Tejas gets electronic warfare systems

[Black Widow]

I agree with those Indians who says close the Tejas and MCA program...

Do you agree with Markend Katju as well ..

 

[BATMAN]

What next? Is it now going to replace mi-21 ?

 

[skysthelimit]

After eight years of research and postponement, India’s first indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas, positioned at HAL Bangalore, has finally been fitted with electronic warfare (EW) systems.

Now, new test flights will happen with electronic warfare anytime during November or beginning of December. The 2,348 test flights of the LCA so far have not had electronic warfare. The new test flights will bring in new data and information for further development of the aircraft and the electronic systems.

Sources in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) told Deccan Herald that the LCA Prototype Vehicle-1 (PV-1) has now been fitted with a radar-warning receiver, a radar-warning jammer, laser warner, missile-approach warner, emitter, and a flare dispenser. The systems are now undergoing ground trials with aeronautical engineers simulating multiple threats to the aircraft and then examining its response.


The results of the ground trials will help fine-tune the electronic systems for the actual test flights. The ground trials will take about a fortnight or a month. So, test flights will be held in mid-November or December.

Engineers and scientists working on the project say the radar receivers and jammers will track enemy signals from air and ground, while the emitter will watch out for missile launches from ground. Systems to track missiles from air and enemy aircraft will also be part of the LCA. The entire system has been developed by both Indian and Israeli engineers and scientists.

The fitment of the electronic systems has an interesting history. For almost eight years, a section of the aeronautical community has been resisting its fitment, anxious that the add-ons may cause a first crash, which has never happened so far in the LCA’s test-flight history. They have been very keen on securing the operational clearance, initial as well as final from the Indian Air Force, even if the LCA did not have the electronic system.

Their reasoning was that once the IAF certified it as operationally worthy, they would have a successful product to showcase to the world. Also, the LCA has had a perfect record of test flights and no one wished to risk an add-on on the LCA that had not been tried. The idea was to defend the ‘zero crash’ record.

This was made known sometimes explicitly to engineers and scientists working on the electronic systems, who, however, had been pressing for very long that the systems ought to be fitted and trials conducted to be able to fine-tune them. This difference of perception on the LCA persisted for long, and one consequence was, no vehicle or version of the LCA was identified for many years to fit the equipment. This caused delay of over five years in launching the electronic systems on the LCA and to questioning of the very purpose and objective of building the systems.

After haggling for over eight years, it has been finally decided to instal the electronic systems on the LCA prototype Version-1. But there’s a catch here. The PV-1 has not flown for very long and has been parked in the hangar with later versions of the LCA undertaking the test flights. The PV-1, which began flights in around 2001-02, has completed 242 test flights after which it has been grounded. Now, there is a bit of anxiety about how an aircraft that has not done flights for long will perform with the new electronic warfare systems.

The confidence, however, is that the aircraft may perform well because its health has been under check almost daily and every department concerned will certify that all parts of the aircraft are flight-worthy. Without this certification, the PV-1 will not be allowed to fly. But once it passes the certification, the LCA PV-1 will become the first vehicle to fly with electronic warfare systems.

Sorry to say this, but all modern fighters carry Electronic Warfare systems - this is not a big deal. I am a big fan of LCA, but the fact that it carries an EWS, does not mean that it can act as a dedicated Electronic Warfare aircraft similar to the US EA-18G Growler.

What the LCA is getting is a Electronic Self-Protection suite. Take a look at the components - radar-warning receiver, radar-jammer, laser warner, missile-approach warner, emitter, flare dispenser - these are all basic, must-have requirements for any fighter.

For the knowledgable junta - does this mean that prior to PV-1, all LCA versions were flying without chaff & flare dispensers, or were they using a stand-alone system?

 

[sancho]

reported in 2011

Not really, that was only a silly article claiming LCA would be used in an Electronic warfare role, but the new reports are talking about the integration of EW systems into the LCA, to add it's self defence capabilities. Nothing unusual for a 4th gen fighter, but the first time a fully developed system will be integrated into LCA, which actually will bring it another step closer to the induction.

 

[Manindra]

Sorry to say this, but all modern fighters carry Electronic Warfare systems - this is not a big deal. I am a big fan of LCA, but the fact that it carries an EWS, does not mean that it can act as a dedicated Electronic Warfare aircraft similar to the US EA-18G Growler.

