from Beijing and Taibei sources, that the FC-1 fighter – to be used by PLA Air Force in the Taiwan Strait and South China Sea as well as by the Pakistani air force along the border with India – will enter serial production in 2003.

It was emphasized that Pakistan, and probably some other developing countries, would pay $25 million for each FC-1, characterized by high combat capacities at low altitude and combat range (with the return to the same airdrome after mission accomplished) of 1,500 km.

Finally, on Sept. 14-19, Xinhua agency, Renmin Ribao and other leading Beijing papers published a series of messages regarding "final success" of FC-1 project (briefly):

Live-size model of jointly developed by China and Pakistan FC-1 fighter will be represented, together with J-10 fighter and other most significant achievements of Chinese aircraft and space industry, at Zhuhai Airshow 2002.

On Sept. 16, FC-1 fighter officially entered production at Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corp., thus becoming a "gift" to CPC 16th Congress. It is a real fighter of the new (fourth) generation eligible for PLAAF service and for export. As an all-weather, multi-use light fighter, it is equipped with advanced electronic system and could launch medium-range missile and carry out air-to-air, air-to-ground and anti-ship attacks.

FC-1 can carry up to six missiles including such air-to-air short-range and mid-range missiles as Chinese-made PL-5C, PL-9 and Russian-made R-27P. FC-1 has the length of 14 m, height of 5.1 m, wingspan of 9 m; it has full takeoff weight of 12,700 kg including 3,800-kg weapon load, maximal ceiling of 16,500 m, maximal speed 1.6 Mach (2,000 km per hour).

Conclusions

In 1982-86, the author worked as a senior engineer at Moscow Machine-Building Salute Plant. The author, with great interest, surveyed a very detailed report from this plant, published in mid-September, in Moscow-based Nezavismoye Voyennoye Obozreniye (Independent Military Survey) weekly paper. Shortly:

Situation at Salute Plant, extremely bad in 1990s, dramatically improved in 2000-2002. This took place due to serial production and export of Liulka-Saturn AL-31FN turbofan engine. Number of Salute employees increased, by mid-2002, up to 12,000, and they are getting an average salary of $400 a month! (Indeed, a handsome salary for Moscow and a fantastic one for any other region of Russia.)

---------- Post added at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------

Chinese Airshow a Hit With the Military

WOW..... you wasted my bloody time reading through commentary of the FC-1 project.

Would you be so kind as to read through before posting BS?
Still no scrap of evidence to suggest anything, and no word from you on the points I've made....

I suggest you quit while you still have whatever is left of your credibility.

 

[punisher]

Before I begin, anything against the points I say...?
or just an article which i can tell you have not read through and understood.



Evidence of this border-hop? or pure 'take my word for it'?
Mig-33 scrapped, sure again.... the two airframes look nothing alike.



Does this have anything to do with Mig-33 and the FC-1.
You must put two and two together here.... Chinese needed an engine and needed a lot of them, both of which they couldn't do without spending years and billions on R&D. they purchase !00 RD-93s, because at the time, Chinese aircraft industry was not seen as a threat/competitor and as you've stated, they were keen to sell and make some money.



Again, what does this have to with proving that the FC-1 is a copied Mig-33.
Pakistan joined the project after it became apparent that western markets were out of reach. Is this telling me something I don't already know?



WOW..... you wasted my bloody time reading through commentary of the FC-1 project.

Would you be so kind as to read through before posting BS?
Still no scrap of evidence to suggest anything, and no word from you on the points I've made....

I suggest you quit while you still have whatever is left of your credibility.

I can see BS talk from you. the article doesn't made in 2011. and many more sources are there if you want. after all Chinese will maintain maximum secrecy ..... i Don't like to here much crap talk.

 

[ziaulislam]

tejas is a very good aircraft. one paper it is an excellent replacement for mig21, at par with the thunder...but.........

how would indian corrupt defense bureaucrats get kick backs in local plane, so for no reason a 20 billion dollar tender of MRCA was brought in .....

 

[Jungibaaz]

I can see BS talk from you. the article doesn't made in 2011. and many more sources are there if you want. after all Chinese will maintain maximum secrecy ..... i Don't like to here much crap talk.

WTF? where is your argument lad???
an article with an accusation and no fact and argument to back it up?

All you've posted is an article which commentates the FC-1 project. Please if you can find any article with evidence or any sort of credible argument, it would be better then posting the BS you've posted.

 

[punisher]

i neva have a intention to discuss about JF-17, but my fellow Pakistani's keep talking non-sense about Tejas. If you keep on topic, no need to comment on JF-17.

