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Tata Deal With Lockheed Martin effect on PAF F16 fleet

Technically its good news for Pakistan, if India selects F-16's than PAF will be forced to chose a 5th Generation or an 4++ Gen Fighter for its fleet ..
I doubt that production will start by 2021 but it might delay as 2024-5 , and by than PAF will be retiring their old block F-shola , and inducting either J-31 , Typhoon , Su-35 or any J-series from China .. India getting F-16 with production line means billion of dollars will be given to US/LM and this will end or at least delay the plans for PAKFA from Russia that might make Russians to offer us Su-35's but its a big IF ..
so and If Paf goes for J-31 and wait for TF-X till 2030 .. than we are good to tackle any IAF fleet that include Rafale , F-16 , Su-30 as front line fighters ..
Hi in another way even if we are not getting su directly from Russia Chinese are buying su35 hence they can convince Russians to go in sleep mode wh Let they can give us j16 which they have already start building and the Russian interest in it will be to supply more engines for Pakistani jets
So it's something once our economy is on track 3-4 years down the line once cpec fully operational j series or even su series are formidable to get
The latest news is china is willing to finance 100% basha dam as world and Asian bank couldn't resist Indian pressure for supply of funds
Thx
 
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But a good news for PAF's development in the future.

Hi in another way even if we are not getting su directly from Russia Chinese are buying su35 hence they can convince Russians to go in sleep mode wh Let they can give us j16 which they have already start building and the Russian interest in it will be to supply more engines for Pakistani jets
So it's something once our economy is on track 3-4 years down the line once cpec fully operational j series or even su series are formidable to get
The latest news is china is willing to finance 100% basha dam as world and Asian bank couldn't resist Indian pressure for supply of funds
Thx
There is a will, there is a way.
 
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Bad news for PAF' Falcon fleet.

But a good news for PAF's development in the future.

But a good news for PAF's development in the future.

Its excellent news for China's perspective.

If PAF F-16s go kaput the PAF would be totally at the mercy of China.
 
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The only thing that just happened is that LM announced that IF India selects the F-16,
the the local manufacturer will be Tata.
If India selects Gripen, then this announcement means nothing.

Where is your partner?
You can't expect to win by laying back and chilling.
LM is making serious move with modi visiting US soon.
 
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Lets hope that India selects F16. With the Turkish and Emirati experiences in perspective, lets just say that we may already have "data" on the most advance F16s, block70 will have more goodies but it will be pretty much discovered in due course.

On the other hand a "Gripe-in" NG will be a somewhat stranger of a commodity to plan strategies against. So I just think that an F16in will be a blessing in disguise in more ways than the other way around.

By the way, i think that the west missed out on an opportunity to mint some serious money here. I am sure that if there was a three engined fighter out there, India would have come up with an acronym for its requirement and surely gone gone for it too and in numbers. Cheers.
 
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Where is your partner?
You can't expect to win by laying back and chilling.
LM is making serious move with modi visiting US soon.
IAF will go for BLK70 for sure.

And the relationship between India and UAE is quite close as well, UAE airforce send two F16 BLK60 to India for technology demonstration per USA request.

The BLK70 is a further updated version of UAE F16blk60.

Maybe will fit APG-83 AESA radar.

Where is your partner?
You can't expect to win by laying back and chilling.
LM is making serious move with modi visiting US soon.
It is the first time India buys fighter jets from USA.

The relationship between India and Russia will decline.

More USA weapon means more Yankee influence in India.
 
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Maybe will fit APG-83 AESA radar.

It is not maybe. APG-83 is confirmed.

REVEALED: Lockheed-Martin’s 3-Point F-16 Pitch To India
Shiv AroorNov 02 2016 9 15 am
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A significant jump in life after a service life extension of the F-16 Block 70 platform. Total Indian autonomy on who can buy made-in-India F-16s or be part of the resulting supply chain that will be governed entirely by India. A choice of avionics and kit currently under test on the F-35 family of fifth generation fighters. These are the three broad pitch points Lockheed-Martin puts forth as it looks to win India’s next big fighter contest — the Make In India Fighter (MIIF, unofficially). Lockheed-Martin, which had one of the most visible campaigns for India’s erstwhile M-MRCA contest, has clearly re-energised itself for what is, by all accounts, a much more significant piece of Indian pie this time, a contest reported first here on Livefist. As the world’s largest defence firm primes itself for a face-off against what could be a much smaller line-up than the six-horse M-MRCA, Livefist puts some questions to Abhay Paranjape, National Executive for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Business Development in India:

1. Outline the major contours of L-M’s Make in India (MII) F-16 Block 70 offer.
Lockheed Martin is offering India the exclusive opportunity to produce, operate and export F-16 Block 70 aircraft. Exclusive F-16 production in India would make India home to the world’s only F-16 production facility, a leading exporter of advanced fighter aircraft, and offer Indian industry the opportunity to become an integral part of the world’s largest fighter aircraft supply chain.