What the LCA is getting is a Electronic Self-Protection suite. Take a look at the components - radar-warning receiver, radar-jammer, laser warner, missile-approach warner, emitter, flare dispenser - these are all basic, must-have requirements for any fighter.

For the knowledgable junta - does this mean that prior to PV-1, all LCA versions were flying without chaff & flare dispensers, or were they using a stand-alone system?

LCA got EW suite for self protection not for dedicated EW role .

 

[janon]

Sorry to say this, but all modern fighters carry Electronic Warfare systems - this is not a big deal. I am a big fan of LCA, but the fact that it carries an EWS, does not mean that it can act as a dedicated Electronic Warfare aircraft similar to the US EA-18G Growler.

What the LCA is getting is a Electronic Self-Protection suite. Take a look at the components - radar-warning receiver, radar-jammer, laser warner, missile-approach warner, emitter, flare dispenser - these are all basic, must-have requirements for any fighter.

For the knowledgable junta - does this mean that prior to PV-1, all LCA versions were flying without chaff & flare dispensers, or were they using a stand-alone system?

The difference is that these systems will be fully integrated into the airframe of the LCA, and not carried externally like the Bisons. Only the MKI in the IAF arsenal has fully integrated EW/self protection suites. The upgraded mirages will also have that. The IAF made it a requirement of the Tejas that is should have a fully integrated suite, although such a feature was not available on any IAF fighter at that time. It goes to show how demanding IAF has been WRT the Tejas.

Only the most modern 4.5 gen fighters have jammers and other EW systems that don't need to be carried externally, and therefore free up hardpoints for weapons and fuel tanks, and also reduce RCS.

 

[sancho]

The difference is that these systems will be fully integrated into the airframe of the LCA, and not carried externally like the Bisons. Only the MKI in the IAF arsenal has fully integrated EW/self protection suites. The upgraded mirages will also have that. The IAF made it a requirement of the Tejas that is should have a fully integrated suite, although such a feature was not available on any IAF fighter at that time. It goes to show how demanding IAF has been WRT the Tejas.

Only the most modern 4.5 gen fighters have jammers and other EW systems that don't need to be carried externally, and therefore free up hardpoints for weapons and fuel tanks, and also reduce RCS.

That's not correct, even the MKI has the El/M-8222 jammer integrated in an external pod and the newer versions of the Flanker house them in new wingtip pods, which might be added to MKI with the coming upgrade.
It's also not too demanding for LCA to have these integrated, because that's common standard for a newly developed 4th gen fighter. Only older fighter types, that were upgraded to 4th gen capability (upgraded Flankers, Mirage M2K-5, F16 B52 onwards, or even our new Mig 29 UPG...) carry them internally now, while the EF, Rafale, or Gripen has such a featuer from the start.
The problem is, people tend to look at LCA "only" as a Mig 21 replacement, but that doesn't mean it has to be as capable as the Mig. Infact it means that it was aimed to be a similar small sized and agile, light class interceptor, but with 4th generation capabilities as the base!
It must have integrated EWS, just like multi mode radar, or multi role capabilities, which all are common things for fighters of this generation. So it's not actually IAF that set the bar too high, it's just Indian industry that failed to develop techs at common international standard.

 

[janon]

That's not correct, even the MKI has the El/M-8222 jammer integrated in an external pod and the newer versions of the Flanker house them in new wingtip pods, which might be added to MKI with the coming upgrade.
It's also not too demanding for LCA to have these integrated, because that's common standard for a newly developed 4th gen fighter. Only older fighter types, that were upgraded to 4th gen capability (upgraded Flankers, Mirage M2K-5, F16 B52 onwards, or even our new Mig 29 UPG...) carry them internally now, while the EF, Rafale, or Gripen has such a featuer from the start.
The problem is, people tend to look at LCA "only" as a Mig 21 replacement, but that doesn't mean it has to be as capable as the Mig. Infact it means that it was aimed to be a similar small sized and agile, light class interceptor, but with 4th generation capabilities as the base!
It must have integrated EWS, just like multi mode radar, or multi role capabilities, which all are common things for fighters of this generation. So it's not actually IAF that set the bar too high, it's just Indian industry that failed to develop techs at common international standard.