 

[Jungibaaz]

i neva have a intention to discuss about JF-17, but my fellow Pakistani's keep talking non-sense about Tejas. If you keep on topic, no need to comment on JF-17.

Ah.... I see someone abandoned their argument.
Good for you.

Now I wasn't the one to say anything against Tejas, If you have a problem with it, just ignore it, or report it. Attacking JFT will only get you backlash from me.

 

[punisher]

WTF? where is your argument lad???
an article with an accusation and no fact and argument to back it up?

All you've posted is an article which commentates the FC-1 project. Please if you can find any article with evidence or any sort of credible argument, it would be better then posting the BS you've posted.

it is called source. you suppose believe about that kinda sources against India.

MiG-33 FULCRUM

---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------

Ah.... I see someone abandoned their argument.
Good for you.

Now I wasn't the one to say anything against Tejas, If you have a problem with it, just ignore it, or report it. Attacking JFT will only get you backlash from me.

i did many times. after all this is Pakistani defence forum so they are free to talk any thing against India.

 

[Jungibaaz]

it is called source. you suppose believe about that kinda sources against India.

MiG-33 FULCRUM

---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------



i did many times. after all this is Pakistani defence forum so they are free to talk any thing against India.

Read through It lad..... READ BEFORE POSTING BLINDLY....!

here... I'll quote a little bit of it for you....

''However, the FC-1 is not a direct derivative of the Product 33 design, and while the wings may reflect Soviet aerodynamic data, the fuselage and air inlets reprsent an entirely rather different configuration.''

 

[punisher]

Read through It lad..... READ BEFORE POSTING BLINDLY....!

here... I'll quote a little bit of it for you....

''However, the FC-1 is not a direct derivative of the Product 33 design, and while the wings may reflect Soviet aerodynamic data, the fuselage and air inlets reprsent an entirely rather different configuration.''

ufff then you didn't considered source that i provided you previously. hmmmm

 

[lemurian]

23 pages of this crap. And for what? If you debate on merits, Tejas is a Mig-21++ fighter meant for 1990's rather than 2010's. JF-17, a fighter not deemed good enough for China's own air force. Revel in mediocrity.

For India, Tejas is an experience, a showcase pointer to the future. For Pakistan JF-17 represents freedom from mind-numbing American perfidy.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

23 pages of this crap. And for what? If you debate on merits, Tejas is a Mig-21++ fighter meant for 1990's rather than 2010's. JF-17, a fighter not deemed good enough for China's own air force. Revel in mediocrity.

For India, Tejas is an experience, a showcase pointer to the future. For Pakistan JF-17 represents freedom from mind-numbing American perfidy.

Your post is also full of it...


LCA is what JFT is to Pakistan...

The reality is tht JFT is now a evolving reality... while LCA is still under development...

Both are/were to replace J-7/mig-21s..mig23,27s,jags,mirages n A5s.... n a step towards self reliance.

Anyways... Best of luck to india with tejas & PAC (with Blk-II,III & sales)!

 

[lemurian]

Your post is also full of it...


LCA is what JFT is to Pakistan...

The reality is tht JFT is now a evolving reality... while LCA is still under development...

Both are/were to replace J-7/mig-21s..mig23,27s,jags,mirages n A5s.... n a step towards self reliance.

Anyways... Best of luck to india with tejas & PAC (with Blk-II,III & sales)!

Wrong- LCA is geared for FOC. And thank you for your good wishes or at least your intentions.

 

[faithfulguy]

First of all Tejas MKI 1 is a single engine fighter jets. Our premier and most important offensive fighter jets will be always 2 Engine jets which can carry high payloads, better radar and can travel 5,000 KM+ without refuelling like Su 30 MKI, Mirage M2k, MIG29 SMT/UPG, MMRCA, PAK-FA due to geography and IAF strategy.

Tejas won't make any difference as of now. May be Tejas MK2 by 2016-17 will be important but then in 2017, We will be inducting Super MKI, PAK FA and more MMRCA too. Even F-35 also possible for Navy.

Tejas is just experience for AMCA. We will get Technology of Rafale or Typhoon. Hopefully, our AMCA will be effective. But in any case, we won't be dependent on Tejas otherwise we won't be spending 20 Bn $ for MMRCA.

I totally agree with you. Tejas is only successful as a technology demonstrator. India won't be relying on this plane. Otherwise, there won't be a need for MRCA. Your assessment of Tejas is right on the money.

As for people who are not Indians here, stop embarrass the Indians here about Tejas. If they admit that its a failed project, why are you guys still make a big deal out of it. Do not kick a man when he is down.

But India do have a lot of good imported weapons. Keep it going.