2. How does the current programme differ qualitatively from the M-MRCA programme, which also envisaged a major MII component?
Leveraging technologies from our 5th Generation fleet of aircraft, the F-16 Block 70 aircraft is the most technologically advanced F-16 ever offered. These advances include the APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array radar, a new high resolution center pedestal display, a new mission computer significantly enhancing processing and storage capacity, and a new 1 gigabit Ethernet databus. Further leveraging recent structural life extension efforts performed for the U.S. Air Force, the F-16 Block 70 will deliver a 50 percent or more increase in additional service life to 12,000 hours or beyond – a significant increase over competing aircraft. From an industrial program perspective, Lockheed Martin’s offer to move all future F-16 production to India is unprecedented, as it would place Indian industry at the center of the world’s most extensive fighter aircraft supply base. None of our competitors can offer that.

3. How does L-M address concerns that the F-16, albeit upgraded, is a legacy fighter at the end of its active life?
CwJluiEWYAIblwA.jpg
The F-16 is the most combat proven aircraft in history and the F-16 Block 70 is the most technologically advanced F-16 ever offered. The updated avionics suite leverages technologies developed as a part of Lockheed Martin’s efforts on our fleet of 5th Generation fighter aircraft. Major elements of these advanced avionics are included in major upgrades for multiple F-16 customers around the world and already slated for integration on more than 300 aircraft that will be flown for decades. These elements will also form the basis for upgrades and aircraft life extension for U.S. Air Force F-16 aircraft as they seek to operate their fleet for 30-plus years into the future. Global demand for new production F-16 aircraft also remains strong in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, and South America.

4. If the Indian government presses a single-engine stipulation, the F-16 could square off against the Gripen NG. What’s your pitch on how the F-16 Block 70 over the Gripen NG?
Lockheed Martin is the recognized leader in the design, development and manufacture of the world’s most technologically advanced fighter aircraft. The F-16 Block 70 aircraft leverages avionics technologies from our 5th Generation fighter aircraft to deliver an aircraft with unrivaled speed, agility, range, and payload. We offer proven, unmatched experience developing international fighter production capacity having previously established F-16 production lines in four countries and F-35 production lines in two countries. Our offer to establish exclusive F-16 production in India to meet worldwide demand for new F-16 aircraft is without precedent and the opportunity for Indian companies to play a major role in the industrial base that supplies necessary parts for a global fleet of more than 3,200 aircraft is unmatched.

5. Pakistan operates F-16s and looks to operate more. Would the future of Pakistan’s fleet be in Indian hands in the event of a successful MII F-16 programme?
As has always been the case, future F-16 production decisions would be subject to government-to-government discussions.

6. Sweden’s Saab has sweetened its Gripen pitch to India by offering Gallium-Nitride (GaN) radar technology as a spin-off. How does Lockheed-Martin propose to beef up its offering?
Lockheed Martin’s F-16 offer to India—the exclusive opportunity to produce, operate and export F-16 Block 70 aircraft—is without precedent. In addition to proposing the most technologically advanced F-16 ever offered to the Indian Air Force, exclusive F-16 production in India extends this Make in India opportunity beyond mere “assemble in India” or “manufacture in India,” to a long-term industrial opportunity for India. Our experience developing fighter production capacity around the world is unmatched. Lockheed Martin has previously established F-16 production lines in four countries and F-35 production lines in two countries. Our F-16 offer also includes the unmatched opportunity for Indian companies to play a major role in the industrial base that supplies parts for a global fleet of more than 3,200 aircraft. The long-term effect of establishing the sole F-16 production line in India will be to position Indian industry as a major contributor in the production of components and sub-components necessary to support the growing worldwide F-16 fleet.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2016/11/revealed-lockheed-martins-3-point-f-16-pitch-to-india.html
 
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Isn't this offer exclusively for F-16 Block 70. What does it have to do with other block F-16's being operated by other air forces.