OK, so if the MKIs also don't carry an EW suite or jammer internally that further strengthens my point, that this will be a feature that is not available on any bird in the IAF.

During the time that the specs for Tejas mk1 was frozen, this requirement was exacting. IAF's frontline aircrafts at that time did not have such a capability. And since Tejas was only expected to form the lower end of our combat fleet, asking for such capabilities may not have been too wise a move, in terms of time taken for the project to be completed.

At this point in time though, it is necessary.

 

[sancho]

OK, so if the MKIs also don't carry an EW suite or jammer internally that further strengthens my point, that this will be a feature that is not available on any bird in the IAF.

That's what I said, because all those fighters were older designs, not newly developed 4th gen once. Even the MKI is just an upgraded Su 27 and integrated EWS wasn't part of that design, but when you develop a new fighter, you don't base it on the currently available standards, but on the standards that will be available, when the fighter will be inducted into service!
That's why LCA has composites and RAM coatings from the start, which are propper 4th to 4.5th gen standard features, again things that not even MKI had!
Another example, the F35 was develop to replace F16s, which obviously doesn't mean that the development was based on 4th to 4.5th gen standards, but on future 5th gen standards.

So, it doesn't matter what fighter will be replaced by the new fighter, or what technical level the currently available fighters have. Any new fighter is developed with future capabilities in mind!

And since Tejas was only expected to form the lower end of our combat fleet, asking for such capabilities may not have been too wise a move, in terms of time taken for the project to be completed.

As I said, that's a major missunderstanding, because it was never aimed to be a 3rd gen low end fighter, but a 4th gen low end fighter, that will be superior to the Migs that it replaces, but technically in the same generation with the fighters it will serve, or that it opposes (Mirage 2000-5, Mig 29SMT, F16 B52, Gripen C/D...)! So asking for 4th gen standard was not the problem, but DRDO and HAL made mistakes in promising to develop 4th gen engine and radar techs, that they couldn't develop on their own. ADA shouldn't had promised to design a 4th gen fighter, with such limited experience, the fighter should never had been considered as a carrier fighter... That's why the project faced such delays and not because of the technical requirements. Keep in mind that we could have got EL 2032 off the shelf for LCA if we wanted. A 4th gen MMR that we already use in IAF and IN fighter, so these kind of techs were available to us too, we just chose to develop them alone and failed, which caused the problems of an otherwise very good and important project.

 

[MehrotraPrince]

Even the MKI is just an upgraded Su 27

I would like to correct you on this part, Su-30MKI is not an derivative of Su-27, this is purely misconception.
Su-30MKI was developed from Su-37, which was basically a experimental aircraft with Canard, upgraded engines, new radar, a digital fly-by-wire flight-control system and two-dimensional (3D) vector nozzle.

Indirectly we can call Su-35 also to be derivative of Su-27 but that will not be correct, only problem is that for immature and UN-professional eye they may look same or just a derivative but not even 30% components are common to both.

For many years I too though that MKI is direct derivative of Su-27 series.

 

[Green Angel]

Tejas has no Future,wasting money on the project and praising each other,Fantastic ..............

 

[Storm Force]

Intergrated ew suites , ram coating, low rcs, American engines, isrseli jammers and core radar tech. Eastern and western weapons integration. The tejas sounds like a true mid fourth fighter and not some cheap desi replacement for mig 21

 

[shree835]

Tejas has no Future,wasting money on the project and praising each other,Fantastic ..............

Our money , out project... you will not understand the importance...why because... your country never made a simple motor...GOT IT.

 

[abhinavdutta]

Tejas has no Future,wasting money on the project and praising each other,Fantastic ..............

Well u better hope it doesn't. Limited Series Production is underway for 40 lca and then mk2 version will be put forth. Looking at the pace at which things are now moving I don't think your view is actually viable.

 

[JohnyD]

What made you such a Big Fan of IAF.

most IN and IAF officers look smart and dashing...mostly,they come from well to do family and most of them have brilliant academic records before joining the forces.. IAF guys do the best in the global Air forces when they are in control of the bird given to them....so if she is a big fan of IAF then the credit goes to her knowledge and respect for other countries' forces!