Also the offer just started. To finalize it will take many years especially considering Indian bureaucracy it will take some years before the offer matures, if it at all matures.

MRCA competition for 126 fighters started in early 2000 and never materialized. IAF ended up ordering 36 jets instead of 126 however I doubt it was under MRCA. It was a government to government deal.
 
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http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/F-16-deal-turns-on-the-afterburners-for-Make-in-India

News hs been breaking that indian multi national giant TATA has signed contracts with Lockheed Martin to build the F16/70 in india .

Production should start around 2021-2022

No idea how many planes to be produced OR who for

The question I have FOR Pakistanis does this mean PAF should /will retire their falcons and cease looking for more FALCONS

Is this a serious threat to national security to give the Indians the locks and keys to the most advanced war plane in PAF and more...



HOW quicly can PAF REPLACE the F16 & at What cost
LOL

Isn't this offer exclusively for F-16 Block 70. What does it have to do with other block F-16's being operated by other air forces.

Also the offer just started. To finalize it will take many years especially considering Indian bureaucracy it will take some years before the offer matures, if it at all matures.

MRCA competition for 126 fighters started in early 2000 and never materialized. IAF ended up ordering 36 jets instead of 126 however I doubt it was under MRCA. It was a government to government deal.

more than a dozen of countries produce spare parts for f-16s. i doubt it ever going to be an issue for Pakistan
by the time india even start inducting f-16s ~ 2030 Pakistan would have started to phase them out (2030-2040) assuming we dont get more f-16s
 
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http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/F-16-deal-turns-on-the-afterburners-for-Make-in-India

News hs been breaking that indian multi national giant TATA has signed contracts with Lockheed Martin to build the F16/70 in india .

Production should start around 2021-2022

No idea how many planes to be produced OR who for

The question I have FOR Pakistanis does this mean PAF should /will retire their falcons and cease looking for more FALCONS

Is this a serious threat to national security to give the Indians the locks and keys to the most advanced war plane in PAF and more...



HOW quicly can PAF REPLACE the F16 & at What cost


I don't have answer to your questions, but on saying that i am really happy with this deal atleast this way PAF will be forced to abandon their love affair with this jet and work towards another model.
 
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Where is your partner?
You can't expect to win by laying back and chilling.
LM is making serious move with modi visiting US soon.

The time schedule says the partner should be presented during 2017.
You do not win the game, by showing up with the team the day before at the stadium.
You only need to be there in time for the game.
 
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The time schedule says the partner should be presented during 2017.
You do not win the game, by showing up with the team the day before at the stadium.
You only need to be there in time for the game.

Fair, but Aren't we in 2017 already.
We dont even hear Saab in talks with anyone in india, or is it ?
 
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On the other hand a "Gripe-in" NG will be a somewhat stranger of a commodity to plan strategies against. So I just think that an F16in will be a blessing in disguise in more ways than the other way around.

Gripen tend to win most engagements vs F-16s in exercises.
 
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I dont think its a threat at all reason being the only thing that can be a threat for Pakistan is sharing source codes of avionics ... IF India go ahead with this deal then it will be different machine with different avionics and I doubt that source codes will be shared ... furthermore, production in 2021 and 2022 is a big dream and near to impossible ...

It will take atleast 3 to 4 years to finalize the negotitaions (on fast track basis) then there will be transfer of production line another 2 to three years ... then there will be customization as per Indian need another 2 to 3 years ... so even at the best possible time frame no machine is coming untill 2024 and then further 2 years for training and induction ...

By that point of Pakistan would have been inducting fifth generation and thunder would have gone for MLU and hence would have replaced F16 as front line fighter in fourth generation cateogry ...

Your post is spot on, but let's not forget that the Americans did this from knee jerk perspective. There are other and better aircraft they could have offered to India. Instead, they offered the F-16 for obvious reasons. It has an economic and a political angle to it.

I personally applaud this move because I believe that Pakistan would be better off working on a domestic fighter with the help of China. This move has put a definite nail in the F-16 coffin for Pakistan. The F-16 is an off the shelf solution and a very sanction prone fighter for Pakistan. We did a very good thing by starting the JF-17 JV with China. This was our insurance policy against the F-16 and it has paid off.
 
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